Hot 48 miles and dehydration

[Catrin]

I remember my HEED instructions said to add your own amount of electrolytes, so you might want to check the nutritional information before assuming HEED will get you what you need.

hmmmm, on the back of my Heed container:

Heed provides:
complex carbohydrates
a complete electrolyte profile (looks pretty complete)
Supplimental Nutrients that buffer lactice acid, stabilize blood glucose levels and promote efficient carbohydrate metabolism

This looks great - IF YOU DRINK IT - which I did not

Not because I don't like the taste - I do - better than any other drink I've tried. So, I will drink it next time

[nscrbug]

I tried to do that.... No problems drinking from the 'bak of course. The problem today seemed to be that once it got really hot, and I got into the hills (was surprised to find those, considering) and the hot headwind came that I just focused on the water and forgot about the Heed in the bottle - my body probably needed both more water and to replace the electrolytes.

It was the confusion that was a surprise to me, I've heard about the cramps.... Next time the Heed is going into the 'Bak

I suffered with severe dehydration once, and not only was I "confused"...but I'm pretty sure I was hallucinating too. I actually starting fixating on the white line (I think it's called "white line fever") that runs along the shoulder. It was almost like I couldn't take my eyes off that damn white line...I felt like a zombie. That was downright scary! I often forget to drink enough on rides, but I'm getting better about that. I really should start carrying 2 bottles with me, but we usually end up stopping at a gas station or two, to refill anyway.

[sarahspins]

That may well have been from low blood sugar - I do get hypoglycemia and didn't have my meter with me.

Test, don't guess!

Go buy a sidekick or True2Go... best "bike" meters I've found I have two True2Go's that stay in each of my saddle bags (one on each bike).. I don't worry about not having one with me... and they're so small that I have no excuse not to carry one. The strips expire after 6 months if unused, but they're cheap... around $20 for 50, and I've yet to "not" use them up in time... if you're out riding a lot, I'd honestly recommend test any time you feel "off".

I always carry some sort of fast acting glucose (I like cake gel because it's cheaper than liquid glucose) as well as energy gels (which are not fast acting). I don't like tabs because I feel like if I do use them to treat a low, I waste too much of my water getting the gritty chalky feeling to go away than I really need to - with the cake gel just a swish and swallow is good after. Then I follow it up with half an energy gel and more water, but a couple of shot bloks would work fine too.

[Pika]

Looks like you have received some great advice already but do be sure to check for the brached chain amino acids in your nutrition ( whatever you choose) this is something I learned from another forum...
L-Tryptophan and Carbohydrates
L-tryptophan may be found in turkey and other dietary proteins, but it's actually a carbohydrate-rich (as opposed to protein-rich) meal that increases the level of this amino acid in the brain and leads to serotonin synthesis. Carbohydrates stimulate the pancreas to secrete insulin. When this occurs, some amino acids that compete with tryptophan leave the bloodstream and enter muscle cells. This causes an increase in the relative concentration of tryptophan in the bloodstream. Serotonin is synthesized and you feel that familiar sleepy feeling.

So, here is something to try on your next long ride...take along some BCAA (Branched chain amino acids). This will help keep levels high enough in the bloodstream to compete with the tryptophan and keep the levels lower in the brain, reducing the fatigue.
hope that helps,
Tam

[Catrin]

Lots of good ideas - thanks! Figuring out all of these hydration and nutritional needs is part of the process of building endurance... figuring out what works.

I think that I've been in weight loss mode for so long that it came into play yesterday with not wanting to eat more on the bike. Gotta fuel for endurance.

I do think it a good idea to stay at this mileage at least one more week, just to be safe, before I bump it to 60. I was taking the 60 mile option on an organized ride next Saturday, but think it would be best to stick with the 50 mile option one more week...

[DarcyInOregon]

Catrin, there is nothing wrong with stopping the bike alongside the road in the shade of a tree, planting your feet, and taking a few minutes to drink and eat. There is no rule that you must drink and eat while pedaling, especially if you are primarily a solo cyclist. The stoppped time also gives you the opportunity to reflect on your heart rate, blood pressure, blood sugar, body temp, etc., to make sure you have no symptoms. The cyclists I know will stop at specific points based on either 1)calories burned, 2)distance or 3)time. I use calories burned because I cycle with low blood sugars also and I stop to refuel at specific levels, every 800-1200 calories burned, eat and drink, and that will usually keep something from happening.

I always plan my distance rides to either go by farm stands, small farm town grocery stores or parks, where I can get water to fill my water bowls. I have even gone right up to farm houses and used their garden hose to fill my water bottles. I carry electrolyte powders to put in my water bottles.

On this last Saturday, I did a century in the extreme heat, with the temp on the bike being in excess of 100. I did all sorts of things to keep from getting heat stroke and dehydration and low electrolytes, like cooling down in a hay barn and once standing in a farmer's sprinklers until my entire body was soaked. But for the first time ever, I got severe cramps in my right leg after a 3-mile climb, so everything I did still wasn't enough. Yet I was quite lucky because at the end I was told that a lot of cyclists had to call for help from their relatives or friends or event volunteers, that one male century cyclist had a possible heart attack at mile 60, and that many metric cyclists had possible heat stroke/dehydration issues. The lesson I learned is that when the temp goes high, to do shorter distances or not to ride at all.

And yes, you are correct, the most difficult part of increasing the miles is actually the nutrition and liquid intake, figuring it out, adjusting and tinkering with it, and then you will find the years go by and you are still tinkering with it.

[tulip]

What works for me is taking a big gulp (in my case nuun or G2 diluted) every 10 minutes max. I don't think you did that. It will help when you can drink while riding, but in the meantime, plan to stop every 15 minutes and drink. Eat every 30 minutes.

On a 4.5 hour ride, it's imperative that I eat--more than just shot blocks. I eat a PowerBar over an hour, so that would mean that I would have eaten 4 PowerBars. Now, I really would not eat 4 PowerBars because it would make me gag--I would have eaten two over the course of the ride, and stopped at a store and had some beef jerky, more gatorade-type stuff, and perhaps some almonds. At the end, I would have enjoyed chocolate milk and potato chips.

[GLC1968]

I've been so dehydrated (hiking, not biking) that I too was hallucinating. I kept seeing tables set with white tablecloths and a big glasses of icewater that I couldn't get my hands on. They were following me. It was scary. I could hear other people drinking and getting their glasses refilled, too (though no one else in my group was drinking either!). You don't want to see the water we ended up drinking to save our own lives. Ick.

Anyway...

I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

And yes, overheating can definitely cause fuzzy thinking. It happens to me particularly because I'm not the most prolific sweat producer. If you aren't either, that probably contributed to your issues.

[Catrin]

...... The cyclists I know will stop at specific points based on either 1)calories burned, 2)distance or 3)time. I use calories burned because I cycle with low blood sugars also and I stop to refuel at specific levels, every 800-1200 calories burned, eat and drink, and that will usually keep something from happening.......And yes, you are correct, the most difficult part of increasing the miles is actually the nutrition and liquid intake, figuring it out, adjusting and tinkering with it, and then you will find the years go by and you are still tinkering with it.

Good advice, thank you. I really didn't feel bad until my calf started cramping...so lesson learned that I need to plan better for this. I guess it wasn't a real issue when I was riding <40 miles...

What works for me is taking a big gulp (in my case nuun or G2 diluted) every 10 minutes max. I don't think you did that. It will help when you can drink while riding, but in the meantime, plan to stop every 15 minutes and drink. Eat every 30 minutes.

I was drinking from my Camelbak pretty frequently - but no - not every 10 minutes - but it just had water in it. That will change this weekend when I go on my long ride. If I wind up having to replace the bladder because I put Heed in it then I will. Thanks for the other food ideas as well.

....I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

And yes, overheating can definitely cause fuzzy thinking. It happens to me particularly because I'm not the most prolific sweat producer. If you aren't either, that probably contributed to your issues.

I did drink my bottle of Accelerade - though it would have been better to have had two of them rather than one. It is like Perpeteum and my stomach likes it better. In this area what my tummy wants she gets I DID have shot bloks with me though I forgot to eat them .... considering how many long rides I have planned over the next few months I think a case of them would be a great idea! My tummy likes them as well, which is good.

I am not the most prolific sweat producer either, though that seems to be changing - which is a good thing.

I've another 50 mile ride planned for Saturday, but this one will be a supported club ride. It is supposed to be back to reasonable temps this weekend as well so there shouldn't be a repeat.

[Catrin]

Yesterday's ride went much better as far as nutrition/hydration was concerned. Same number of miles that took more than an hour longer due to the presence of lots of hills - and I am still working on finding my inner hill-climbing animal

The temps were much, much cooler so the comparison stops there - but felt many times better even though I was on the bike almost 5 hours.

[OakLeaf]

C., glad it seems to be working better for you, although of course it's been MUCH cooler, and we're also all a bit better acclimated to the heat than we were a couple of weeks ago.

I believe that HEED is designed to have enough electrolytes for shorter workouts. For longer ones, Hammer recommends Perpeteum (or however it's spelled) because HEED does not provide enough electrolytes beyond 2 hours (or something like that). Of course, HEED supplemented with shot bloks should have been fine had you been eating them.

Nutrition labels: HEED, Perpetuem. Keeping in mind that the data for Perpetuem is for two scoops, vs. one scoop for HEED (hate that!), you can see that they're just different products, but while Perpetuem has more sodium and calcium, it actually has LESS magnesium than HEED and no potassium at all.

For more balanced long-workout electrolyte replacement and/or if you don't like the soy protein that Perpetuem has, they sell Endurolytes in powder and pill form.

That's what I really hate about Hammer products. I like the way HEED and Hammer Gel sit on my stomach - better than most anything I've tried. I of course like how they're widely available at retail. I really, really dislike having to buy three different products from them.

[Catrin]

C., glad it seems to be working better for you, although of course it's been MUCH cooler, and we're also all a bit better acclimated to the heat than we were a couple of weeks ago.




Nutrition labels: HEED, Perpetuem. Keeping in mind that the data for Perpetuem is for two scoops, vs. one scoop for HEED (hate that!), you can see that they're just different products, but while Perpetuem has more sodium and calcium, it actually has LESS magnesium than HEED and no potassium at all.

For more balanced long-workout electrolyte replacement and/or if you don't like the soy protein that Perpetuem has, they sell Endurolytes in powder and pill form.

That's what I really hate about Hammer products. I like the way HEED and Hammer Gel sit on my stomach - better than most anything I've tried. I of course like how they're widely available at retail. I really, really dislike having to buy three different products from them.

I don't use Perpetuam - I like the Heed for rides <2 hours. For longer rides - or very hot ones - I also use Accelerade (2 scoops for one bottle as well). For some reason Perpetuam doesn't sit on my stomach quite as well as Accelerade - and I don't mind the taste when it gets warm. It seems to work for me. Hammer Gel is fine, but I prefer Cliff Shot Blocs for ease of use and I don't get my fingers sticky. Accelerade has whey protein rather than soy and I like that better.

For now this combination seems to be working for me - though the real test will be what happens the next very hot day...

BTW - when I went riding Friday afternoon - there for the first mile or so I almost wanted warmer clothes on! It passed

[Dannielle]

My 70oz camelback lasts me about 2hours. I fill it with cytomax and when it's hot I add a little dash of salt plus a dash of Morton's lite salt for extra electrolytes. I get leg cramps without the extra electrolytes.

I would have needed much more than you drank. I tend to sweat profusely though so it's possible I need more than average. My daughter drinks nowhere near the amount I do when we ride.

It definitely sounds like you were overheated...hydration and fueling may have played a part. Sounds like a break was the right things to do!

[CommuterChick]

This thread has been very instructive. This has been my summer of longer rides -- canyon and prairie, lots of headwinds, and while no confusion or hallucinations, I started to have what I call gnatstorms of microseizures. I do have epilepsy, but I haven't had seizures in years, and these were only happening immediately after rides. I thought it might be due to dehydration, so really tried to up the water intake, but still wasn't doing it. I told my ride buddies, they started building extra marcy-water-stops into the organized rides we did, gotta love your ride buddies.

I'd never even tried gatorade or shot blocks (I call 'em fake jello shots) before, but started this summer, and so far no more seizures. Now I'm having energy swoops, highs and lows, more often lows, so have to figure out how to manage this, so turned to Team Estrogen for some collective wisdom. I bought some Heed yesterday after a 50 mile dry and windy ride. I will be rereading this thread and looking elsewhere on Nutrition/Hydration for ideas on spike mgmt, but thank you for your willingness to share your experiences -- I'm feeling less pathetic now.

[Catrin]

I bought some Heed yesterday after a 50 mile dry and windy ride. I will be rereading this thread and looking elsewhere on Nutrition/Hydration for ideas on spike mgmt, but thank you for your willingness to share your experiences -- I'm feeling less pathetic now.

I hope the Heed works for you - FOR ME Heed works great, and for rides over 2 hours I add in Accelerade (lemon-lime or mountain berry). Perpetuam just doesn't work for me as well as Accelerade.

I hope that you can work this out, but it sounds like you might be on the right track. I like Shot Blocs as well - they work for me.

This is such a personal thing that changes between individuals and our bodies. What works for one may not another - but of course we can't figure out what WILL work until we get into the longer rides. I have learned that I have to eat/drink a LOT on longer rides to keep my energy up but someone else may not need to do so...

Keep us posted on how things go.