paleo diet question

[Crankin]

I keep toying with this, too.
I wouldn't have a problem with giving up dairy, as long as I could find a sub for the good cheese I eat for snacks. I don't drink milk.
I *would* find it difficult to not have whole wheat grains some of the time. I have pretty much cut out most white flour stuff and I hardly eat dessert. But, I do eat Luna Bars for snacks on work days, because they are easy for me to eat in the car! I love good whole wheat bread or bagels. Don't eat tons of it, but...
Don't think I could give up wine.
About 8 years ago DH wanted to lose some weight before we went on vacation to AZ. I supported him by doing a low carb/low glycemic eating plan for 3 months. We weren't super strict, but we did pretty well, after the initial 2 week period that was very hard. I lost 5 lbs and DH lost 10. I don't work out at the same level as some of you, in that I am not "training" for events, but I do do something 6 days a week. Is it worth it? My weight is fairly stable, but I'd love to get it down another 2-3 lbs., so I have more wiggle room.

[OakLeaf]

Try Lära Bars, they are grain free. I avoid Luna bars because of the processed soy protein anyway.

I'd like to do more raw and less grain, but not make a radical change all at once. Ack, I don't do New Year's resolutions! Why can't I be thinking of this last month or next month.

[lph]

I'd like to do more raw and less grain, but not make a radical change all at once. Ack, I don't do New Year's resolutions! Why can't I be thinking of this last month or next month.

Because most changes that stick aren't radical resolution-type ones anyway. You just happen to have the time to think them over around now.
I like to have New Year's plans rather than resolutions. As in, in 2012 I'd like to try x, y or z. I can start today or tomorrow or in May or September, or later, or never. Or a little now, and a little more later...

[malkin]

It always seems to me that the point of any Diet with a Name is to sell books and other products.

[Sky King]

Personally, I'm ok with raw dairy but my body does not like coconut flour or brown rice. I think I can digest gluten well enough, but it triggers crazy cravings and food obsession for me...so I avoid it. Sugar too (for the same reasons). What I haven't yet tried are legumes - I'll give those a shot in January and see how I do.

While I think the Paleo Diet is just another way for people to make money....
I wanted to point out that you may be allergic to coconut. I am horribly allergic to coconut and to soy.

I have to note that the bike hermit would die on the paleo diet and I lost 25 pounds and kept if off for 30 years once I started eating like the bike hermit - which is primarily veggies, fruit and -GASP - Pasta. We eat meat maybe once a week and rarely eat meat when bike touring.

Again, eating a balanced diet of healthy foods goes a long way, now if I can cut down on my beer intake...

[uk elephant]

For those of you surprised at how well your cat/dog does on the high protein diets, can I just point out that these are carnivorous species evolved to eat other animals not plants. Cats are more obligate carnivores than dogs, they do not have the enzymes necessary to fully digest starch. Humans on the other hand are evolutionarily omnivores, like pigs, evolved to eat anything available both animal and vegetable in origin. The trick is finding the right balance. And from the little experence I have of anthropology, I don't think paleolithic people necessarily got it right all the time either seeing as many of the remains found show signs of disease, malnutrition, stunted growth...

[GLC1968]

While I think the Paleo Diet is just another way for people to make money....
I wanted to point out that you may be allergic to coconut. I am horribly allergic to coconut and to soy.

I have to note that the bike hermit would die on the paleo diet and I lost 25 pounds and kept if off for 30 years once I started eating like the bike hermit - which is primarily veggies, fruit and -GASP - Pasta. We eat meat maybe once a week and rarely eat meat when bike touring.

Again, eating a balanced diet of healthy foods goes a long way, now if I can cut down on my beer intake...

It may be a coconut sensitivity, true. I'm fine with coconut oil and shredded or flaked coconut, but when you eat those things, it's typically in really small quantities. Coconut flour is so processed into something not even resembling a coconut and when consumed, it's in a much more highly concentrated quantity. That might be why it gets to me, I don't know. It's easy enough to avoid though, so I don't sweat it.

The paleo diet has a name purely because that's what someone decided to call it and it stuck. There is no official licence on the word like there is on South Beach or Atkins or Weight Watchers and there are no "paleo" branded foods on the shelves of your supermarket. In fact, depending on which books you read, there are lots of names for it (Primal, Neanderthin, Paleo Diet, Paleo Solution, etc) so I really don't think it's a marketing tactic. Who exactly is making money? Bloggers? Cookbook authors? Somehow, I doubt they are going to retire on their salaries.

I should also point out that while I love it and how it makes me feel about food, I recognize that this diet is not a miracle or anything. I mean, if you are celiac and didn't know it, then the switch may seem like a miracle, I'm sure. But for those of us who chose to eat this way for non-medical reasons, it's just another way of eating. No different than vegan or vegetarian or any other chosen way to eat. What I don't understand is why there is such an obvious bias against the diet from non-paleo people. I know that most paleo proponents are super gung-ho and highly annoying, but that is no reason to dismiss the way someone chooses to eat.

Anyway, I'm not directing this at anyone here in particular, just my general observations. It's why I hesitate to even use the word paleo in casual conversation anymore!

[MojoGrrl]

Interesting about the dogs. My elderly dog has an irritable bowel and I worry about her getting enough protein on the bulky diet that she seems to need.

I have a cat who had terrible irritable bowel issues when I first got her, so I put her on a raw meat diet. Cleared that problem right up! These days I'm too lazy to keep up the raw diet but I only feed her canned food that is all meat, no grain or fillers. It costs a lot but she does okay on it.

[goldfinch]

I have a cat who had terrible irritable bowel issues when I first got her, so I put her on a raw meat diet. Cleared that problem right up! These days I'm too lazy to keep up the raw diet but I only feed her canned food that is all meat, no grain or fillers. It costs a lot but she does okay on it.

I think I'll talk to my vet about options again. My dog is very eldery, 16 years old, and so far seems to need a very bulky diet or she has issues. I feed her a fair amount of canned pumpkin which she really like and seems to help. But she has been struggling again lately.

[MojoGrrl]

I think I'll talk to my vet about options again. My dog is very eldery, 16 years old, and so far seems to need a very bulky diet or she has issues. I feed her a fair amount of canned pumpkin which she really like and seems to help. But she has been struggling again lately.

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

[shootingstar]

It's why I hesitate to even use the word paleo in casual conversation anymore!

Labels for a diet aren't always useful, since sometimes people cannot faithfullly follow a 'type' of diet for the next.....few decades, unless they are celiac or diabetic, etc.

Even the vegetarians I know face to face, have modified their diets over the years.

[goldfinch]

I don't know so much about feeding dogs, but I found tons of info about rawfeeding cats on the internet. There is a Yahoo newsgroup "Rawcats" and there is a companion one, "Rawdogs" or some name like that. It seems like a lot of people have negative experiences with vets regarding raw diets: a lot of vets disagree with them and push the commercial food, particularly the "prescription" diets. I think the pet food industry (including the medical "prescription" Science Diet) is just as bad as Big Pharma in terms of influencing the profession. I am a firm believer that animals should be fed as they are evolved to eat, and luckily my vet was supportive of putting Little Kitty on a raw diet.

Unfortunately, dogs were evolved to be dogs, with the hand of man substantially involved. I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her. I started here:

To begin with, the concept of “evolutionary nutrition” ignores the simple fact that taxonomy and phylogeny are not destiny, nor do they reliably predict the specific details of a species’ biology, including its nutritional needs. Sure, dogs are in the order Carnivora, but so are giant pandas, which are almost exclusively herbivorous. Functionally, dogs are omnivores or facultative carnivores, not obligate carnivores, and they are well-suited to an omnivorous diet regardless of their taxonomic classification or ancestry.

Domestic dogs did branch off from a wolf ancestor, and current DNA evidence suggests this occurred some 100,000-135,000 years ago.2,3 Though the data are unclear as to what morphologic or ecological changes might have occurred following this initial divergence, and while it is likely that there was much ongoing genetic exchange between dogs and wolves even after they diverged, it is still the case that dogs have not been wolves for a very long time. However, a distinct phenotypic divergence of dogs and wolves followed the development of more sedentary agricultural habits by many human groups some 10-15,000 years ago, which placed new selection pressures on our canines companions.31 Since then numerous anatomic and behavioral changes that have occurred first as a result of living with humans and sharing our food. And even more dramatic changes have been wrought on dogs in the last about 3000 years as a consequence of intensive selective breeding. Domestic dogs exhibit many features of neoteny, the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood. They have smaller and less robust skulls and dentition, and numerous features of their skeleton, GI tract, and other anatomic structures are significantly different from wolves.

* * *



http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...make-you-barf/

Cats, I don't have a clue.

[Owlie]

It makes more sense that cats would benefit from a raw diet, since they're obligate carnivores.
I imagine it's one of those things: Some dogs probably do quite well on a raw diet (of some kind) if its human does their homework, and some may not. Depends on the dog--I've met one that will turn its nose up at meat and will go absolutely crazy for fruits and vegetables.

[MojoGrrl]

I am still not convinced at all that raw feeding is appropriate for dogs, especially my elderly dog, but I need to read more on what might be best for her.

Yeah, like I said, I don't know so much about dogs. I know dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on all kinds of different food, whereas cats absolutely need meat. I don't think dogs need an all-raw diet, but I do think that 99% of commercial pet food is crap. Neither dogs or cats should eat a diet of dried kibble; it resembles nothing in nature they are evolved to eat. My mom feeds her dog a home made diet based on a mix she buys commercially and cooks with water (it's like an oatmeal kind of stuff, with dried veggies and stuff in it), and adds some veggies (canned green beans), cooked meat (usually ground turkey), and raw eggs. He's a very spry and healthy 12-year-old dog.

[TsPoet]

Yeah, like I said, I don't know so much about dogs. I know dogs are not obligate carnivores and can live on all kinds of different food, whereas cats absolutely need meat. I don't think dogs need an all-raw diet, but I do think that 99% of commercial pet food is crap. Neither dogs or cats should eat a diet of dried kibble; it resembles nothing in nature they are evolved to eat. My mom feeds her dog a home made diet based on a mix she buys commercially and cooks with water (it's like an oatmeal kind of stuff, with dried veggies and stuff in it), and adds some veggies (canned green beans), cooked meat (usually ground turkey), and raw eggs. He's a very spry and healthy 12-year-old dog.

Unless your dog has been off raw too long and is sensitive, it is the way to go. But, dogs also need veggies - their stomachs aren't as used to processing veggies - so you need to grind the veggies up. The bones are also important, meat, veggies, bones all ground up. I feed my guys raw for dinner and kibble for breakfast. This makes me feel like I've covered the bases.
I have a 12-15 year old mutt (my avatar is really old!), he was dragging and looking old and I was concerned for him - so nearly 4 years ago I investigated, then started feeding raw. He acts younger now, 4 years later, than he did before raw! His fur is better, as is my shiba-x fur.
My IG has perfect teeth - IGs don't have good teeth - I honestly believe its the raw.
I have lots of friends who use this site when picking food.
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/
My guys ether get Evo or Blue Buffalo, and since i primarily feed raw beef, they get salmon or lamb dry food.
I tried making my own raw, and that didn't work for me (yuck!). So, I investigated raw food and, if you live in the Pacific NW, this stuff is great.
http://www.columbiarivernaturalpetfoods.com/
wish they had more veggie options.