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Thread: Gunnar Bikes :)

  1. #16
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    I have to say that, so far, I have been impressed at the amount of time and detail that my fitter and his counterpart at Waterford are putting into the initial design of my Sport. Gunnars are quite moderately priced when compared to Waterford frames, but the quality of the designing process seems quite intense. I am certainly learning more about bike design in this process!

    Friday I head to my LBS for a fitting. They have a "fit bike" there which will allow my fitter to dial in the settings for the initial design for my frame with which to start my fitting. Unless my deposit turns out to be much higher than anticipated, I will place my money down in less than a week (or the following week if it is higher than expected).



    I am excited

  2. #17
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    The fitting went well yesterday. As I reported in another thread, Waterford/Gunnar is recommending a custom size for me, which does represent an upcharge, but I think it will be worth it. While I am going to call my fitters counterpart at Waterford Monday to get the sales pitch to understand why they recommend this, I already have some information from my fitter on the primary differences between my custom size and the stock Crosshair sizes they have.

    It comes down several things - head angle, TTT length, chain stay length, wheelbase and tire size. No Crosshair size has a short enough top tube for me, and the Sport that does have a short enough TTT has problems in other dimensions. I also want v-pull brakes and 26 inch wheels and these are part of it but of course the head angle and TTT length are more important. In my fitters professional opinion, Gunnar does not have a stock size that will fit me without odd things having to be done to the bike to make it fit. Considering what he was able to do with my LHT, I trust his opinion. Gunnar strongly recommends the 26 inch wheels for me - which is comforting considering they didn't know that was my preference.

    When I call Waterford Monday, I am going to ask how my handling will differ between the LHT and the Gunnar with the noted changes. They were told that I want a light-as-possible long-distance bike that won't be loaded with any real weight. The rake on the Roadie fork is greater than what is on my LHT, but the head angle is steeper, and the chain stay length and wheel base are both significantly shorter so that probably balances out the change in rake. I sound like I know what I am talking about

    While a fit bike isn't a real bike, it felt pretty good yesterday, so that is quite hopeful. I am looking forward to my conversation with them Monday as I learn more about some of the choices they made for the design of my bike. It is fantastic that I have direct access to my frame designer - I do not want any questions remaining once I sign off on the design in the way or justifying the expense. I know there are a lot more expensive custom frames out there, and of course there are no guarantees until I get the completed bike out on the road - in the end I am learning a lot about bikes and bike design. That is a good thing

  3. #18
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    Ask Waterford if they can tell you what the "trail" is on their proposedd design. That number will help you figure out how the bike is likely to handle.
    Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Continue to learn. Appreciate your friends. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.

    --Mary Anne Radmacher

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by indysteel View Post
    Ask Waterford if they can tell you what the "trail" is on their proposed design. That number will help you figure out how the bike is likely to handle.
    Thanks - Jonathan may have even mentioned it when we spoke this afternoon but I didn't note it though I got the others. I am going to start a spreadsheet that compares all of this between the Trek, my LHT and what I know of the Gunnar design. I really like that I have direct access to the frame designer, and that I need to sign off on the design (literally) before I am committed to it

    Added: I have started my spreadsheet, and I now see just why the Trek was too large for me, even the new "XS" version of the 2011 7.6 FX WSD would be too long for me...it is helpful to be able to compare the numbers even if I don't fully understand what I am looking at.
    Last edited by Catrin; 01-15-2011 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #20
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    You learn a lot when you start shopping and comparing bikes, don't you? Congrats on your new Gunnar, Catrin. I think shopping for a bike is almost as much fun as riding it. No wonder some of us hoard bikes
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  6. #21
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    Trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Chick View Post
    You learn a lot when you start shopping and comparing bikes, don't you? Congrats on your new Gunnar, Catrin. I think shopping for a bike is almost as much fun as riding it. No wonder some of us hoard bikes
    Yep - and I was quite shocked to see how different the measurements were for my Trek 7.6 FX WSD when compared with my LHT. No WONDER the LHT fit me so much better than the Trek - and the LHT is by no means a WSD! From what I can tell, Gunnar does not have a stock size for either Sport nor Crosshairs that come close to what they are recommending for me.

    I just returned from my LBS where I got a few more of the recommended measurements to help me have an intelligent conversation tomorrow with Waterford when I call for the sales pitch and the difference in handling between the proposed custom design and my LHT.

    I did specifically ask for the trail. They are recommending an upgraded Waterford road fork, and it has a rake of 50 with a trail of 54.7. I cannot find the trail on Surly's site for the LHT.

    I found that the trail on my old Trek was 7 cm, while I am assuming that the trail measurement for the Gunnar is in mm, so it would be 5.47 cm on the Gunner. I wish I could find a comparable measurement for the LHT. Can't find the rake for the Trek, but the rake for the LHT is 45, compared with the rake of 50 for the Gunnar. I do understand what the rake is.

    Edited: I did find a site that explains trail and rake (and relationship with head angle and wheelbase) - and it explains that as the rake increases, trail decreases. That makes sense to me, and the rake is certainly increased on the Gunnar over the LHT and, I strongly suspect, the Trek...I also remember that I needed 40 acres to turn the Trek around while the LHT requires much less space even though it has a longer wheelbase.
    Last edited by Catrin; 01-16-2011 at 11:36 AM.

  7. #22
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    Google "rake, trail, bicycle" and you'll get a better explanation than I can paraphrase.
    Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Continue to learn. Appreciate your friends. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.

    --Mary Anne Radmacher

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by indysteel View Post
    Google "rake, trail, bicycle" and you'll get a better explanation than I can paraphrase.
    I found some interesting discussions at Bike Forums & TE ...I am starting to get the idea
    Last edited by Catrin; 01-16-2011 at 11:54 AM.

  9. #24
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    Deposit is made, designed has been signed off on, frame and fork are expected in 5-6 weeks. Now it is time to start obsess....errrrrr....thinking about components In order to kick-start the discussion, after talking about assorted options today my fitter is going to put together an initial parts list that we will discuss next Friday. The final list won't be the same, but it will get the discussion started.

    This is getting quite exciting!

  10. #25
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    After reading assorted threads on various sites re: compact double vs triple, I've decided that I really need to get a test ride of some kind so I can feel what it is like to shift a compact double. This isn't the best of test riding weather, for sure, so a trainer at the LBS seems better than nothing.

    My LBS has no shortage of road bikes with double cranks, but I need something with trigger shifters. Thankfully they have ONE FS mountain bike with a compact double that is probably small enough for this purpose. If we can get the saddle down far enough for the test. Of course it will likely have a different crankset than I would choose, perhaps, but at least it will give me an idea on how it might shift differently from my triple. MY LHT has an 11-34 cassette, so the rear cassette shouldn't differ unless it has an 11-36 - and I don't think many bikes come with that yet outside of the Fargo and Niner bikes.

    So this Friday will be interesting

  11. #26
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    Good! i really think that test rides are the way to go on any major decision, and I'm glad that you were able to find a mountain bike that's set up with a double. The gearing will definitely be different than what you'd put on the Gunnar, but it will give you a good approximation.

  12. #27
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    Out of curiosity, what are the specs of the crank that's on the FS MTB that you're trying? I know there are are other compact doubles with combinations different from the one I use on my roadbike (50-34), but I don't specifically know what they are.

    For what it's worth, I personally would not like a compact set up with a wide cassette. As it is, I'm not overly fond of my current set up of a 50-34 compact and a 13-26 cassette because half of the time on the flats, I simply can't find a gear that makes my knees/lungs all that happy. I do have the climbing gears that I need most of the time, but the vast majority of my rides don't involve much climbing. Frankly, the only reason I'm running a compact to begin with is that my IT band wasn't happy with my triple. I know Jonathan has discussed Q factor with you and doesn't feel that you're as bad off as I was with a triple, but what do you/he think you'd otherwise gain by running a compact over a triple? Weight savings? Crisper shifting?
    Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Continue to learn. Appreciate your friends. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.

    --Mary Anne Radmacher

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by indysteel View Post
    Out of curiosity, what are the specs of the crank that's on the FS MTB that you're trying? I know there are are other compact doubles with combinations different from the one I use on my roadbike (50-34), but I don't specifically know what they are.

    For what it's worth, I personally would not like a compact set up with a wide cassette. As it is, I'm not overly fond of my current set up of a 50-34 compact and a 13-26 cassette because half of the time on the flats, I simply can't find a gear that makes my knees/lungs all that happy. I do have the climbing gears that I need most of the time, but the vast majority of my rides don't involve much climbing. Frankly, the only reason I'm running a compact to begin with is that my IT band wasn't happy with my triple. I know Jonathan has discussed Q factor with you and doesn't feel that you're as bad off as I was with a triple, but what do you/he think you'd otherwise gain by running a compact over a triple? Weight savings? Crisper shifting?
    I will find out the specs Friday, it will be an interesting comparison especially if I find I like it - though from what I have read I suspect I won't care for it but I want to give it a chance. Your comment seems to be a common one regarding a double compact.

    I do not appear to be having IT band issues, or at least I did not seem to prior to my injury in September. I am going to ask my PT what the symptoms are for a tight IT band to verify that - I had so many issues with my legs... Jonathan is encouraging me to look at different drive trains - but he has held back on a direct recommendation as of yet.

    It will need to be a good reason to switch from a triple - I will be saving weight from the lighter frame and custom 26 inch wheels that I do not think the weight of the triple crank would hurt. I will be quite curious to see what he specs for me in the initial parts list he is presenting me Friday to start the discussion.

  14. #29
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    FWIW, my primary symptom of IT band irritation was a sore knee. While it can present in the hip, my understanding is that knee pain is much more common.
    Live with intention. Walk to the edge. Listen hard. Practice wellness. Play with abandon. Laugh. Choose with no regret. Continue to learn. Appreciate your friends. Do what you love. Live as if this is all there is.

    --Mary Anne Radmacher

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by indysteel View Post
    FWIW, my primary symptom of IT band irritation was a sore knee. While it can present in the hip, my understanding is that knee pain is much more common.
    I have had this on the spinning bike recently, though a little on the bike. Was it any particular portion of your knee? I have noted this in the lower right front section of one knee - but my knees have sounded like Rice Krispies for years, so I've attributed that to very minor arthritis (PT agrees it is quite minor, thankfully).

    I am starting to develop a series of stretches to do every evening at home - especially on riding days. I am looking forward to the new season and trying to prevent a repeat - can't take advantage of my lovely bikes with more over-use injuries

 

 

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