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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3

    Is it the Indians or the arrows (new bikes vs. old bikes)?

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    I bought an old '93 Bianchi, steel-frame, 7 speed road bike from my sister-in-law about 3 years ago so I could ride with my very experienced friend. She rides a custom-built steel-frame 9 speed. She always rides away from me whenever we climb & she keeps telling me "it's not the arrows, it's the Indian". We started spin classes a year ago & I've definitely seen improvement in my performance, but she still shells me on the climbs. Yesterday we did a group ride with the ladies at our spinning gym. Every one of them had $5000+ 10-speed road bikes & once again I was seriously shelled on the climbs & way behind by the end of the ride. I only paid $200 for my old girl & I can't help feeling that maybe in this case it is the arrows. Does it make a difference what bike you're riding or do I really just suck?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Newport, RI
    Posts
    3,821
    I have 3 bikes, and one of them is much faster than the others. Same old Indian. Must be the arrows.

    But, the "arrow" is not necessarily the whole bike. You can probably make that bike noticeably faster with just new tires, and better wheels can make a whole lot of difference.
    '02 Eddy Merckx Fuga, Selle An Atomica
    '85 Eddy Merckx Professional, Selle An Atomica

    '10 Soma Double Cross DC, Selle An Atomica

    Slacker on wheels.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Abq, NM
    Posts
    305
    It's not about the bike, and you don't suck. Unless the ole' girl weighs 35 lbs and doesn't fit.

    Or your tires are flat. But I've tried that excuse- it doesn't fly.
    Lookit, grasshopper....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    I think it could go either way. Could be they have an advantage in terms of gears that are better for climbing. Could be they are just in better shape, or better suited physically for climbing and generally riding fast. Could be their bikes are just lighter and made to go faster.

    Best way to tell -- borrow one of their bikes, or test ride a new one at an LBS, and see how it goes.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    492
    I believe that if you have two equally fit people and one is on a heavier bike, that person will be slower, especially on hills, than the person on the lighter bike. If being slower on hills bothers you, and it seems to, and you aren't in a position to look at new, lighter weight bikes, a new wheelset can make a significant difference. If you do a search on this forum you can find many threads on that topic. The other possible solution is to train so much you are stronger than the other riders

    I was fortunate enough to be able to buy a new carbon bike late last year. I am faster than I was, but one of my riding friends on an entry level all aluminum bike is still just as fast or faster because she is stronger than I am. I ride just as much or more, but she has always been very athletic and seems to have more muscle mass than I do, at least that is my story, and I'm sticking to it


    Grits

    2010 Trek 5.2 Madone WSD, SI Diva Gel Flow
    2002 Terry Classic, Terry Liberator

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,942
    I've had bikes that were slow downhill, so I will vouch that sometimes it is the bike. It could even be the bike fit...for all you know, the bike isn't the right size or isn't set up in a way that will allow you to be your most efficient. Have you been fitted for the one you're riding at a local bike shop?

    But sometimes its the rider.

    If you guys are about the same size, why not swap for one hill and try? If nothing else, it will be a good experience. I had no idea how uncomfortable my first bike was until I went on vacation and rented one elsewhere. Wow, what a difference!

    "I never met a donut I didn't like" - Dave Wiens

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    1,942
    Oh, and welcome to TE!! Good to meet you.

    "I never met a donut I didn't like" - Dave Wiens

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3
    Thanks everybody for the replies! I guess I just needed reaffirmation of what I already knew. We are about the same size & I tried suggesting we switch bikes for a day, but she made an excuse that it wouldn't make any difference! I didn't feel like arguing with her. I didn't know about changing my wheel set out though, thanks for the advice. When you have to struggle with your ego that much on a ride, sometimes it makes me not want to deal with it, but I also realize that's part of the zen that comes from riding & ironically that's exactly why I do it. I have nothing against pushing myself to become stronger, just sometimes it can be demoralizing & I start to question "is this fun?"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Whitmore Lake, Michigan
    Posts
    920
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombshelter View Post
    Thanks everybody for the replies! I guess I just needed reaffirmation of what I already knew. We are about the same size & I tried suggesting we switch bikes for a day, but she made an excuse that it wouldn't make any difference! I didn't feel like arguing with her. I didn't know about changing my wheel set out though, thanks for the advice. When you have to struggle with your ego that much on a ride, sometimes it makes me not want to deal with it, but I also realize that's part of the zen that comes from riding & ironically that's exactly why I do it. I have nothing against pushing myself to become stronger, just sometimes it can be demoralizing & I start to question "is this fun?"
    I believe it to be a combination of the bike and the rider also as many have attested to here. I know for certain that one of my bikes is faster and climbs better than the other. That being said, your commentary about your friend not wanting to switch bikes with you for you to try her's out is a bit telling in itself. I question if this person is a friend, because a friend would want to help a friend along with coaching you up a hill instead of leaving you behind. I imagine that some people could be possessive about their equipment but still, even swapping bikes out for a couple of hills does not seem unreasonable.

    Challenging yourself by trying to ride up to a different skill level is fine but continuosly getting smoked by others would be discouraging. You might want to try riding with other groups of people on occasion and you'll know right off where your comfort level is and whether riding with superior riders is helping or hindering you. Riding should be fun and no, you don't suck - you're out there riding a bike and trying to get better at it. With all your training it sounds like you are.
    Bike Writer

    http://pedaltohealth.blogspot.com/

    Schwinn Gateway unknown year
    Specalized Expedition Sport Low-Entry 2011

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    I don't think I would have fun riding with someone who told me repeatedly that she is better than me and nothing I do will make me improve.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    where the wind comes sweeping down the plain
    Posts
    5,251
    Quote Originally Posted by ny biker View Post
    I don't think I would have fun riding with someone who told me repeatedly that she is better than me and nothing I do will make me improve.
    that's the truth!

    I definitely climb much slower on my steel Bianchi than on my lightweight carbon tri bike- even tho the Bianchi has better climbing gears- it's just heavier and that makes a difference. But that being said- I'm a sucky climber. I can descend like a crazy woman- but climbing is torture for me (even when I was lighter climbing was difficult).
    Check out my running blog: www.turtlepacing.blogspot.com

    Cervelo P2C (tri bike)
    Bianchi Eros (commuter/touring road bike)

    1983 Motobecane mixte (commuter/errand bike)
    Cannondale F5 mountain bike

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
    Posts
    5,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Tri Girl View Post
    that's the truth!

    I definitely climb much slower on my steel Bianchi than on my lightweight carbon tri bike- even tho the Bianchi has better climbing gears- it's just heavier and that makes a difference. But that being said- I'm a sucky climber. I can descend like a crazy woman- but climbing is torture for me (even when I was lighter climbing was difficult).
    I will never be a good climber, and I know there will always be people who are faster than me no matter what I do. That doesn't bother me at all. But it doesn't mean that I can't ever get better by changing something about the bike.

    - Gray 2010 carbon WSD road bike, Rivet Independence saddle
    - Red hardtail 26" aluminum mountain bike, Bontrager Evoke WSD saddle
    - Royal blue 2018 aluminum gravel bike, Rivet Pearl saddle

    Gone but not forgotten:
    - Silver 2003 aluminum road bike
    - Two awesome worn out Juliana saddles

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Oslo, Norway
    Posts
    4,066
    what they've all said - a lighter, stiffer bike is easier to move uphill, and light enough gearing makes it possible to keep your cadence down and not blow up going uphill, all of which will make it more fun and inspire you to try harder up hills... but fitness still trumps a lot of this. Experience does play a part too, knowing at what level to keep your effort. And some people are just better climbers than others, body weight is often important. I'm a reasonably good climber, but I'm pretty useless on the flats, it's a bit limited how much power I can produce.

    But the line between keeping up and not keeping up is pretty fine, so just because they ride away from you on the hills doesn't mean you're a much slower rider unless you're continually barely able to keep up no matter what. On club rides it's pretty common to wait and regroup at the top of hills.
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

    1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
    2008 white Nakamura Summit Custom mtb/Terry Falcon X
    2000 Schwinn Fastback Comp road bike/Specialized Jett

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    324
    Wow, I don't know that I would enjoy riding with someone less than supportive - takes the fun out of it for me.

    There are many factors and these seem to come to light when going up hill.

    Rider - some people are better at flats, some at hills, some at downhills. Much depends on what you enjoy, your physical characteristics. Back when, I was okay on flats and such, not necessarily fast relative to the regular friends I rode with. But once we started going uphill, I was in the upper group - I trained for hills and, I guess, my muscle group and weight were more suited to that.

    Bike - Given your current state, you would see a difference with a lighter bike. Would it be enough to stay up with the group - can't really say. Many factors on a bike - state of tune (chain, bearings); gearing (are you running out of gears, are you spinning or mashing up hills); tires (I've seen night and day difference just in tires); do you like the bike (the more you like/love your bike, the faster one seems to go - at least for me).

    Compare against yourself not others. We are all different, different styles, different strengths. I stopped comparing to others because of that. No matter how much I trained, I could not pull at the speeds some of my friends could, but I did track my own progress and I could see I had improved, say, from point A to point B in time.

    On the heavy bike note - My road bike is a 20 pounder and is a race frame. Very fun to ride. My commuter is probably a 30 pounder AND is also fun to ride. I have had guys on light road frames blast by me on the start of my final climb home (about 100' in half mile) only to start slogging about half way up and I go by in my normal, steady RPM at my pace. They either failed to shift or just did not anticipate the effect of the variable pitch of the road and went at it too hard, too soon. I've also been totally left in the dust.

    Good luck in your training and improvements - you will get stronger and faster. Find some supportive friends/groups to ride with, that makes so much difference.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    '89 Bridgestone Radac Dura-Ace | Specialized Ruby, 143
    '92 Bridgestone MB-1 | Specialized Ruby, 143
    '92 Bridgestone MB-1.2 (balloon tire bike) | Specialized Ruby, 143
    '93 Bridgestone MB-5 (my SUB*) | Specialized Lithia, 143


    My blog: Portlandia Pedaler (at Blogger)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Newport, RI
    Posts
    3,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombshelter View Post
    Thanks everybody for the replies! I guess I just needed reaffirmation of what I already knew. We are about the same size & I tried suggesting we switch bikes for a day, but she made an excuse that it wouldn't make any difference! I didn't feel like arguing with her. I didn't know about changing my wheel set out though, thanks for the advice. When you have to struggle with your ego that much on a ride, sometimes it makes me not want to deal with it, but I also realize that's part of the zen that comes from riding & ironically that's exactly why I do it. I have nothing against pushing myself to become stronger, just sometimes it can be demoralizing & I start to question "is this fun?"
    She sounds like a piece of work. I recommend riding alone at least some of the time. It is more Zen; easier to get and stay in your zone. As soon as you ask the question "is this fun" the answer is already "no", because when it is fun, you're not thinking about it. Riding your bike shouldn't be demoralizing, because every ride, you're getting more fit, stronger, faster, healthier. That should be great for your morale! So, it seems the problem is not the bike, or the rider, it's the partner, IMO.
    '02 Eddy Merckx Fuga, Selle An Atomica
    '85 Eddy Merckx Professional, Selle An Atomica

    '10 Soma Double Cross DC, Selle An Atomica

    Slacker on wheels.

 

 

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