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  1. #16
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    KTK - be sure to talk to some physiotherapists about bike saddles, especially any who work with pelvic problems (incontinence, pain, etc) Find some models of the pelvis, both male and female. Sit in on a cadaver study, if you can.

    Skeletally and perineally you may find that men and women are more alike than you think. The difference is in proportions more than anything.

    In my experience, women don't need a different *kind* of saddle than men, they just need one that fits their proportions properly.

    Manufacturers are starting to get the idea that saddles should come in sizes, like shoes, which is great. More sizes, more variety in proportions and shapes, and a clear way of categorizing them; and I think the world will be a better place.
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek420 View Post
    And then ... start reading Knott's posts on saddle fit.
    +1. In fact, if there's a way of sorting search results by poster, make anything posted by KnottedYet on saddle fit top priority reading. The item she posted a few minutes ago is just the tip of the iceberg of her wisdom on this topic, IMO.
    Rebecca

    Riley - custom 2014 Enigma Etape
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca19804 View Post
    The item she posted a few minutes ago is just the tip of the iceberg of her wisdom on this topic, IMO.
    Yes, Knott is very wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by KnottedYet View Post
    Sit in on a cadaver study, if you can.
    Is this a study of someone who died of saddle pain from a Bontrager? "if only she had ridden a Brooks "

    Quote Originally Posted by KnottedYet View Post
    More sizes, more variety in proportions and shapes, and a clear way of categorizing them; and I think the world will be a better place.
    I think the world would be a better place if more LBS fit riders to a great saddle. There are many makes, models, shapes out there but too many riders are getting the wrong one for them. My perfect saddle is your implement of torture.
    Last edited by Trek420; 11-04-2010 at 07:18 AM.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
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  4. #19
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    Physiotherapists & Fitters - London

    KTK

    Great resource options suggested by Knott. I'm in London too and her post got me thinking -

    See if you can get an interview with cycling specialists at Balance Performance Physiotherapy (www.balancephysio.com). They're a short walk from North Clapham tube station.

    Another source of info might be Cyclefit in Covent Garden (www.cyclefit.co.uk). They're highly recommended amongst both men and women. Contact points have got to be major factors in what they do.

    Cadavers... I'll leave it to you to sort out a source/access.
    Rebecca

    Riley - custom 2014 Enigma Etape
    Bridget - 2010 Surly Cross Check
    Lorelei - 1979 Puch Princess mixte
    Astrid - 2014 Viking Bromley singlespeed mixte
    Lucy - bespoke 2012 Brompton S1L


    Visit my blog: velovoice.blogspot.co.uk

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca19804 View Post
    Cadavers... I'll leave it to you to sort out a source/access.
    /partial hijack

    I went to one seminar about spinal anatomy where the lecturer had cadaver pieces. I learned an INCREDIBLE amount, just unbelievably more than I'd ever been able to understand from photographs or drawings. Even though I was still essentially looking at a two-dimensional image on the overhead projector, the fact that the lecturer could manipulate the chunks in three dimensions was ENORMOUSLY instructive.

    I sat in the back of the lecture hall with probably 300+ people between me and the overhead projector. That was as close as I wanted to be to the trays full of vertebrae, ligaments, nerves and muscles.

    But anyway, as someone coming from a profession where a knowledge of anatomy is secondary, I heartily second the recommendation.

    /hijack


    Quote Originally Posted by Trek420 View Post
    Yes, Knott is very wise.
    +a milliion!

    Is this a study of someone who died of saddle pain from a Bontrager? "if only she had ridden a Brooks "
    I know there must be women who've had to have 130 mm saddles surgically extracted from their nether parts.
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 11-04-2010 at 07:36 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  6. #21
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    Oh, it's an interesting question - how would we design a saddle (or a system of saddles, which I think she means, ones that come in various sizes, shapes) for women if we could start from scratch?

    I'm having a hard time thinking outside the box from the saddle that we're all used to, to something completely different.

    Something that could be nice is a system that has more colors - maybe with removable covers. I know, having a saddle that is the color you want is kind of a luxury that most of us don't get to have.

    I know that you can tune a brooks saddle for how tight it is - Can we make a saddle that has an adjustable cut out - There's room in the nose for a huge cut out say, but if you don't need one or don't need much of one, you can add something into it. Maybe a saddle that say it starts off pear shaped, but if you tighten something at various points, you can adjust the shape into a T shape - But having multiple of these so that you can pretty much morph the saddle into the shape you want. You could do something similar with the sitbone section - then the removable covers would be leather or whatever that you shrink down to cover the saddle shape that works for you. This of course won't come lightly, and most of us are reasonable weight weenies - putting a 5 lb saddle on a 16 lb bike makes no sense. So there could be a prototype saddle that you borrow from the local bike shop to make these sorts of adjustments till you find the perfect shape, and then a custom saddle could be made from that.


    Of course - a lot of women ride brooks saddles because it's a leather system that they break into the contours of their body - But if KTK could design a system that basically makes a custom saddle that is perfect for whoever orders it - say by taking a mold of the nether regions or a prototype very adjustable saddle, that would improve on the brooks system...

    But whether or not custom saddles are cost prohibitive... How much are most of us willing to spend on the perfect saddle? Brooks and high end saddles are probably about $120... Is $200 a fair price for absolutely custom? And is that a profitable model?


    That's the best ideas I can come up with. I think.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataboo View Post
    Is $200 a fair price for absolutely custom? And is that a profitable model?
    Considering the proliferation of 3-D printing these days, I think it's a viable model, but it might have to be just a little higher (even with a plastic shell and cromoly rails).

    Custom foot orthotics done by computerized mapping and printing, with minimal expertise on the part of the person doing the scans, are around $250 a pair. I'm not sure how much profit is in there. Maybe it's just a market-determined price point with a lot of profit built in, so that saddles could be sold at the same price point. It's also true that 3-D printing has come a long way since that price point was set.

    If there was any padding in the cover, that might add more expense, since the placement of the padding would have to be customized to the shell shape.

    Custom carbon shells and/or carbon or titanium rails obviously would be a great deal more expensive, since off-the-shelf carbon saddles are already in that range.

    But yeah - I agree it's at least a possibility.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  8. #23
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    I know enough men that complain bitterly about their saddles that I think men would be quite willing to spring for a custom saddle system... Which would give it a broader market.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    Considering the proliferation of 3-D printing these days, I think it's a viable model, but it might have to be just a little higher (even with a plastic shell and cromoly rails).

    Custom foot orthotics done by computerized mapping and printing, with minimal expertise on the part of the person doing the scans, are around $250 a pair. I'm not sure how much profit is in there. Maybe it's just a market-determined price point with a lot of profit built in, so that saddles could be sold at the same price point. It's also true that 3-D printing has come a long way since that price point was set.
    Good point. In the past 12 years, I've had two sets of orthotics made up. Probably should have had them re-done at closer intervals. Yes, not cheap but as my mother says 'you only get one pair of feet'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cataboo View Post
    How much are most of us willing to spend on the perfect saddle? Brooks and high end saddles are probably about $120... Is $200 a fair price for absolutely custom? And is that a profitable model?
    When you consider how many saddles many of us have bought over the years, USD200-250 for a custom one sounds damn reasonable to me!

    (anyone else bought more than one Brooks? )
    Last edited by Rebecca19804; 11-04-2010 at 08:15 AM.
    Rebecca

    Riley - custom 2014 Enigma Etape
    Bridget - 2010 Surly Cross Check
    Lorelei - 1979 Puch Princess mixte
    Astrid - 2014 Viking Bromley singlespeed mixte
    Lucy - bespoke 2012 Brompton S1L


    Visit my blog: velovoice.blogspot.co.uk

  10. #25
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    There is a company that makes custom saddles in just that way.

    They are carbon fiber, custom molded, and I don't remember how much they cost... but I do remember that they were not cheap.

    I can't do a search at the moment, but if someone wants to throw the details at Google, they can probably find it easily.
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  11. #26
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    http://www.sellelogica.com/

    $575 unpadded, $10 or $20 extra for padding.

    $385/$395 for off-the-shelf saddles based on "the average of all the custom saddles we have created" [which sounds like an automatic torture device to me].

    We've obviously talked about this before - since the link showed I'd clicked on it recently. If I had a longer attention span I might have a better memory, too.

    One thing their website doesn't feature is testimonials. Not that I put a lot of stock in those anyway, but I think before I'd drop close to $600 on something non-returnable and non-resellable, I'd want to know if other people liked theirs...


    Wait, I've got a slogan for them. "The price of three Brooks, the weight of a third of one."
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 11-04-2010 at 01:13 PM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    98
    There's also Cedesius custom saddles:

    http://www.cedesius.com/aboutus.html

    Their Design Science section of their web site clearly isn't written by a scientist, but on many points it sounds like they "get it".

    '09 Trek 7.3 FX hybrid / Jett 155mm
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dianne_1234 View Post
    There's also Cedesius custom saddles:
    I know it sounds nit-picky, but I have a hard time being impressed by a website that has a spelling or punctuation error in nearly every sentence. If they pay so little attention to detail in their marketing materials, why should I believe they give any attention to detail in their product?
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    I know it sounds nit-picky, but I have a hard time being impressed by a website that has a spelling or punctuation error in nearly every sentence. If they pay so little attention to detail in their marketing materials, why should I believe they give any attention to detail in their product?
    From the first paragraph: And along with it's own research done with custom molding, this knowledge is used to create a superior anatomical fit to maximize comfort, health concerns, and performance.

    Step right up ladies and gentlemen, count the errors. First correct entry wins the prize!
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    N+1 bike ~ Brompton
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  15. #30
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    I'd love to do a poll to find out how many people first discovered TE when searching for information on saddles/woman-specific saddle issues or bike fit.

    Deb
    2016 Kona Rove ST (M/L 54) WTB Volt
    Camp Stove Green Surly Karate Monkey (M) WTB Volt
    Kona Dew Deluxe (54cm) Brooks B67-S

 

 

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