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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    95

    Ready to Buy a LOOK 585, Overlap Concern?

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    I am close to pulling the trigger on a 2010 Look 585 Optimum XSmall, without riding it. I have read nothing but great things about this frame but as it is on the other coast, I am unable to test ride it. Nor are there any dealers anywhere in the area.

    The frame geometry looks like a perfect fit with a slightly shorter top tube and taller head tube. However, I am concerned about toe overlap as the front center is 56.7 which I think is on the short side.

    Anyone hear ride this particular frame size who can comment?

    Thanks much.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    6,043
    This topic comes up fairly regularly. You might do a search on TE about it.

    While I think there are those among us who consider it a dealbreaker of an issue, many of us work around it with success. I have overlap on all of my bikes. So long as I'm careful at slow speeds, I'm okay.
    Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Continue to learn. Appreciate your friends. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.

    --Mary Anne Radmacher

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Madison WI
    Posts
    280
    I, too have overlap. I live with it! I'm learning to lean when I turn vs using the steering. Or steer in a turn but not pedal too much.
    Alison - mama of 2 (8yo and 6yo)
    2009 Independent Fabrication steel Crown Jewel SE
    1995 trek 800 steel MTV

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    220
    I agree that toe overlap should not be a major concern.With any turn taken at speed, you won't really be pedaling anyway (or even turning the handle bars) so it really isn't an issue. You know the drill, weight your outside pedal, lean bike into turn, and voila, turn navigated with foot nowhere near the front wheel. The only time I even remember I have toe overlap is when turning from a complete stop. Then I need to pedal with the handlebars turned and I have clipped my foot (at like 1mph, no problem). And how often does one turn from a stop?

    And for what it's worth, I have much less toe overlap on my LOOK 585 than my previous road bike.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Troutdale, OR
    Posts
    2,600
    I almost bought one. It is a very nice bike and handles very well. I didn't mind the overlap. Rarely is it a problem. And I'm sure everyone who has the XS get used to it. Only reason I didn't buy one is $$$. I'm very cheap.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bedford, MA
    Posts
    212
    I had a Lemond with toe overlap and it drove me crazy. I tried to be careful and aware, but it still bothered me. I sold it -- because of that and it was a tad too big for me. I have a two small Fujis and a Luna that don't have the overlap. I think it is a personal thing, about how much that kind of issue will bother you.
    "Why walk when you can bike?"
    Luna Eclipse
    Fuji RC Supreme
    Fuji Touring
    Centurion Le Mans
    All have Selle SMP TRK saddles.
    My blog: www.thepolkadotjournal.blogspot.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Uncanny Valley
    Posts
    14,501
    Full disclosure: I don't have toe overlap, although when I get my next pair of shoes, they'll be larger, and I probably will - I have less than 2 mm clearance now.

    But this guy (Martyn Ashton) has toe overlap, which he mentions here (the trials video has been around before, but I never posted a link to the text, which I had to dig for).

    I certainly can't ride like that and don't expect most people to - and Ashton mentions the toe overlap because it was something that even he had to adjust to - but it's an indication of how little a problem it needs to be.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Abq, NM
    Posts
    305
    Everything I have ever ridden has had toe overlap. Not a deal breaker. You will be fine.
    Lookit, grasshopper....

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West MI
    Posts
    4,259
    My bike has toe overlap. I actually discovered it on maybe my 2nd ride, when I was a noob and it could have led to a fall. I will probably have this issue on any bike I ride. I'm just aware of it and am extra careful on slow, sharper turns. It's really rare that I even encounter that scenario, though.
    Kirsten
    run/bike log
    zoomylicious


    '11 Cannondale SuperSix 4 Rival
    '12 Salsa Mukluk 3
    '14 Seven Mudhoney S Ti/disc/Di2

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Marin County CA
    Posts
    5,936
    Wow this is like a toe overlap confessional...

    I have it on my Pegoretti and the only time I ever notice it is climbing slowly or making a tight u turn. It's very easy to work around.
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    95
    Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. My first bike (Cannondale) had no overlap, second bike did (Ritchey) and my present bike (Giant TCR) does not.

    I'm a long time rider and I do know the drill...but still I find overlap disconcerting. No, I don't need to do figure 8s at the end of my cul-de-sac but once I did need to do an emergency U-turn in the middle of a busy steet and just about killed myself. If your foot rubs the tire, a little scary, but if your foot ends up on the other side of the wheel....I hope you're wearing your helmet. I sold the Ritchey for that reason only.

    I rode a brand new Felt ZW (small) yesterday (woman's model) and it had no overlap and the frame fit me well. Unfortunately, the carbon felt no different at all from my aluminum frame. Not sure if it is the quality of the carbon, the cheaper wheels or whatever...but if I am going to upgrade from aluminum to carbon then I want to feel some of that smoothness I keep reading about. The Felt looked nice and fit well....but just "felt" like everything else I've ridden.

    So...back to the Look 585 Optimum. From the pics I've seen and the front-center dimensions I've seen it does appear I will probably have overlap. The frame gets rave reviews is supposed to be one of the best anywhere and I'm getting a very good price....guess I'll have to consider the trade-off.

    Thanks again.

    Steve

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    98
    I've had many many bikes over the years (almost 30 now? ) with varying degrees of toe overlap. I've learned it's not a binary thing: you have it or you don't. Instead I see it as a gradient: a little toe overlap, a little more, or a lot?

    If my toe just brushes the tire at the closest point, and overlaps, say, a quarter inch or so, it's usually no big deal and I have few problems.

    On the other hand if I have a good inch or more overlap, then it's harder to live with. I had a bike like that and the difference isn't only in the overlap distance - it's also in the arc length (of my pedal stroke) during which interference is possible: it's a longer arc when there's more overlap. So I found interference during a bigger portion of my pedal stroke; my shoe spends more time in the "overlap zone" each pedal stroke. This means I spend more time overlapped and potentially unable to correct my steering.

    Nevertheless I never crashed on that bike; it was just more annoying (and occasionally scary!).

    Naturally there are in-between bikes too.

    '09 Trek 7.3 FX hybrid / Jett 155mm
    '09 Cervelo P3 TT / looking
    '11 Cervelo S3 road / Selle Royal Seta 155mm
    Ischial tuberosities: 140mm center to center

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by dianne_1234 View Post
    I've had many many bikes over the years (almost 30 now? ) with varying degrees of toe overlap. I've learned it's not a binary thing: you have it or you don't. Instead I see it as a gradient: a little toe overlap, a little more, or a lot?

    If my toe just brushes the tire at the closest point, and overlaps, say, a quarter inch or so, it's usually no big deal and I have few problems.

    On the other hand if I have a good inch or more overlap, then it's harder to live with. I had a bike like that and the difference isn't only in the overlap distance - it's also in the arc length (of my pedal stroke) during which interference is possible: it's a longer arc when there's more overlap. So I found interference during a bigger portion of my pedal stroke; my shoe spends more time in the "overlap zone" each pedal stroke. This means I spend more time overlapped and potentially unable to correct my steering.

    Nevertheless I never crashed on that bike; it was just more annoying (and occasionally scary!).

    Naturally there are in-between bikes too.
    Dianne, you are right on...good points. And thanks for sharing your Ischial Tuberosity info.

 

 

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