Cobb Saddles

[vness]

has anyone looked into this?
from http:www.cobbcycling.com
according to Cobb:

In high performance road bikes or triathlon bikes, there is a large difference in the seating positions compared to a more recreational type of bicycle. In the case of a triathlon bike, the rider is rotated much more forward, riding on a completely different part of the Pelvis area. The VFlow range of seats are designed for performance riding, they are not the best choice for a Beach cruiser. The narrow rear section is especially great at relieving pressure from the hamstring muscle and the upper adductors. These pressure points are two of the leading causes of leg cramps and low back pain.
When making seats for women, it is very common for other saddle makers to promote the fact that the rear is wider and the nose is shorter on their seats. This is just completely wrong thinking for a woman performance cyclist. With the use of a Form Sensor Aray TekScan unit, I was able to plot the exact skin pressure points over the area that a female rider actually uses. Many women riders have a shorter torso length than men comparatively, they also commonly have thicker upper thighs and face real issues with pubic bone and “soft tissue” comfort. By analyzing the pressure points, by hand cutting many saddles and by listening to the riders inputs, I have come up with a saddle that offers a huge leap in rider comfort. Women need for their upper legs to be able to swing further back on the saddle, especially while riding on aero bars or on the drops.
Seats that have a wide rear area will force the rider to move forward on the nose of the seat, this is not a comfortable position and leads to very high Pubic bone area stress. Most seat manufacturers promote that if your sit bones are 130mm or 145mm then you need a seat that is at least that wide. Think about how you ride your bike, when you’re on the drops or on the aero bars, you are rotated well forward of the sit bones. The rider will roll forward on to the Rams horns of the pelvis bone, this area is generally from 70mm to 100mm wide at the maximum. Women cyclist can feel the upper thigh interference and that relates to unpleasant higher soft tissue pressures. A narrower seat design will really work.

his saddles are quite narrow.. one of the reasons I've been afraid to try them as a 130mm did feel too narrow for me. I'm currently using a 134mm and have just started to have problems. Wider saddles seemed to be worse.

There is also a lot of interesting information on the set-up section of his website.

My hips naturally roll through and "lay down" on a saddle, esp. when in the drops. I also have my saddle tipped slightly downward - wondering if changing that as he suggests, might help.

I seem to have entered (or re-entered) saddle hell. The one I was using, while not perfect, wasn't causing any harm. Suddenly I'm getting all kinds of sores.

also looking at a Prologo Ladies Choice... anyone riding a Prologo? They also make a saddle that's a lot like a Ruby/Toupe, but in between the size of 130 - 143mm. Interesting possibility

I hate starting over again... sigh. Bad time of year as I need to be on the road, not nursing sores!!

The whole thing regarding just using sitbone measurements hasn't really helped me. I definitely feel them but as I rarely sit up, the bulk of my weight isn't using them for sole support. I've measured them many times but can't remember what they are - "I think" I was about 120mm? On the Specialized Butt-o-meter, I think I came in as a 143mm - but they never worked for me!!

any and all feedback would be appreciated

thanks
namaste,
v

[KnottedYet]

If you know you ride on your pubic rami more than on your ischial tuberosities, you probably want to look at something with a very wide and padded nose and a very gradual transition from "sit" to nose. The rami are sharp and thin, while the tuberosities are thick and blunt and heavily built up. The width at the back won't really matter because with that much anterior pelvic tilt your hip joint simply can't extend that far anyway and I just can't see the hamstring getting into trouble.

There is a very good split-nose saddle that I've suggested to a few of my clients who ride aero: http://www.bikewagon.com/ISM-Adamo-C...-p8176886.html They seem to like it. It is a little wider than what you are considering, but it is certainly designed more for rami than ischial tuberosities.

Don't forget a woman's pubic rami are at a different angle than a man's (theirs angle backwards more than ours) so you may need to monkey around with shape and nose width quite a bit before you find perfection, so don't give up!

[nscrbug]

vness,

I have tried a Cobb V-Flow Plus. I previously rode a Cervelo Carbon Soloist and had the Cobb saddle put on before I even took the bike home from the LBS. I rode that saddle for 300 miserable miles before returning it. For me, it WAS too narrow. I had extreme sitbone pain and numbing. It was NOT the saddle for me. However, Cobb has a 180-day return policy...so if you suspect that it might work for you, you really have nothing to lose in trying it. I can say this...it definitely felt better riding the Cobb in aero, than it did upright. It's very popular amongst the triathlon crowd, so it makes sense that it would feel better in aero, as it is designed with a wide and heavily padded nose.

I also have ridden a ProLogo saddle (the Kappa Dea). This saddle came stock on my 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Fem 3, that I recently purchased. I tried to like this saddle, but sadly, it too felt too narrow for me...causing the same sitbone pain/numbing. I don't know how this saddle compares to the "Choice" model you are considering. I believe the width on it is 138mm, but I could be wrong on that. I have been unable to really find much information on ProLogo saddles.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Linda

[vness]

If you know you ride on your pubic rami more than on your ischial tuberosities, you probably want to look at something with a very wide and padded nose and a very gradual transition from "sit" to nose. The rami are sharp and thin, while the tuberosities are thick and blunt and heavily built up. The width at the back won't really matter because with that much anterior pelvic tilt your hip joint simply can't extend that far anyway and I just can't see the hamstring getting into trouble.

There is a very good split-nose saddle that I've suggested to a few of my clients who ride aero: http://www.bikewagon.com/ISM-Adamo-C...-p8176886.html They seem to like it. It is a little wider than what you are considering, but it is certainly designed more for rami than ischial tuberosities.

Don't forget a woman's pubic rami are at a different angle than a man's (theirs angle backwards more than ours) so you may need to monkey around with shape and nose width quite a bit before you find perfection, so don't give up!

thank you for the suggestion... Adamo saddles have been suggested before and I always thought it looked like it just wouldn't work.... way too wide in the nose, for one thing. That said & considering what I've been using isn't working, I'm re-considering my objections & thinking about giving it a try (she says cautiously... I keep reading that it can be hard to dial in & unfortunately $'s tight these days... though it is hard to put a price tag on not being hurt on the bike and being able to just focus solely on performance instead of squirming around all the time)

I am curious why you suggested the Century as it's fairly wide at 145mm. I've been to ISM's website and of course am drooling over the lighter versions (Breakaway & Peloton). Even the Road is only 135mm wide.

You mention that it's designed more for rami, yet all the info I've found says just the opposite... that it puts you directly on your ischial tuberosities! In fact, that's supposed to be the hardest thing to get used to.

I've also read that a lot of people pull the sides in to narrow it. I'm only 5'1" and have the additional misfortune of being ummmm... "amply padded" up front, which certainly doesn't help.

Should I also be looking into tri saddles in general? I've always thought a wide nose would drive me crazy.

Thank you so much for your input. It's really appreciated.

namaste,
vness

[vness]

vness,

I have tried a Cobb V-Flow Plus. I previously rode a Cervelo Carbon Soloist and had the Cobb saddle put on before I even took the bike home from the LBS. I rode that saddle for 300 miserable miles before returning it. For me, it WAS too narrow. I had extreme sitbone pain and numbing. It was NOT the saddle for me. However, Cobb has a 180-day return policy...so if you suspect that it might work for you, you really have nothing to lose in trying it. I can say this...it definitely felt better riding the Cobb in aero, than it did upright. It's very popular amongst the triathlon crowd, so it makes sense that it would feel better in aero, as it is designed with a wide and heavily padded nose.

I also have ridden a ProLogo saddle (the Kappa Dea). This saddle came stock on my 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon Fem 3, that I recently purchased. I tried to like this saddle, but sadly, it too felt too narrow for me...causing the same sitbone pain/numbing. I don't know how this saddle compares to the "Choice" model you are considering. I believe the width on it is 138mm, but I could be wrong on that. I have been unable to really find much information on ProLogo saddles.

Hope this helps somewhat.

Linda

thank you for replying. I agree that they do seem too narrow at 130mm. What I can't figure out is how the basic Cobb version is also the heaviest!

re: Prologo: The Choice version I was looking at was a women's specific saddle. But honestly, I don't have any "good" reasons for thinking a Prologo would work. Just interested in them I guess, and hoping I could ride something nice & light. I hate that I may end up with something heavy & ugly - yes, I do think the Cobbs are a bit unsightly LOL

Even the Adamos are heavier and bigger (thicker), but I do think I may look into them.

I guess I'll be researching tri saddles now, even though I don't use aerobars. Wondering what else is out there... as I said though, this is such a bad time to be dealing with this... right in the middle of my season.... though at least it's a couple of months before all the Centuries start!

How do you like the SLK?

Thanks again for your input. Yes, everything helps :)

namaste,
vness

[KnottedYet]

That's just the best picture I could find, I don't suggest that particular model. (I like good pictures)

As the pelvis rolls forward (into aero) the weight shifts from the tuberosities to the rami.

Normal saddles put you on the tuberosities, that's what you sit on. With anterior pelvic tilt you shift onto the rami, which angle in to the pubic symphysis.

The Adamo saddles are popular with my patients who tend to be in anterior pelvic tilt, and know they are on their rami more than the tuberosities. In fact, it was a patient who first told me about them.

It's far more important that you use your knowlege than that you follow anyone's opinion that worries you. If you know you are on your rami, look for saddles that will support your rami. If a saddle freaks you out because some man a foot taller than you describes how it supports him and it's not how YOU want to be supported, then don't try it. But bear in mind it might fit you a little differently... sometimes men and women can have radically different experiences on the same saddle.

[Owlie]

It must be lunch time. I keep reading this as "Cobb Salads."

I have nothing more to add.

[vness]

That's just the best picture I could find, I don't suggest that particular model. (I like good pictures)

As the pelvis rolls forward (into aero) the weight shifts from the tuberosities to the rami.

Normal saddles put you on the tuberosities, that's what you sit on. With anterior pelvic tilt you shift onto the rami, which angle in to the pubic symphysis.

The Adamo saddles are popular with my patients who tend to be in anterior pelvic tilt, and know they are on their rami more than the tuberosities. In fact, it was a patient who first told me about them.

It's far more important that you use your knowlege than that you follow anyone's opinion that worries you. If you know you are on your rami, look for saddles that will support your rami. If a saddle freaks you out because some man a foot taller than you describes how it supports him and it's not how YOU want to be supported, then don't try it. But bear in mind it might fit you a little differently... sometimes men and women can have radically different experiences on the same saddle.

according to the ISM website:
The saddles are designed for the rider to place all of his/her weight on the sit bones. As with all nose less saddles, the ISM saddles place pressure on the sit bones. The sit bones are covered with muscle, which must be conditioned before you achieve maximum comfort. The amount of time for muscle conditioning varies amongst riders. The doctors have compared the muscle soreness to a weight workout and no damage is being done to the body.

so obviously I'm confused by this statement, as I can't imagine not putting my weight on my rami, since that's what my pelvis rolls onto when riding.

are there saddles which specifically support the rami? Do the women you work with who are using this saddle say they are on their rami and not the ischial tuberosities? Is anyone turning it slightly as well? (something else I read on ISM's website)

thank you for your patience. I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot... and no, it's not 6' tall men I'm listening too LOL I'm reading everything

[artifactos]

vness, I ride on an Adamo Road model. It took me some adjustments (nose down, turned slightly to the right), but it fits me quite well.

It does make my sitbones sore if I haven't been on the bike in a while and/or put in a ton of miles all at once. It does, however, put me on my rami when I get down into the drops, and I tend to do that when my butt starts to get a little sore (like tonight, when I wasn't wearing the best shorts..). I imagine that if I had aerobars, I would be on my rami a lot more.

It solved my particular soft tissue issues, but I did have to put the nose down a bit and I tend to sit a little further up on the nose, because the width of the back of the saddle was giving me some SI joint issues. Those were solved with subsequent adjustments.

If you have any specific questions, let me know.

[dianne_1234]

[QUOTE=vness;520470]according to the ISM website:
The saddles are designed for the rider to place all of his/her weight on the sit bones. As with all nose less saddles, the ISM saddles place pressure on the sit bones. The sit bones are covered with muscle, which must be conditioned before you achieve maximum comfort. The amount of time for muscle conditioning varies amongst riders. The doctors have compared the muscle soreness to a weight workout and no damage is being done to the body.

Cobb only uses the imprecise term "sit bones", never ischial tuberosities. Considering people ride these saddles on the tips, everyone is probably on their rami - no one has ITs that closely spaced!

I've tried to like this saddle but can't. One (fixable?) reason is that the contact between the tips and my body traps the edge of the chamois - the stitching digs into my skin that covers the rami, right where the leg joins the body. (Sorry if TMI.)

The different Adamo models all share the same lastic base, just he padding and covers are different. The Century's extra width is just the foam gel hanging over the sides but really works - it feels like a wider base to me. The gel on the Century is a big improvement overr the hard foam on the Road and Race versions, at least to me. This is opposite a normall saddel (where gel is worse than hard), because there's so much pressure: when I'm sitting on the tips all my weight on the saddle is only spread over a few square centimeters.

If you like, give it a try.

hope this helps,

[vness]

vness, I ride on an Adamo Road model. It took me some adjustments (nose down, turned slightly to the right), but it fits me quite well.

It does make my sitbones sore if I haven't been on the bike in a while and/or put in a ton of miles all at once. It does, however, put me on my rami when I get down into the drops, and I tend to do that when my butt starts to get a little sore (like tonight, when I wasn't wearing the best shorts..). I imagine that if I had aerobars, I would be on my rami a lot more.

It solved my particular soft tissue issues, but I did have to put the nose down a bit and I tend to sit a little further up on the nose, because the width of the back of the saddle was giving me some SI joint issues. Those were solved with subsequent adjustments.

If you have any specific questions, let me know.

thank you for the info... I do have a couple of questions:

I just read somewhere that the saddle (or lack thereof) somewhat affects bike handling - that it puts more weight onto your arms on the bars - it went so far as to say not to try sitting up & riding without hands. I hate the thought that I might not be able to fully sit up occasionally to do stuff

there are so many factors to consider with this saddle (so I'm reading) that it almost feels like a last resort.

Can you comfortably ride in all the various permutations one uses on a road bike? If it's just for an aero position, it might be too limiting. Though I spend a lot of time in the drops, I certainly don't only ride that way.

I'm wondering if, in the interim, I should try riding a tri saddle without a cutout and a wider nose. I've always used cutouts because of my ahem... 'full girly parts' and a very narrow nose. The nose on a saddle has never bothered me but I'm thinking that the cutout itself, riding on my rami, could be part of the problem. Did you try more traditional tri saddles before turning to the Adamo?

sorry for so many questions. It sounds like it's a big investment - with a potentially tricky adjustment period.

I'm wondering if I should try to get through the season before initiating such a drastic change - that's my main reason for asking about trying a more traditional tri saddle. My parts might get squished by the nose LOL and I do wonder if my legs will be chafed by the width - but that's also what I always thought the Adamo would do.

thanks again for letting me rant - I hope I made at least a modicum of sense.. this has been so frustrating.

namaste,
v

[vness]

[QUOTE=dianne_1234;520686]

according to the ISM website:
The saddles are designed for the rider to place all of his/her weight on the sit bones. As with all nose less saddles, the ISM saddles place pressure on the sit bones. The sit bones are covered with muscle, which must be conditioned before you achieve maximum comfort. The amount of time for muscle conditioning varies amongst riders. The doctors have compared the muscle soreness to a weight workout and no damage is being done to the body.

Cobb only uses the imprecise term "sit bones", never ischial tuberosities. Considering people ride these saddles on the tips, everyone is probably on their rami - no one has ITs that closely spaced!

I've tried to like this saddle but can't. One (fixable?) reason is that the contact between the tips and my body traps the edge of the chamois - the stitching digs into my skin that covers the rami, right where the leg joins the body. (Sorry if TMI.)

The different Adamo models all share the same lastic base, just he padding and covers are different. The Century's extra width is just the foam gel hanging over the sides but really works - it feels like a wider base to me. The gel on the Century is a big improvement overr the hard foam on the Road and Race versions, at least to me. This is opposite a normall saddel (where gel is worse than hard), because there's so much pressure: when I'm sitting on the tips all my weight on the saddle is only spread over a few square centimeters.

If you like, give it a try.

hope this helps,

thank you for the info... yes, everything helps :)

But that's wasn't a quote from Cobb - it was off the ISM website. The Adamo was designed by Steve Toll... and they do go on to say that one of the biggest adjustments is soreness on the sit bones themselves. That said, it's obvious one must also be on the rami.

What you wrote about the problem you have does make some sense. And no, not TMI at all... we do have to be specific here :)

I always shied away from this saddle because it looked so wide in the front and I've never had a problem with the nose of a saddle anyway, so I didn't get it. I guess I still don't.

I can't decide whether to try it now or try something without a cutout and a larger nose first... just to see if part of the problem's been the cutout itself. That said, I have a feeling I may find a wide nosed saddle, well, wide! I have heard that many pull the ends of the Adamo together to narrow it out.

as I wrote earlier, this is very frustrating. I'd probably not mind dealing with this if it weren't right in the middle of the season. I live in florida, so I ride year round anyway, but right now my rides are only getting more and more competitive. I know I need to do something, just not sure what! I'm even still wondering about that Prologo women's saddle, simply to see what no cutout would do, and the nose is moderate.

so you're still riding yours? and you ride regular road bars? if you read my other rant, you saw I had some other questions... like can you sit up? I've read so many different things about getting used to this saddle. Do I sound as much like an idiot as I feel?

I will drive myself crazy over this. I guess I'll be contacting the poor guy who did my bike fit, as he rides & fits Adamos. I'll ask about getting fit on one, though he's pretty far away. I'll have to do any tweaking on my own and then go back and drive him crazy LOL

this is what 2 days off the bike does to me!! I'll go get 'bit' again in the morning and then see what I have to say! But at least I'll have my ride :))

thanks again
namaste,
v

[artifactos]

thank you for the info... I do have a couple of questions:

I just read somewhere that the saddle (or lack thereof) somewhat affects bike handling - that it puts more weight onto your arms on the bars - it went so far as to say not to try sitting up & riding without hands. I hate the thought that I might not be able to fully sit up occasionally to do stuff

Can you comfortably ride in all the various permutations one uses on a road bike? If it's just for an aero position, it might be too limiting. Though I spend a lot of time in the drops, I certainly don't only ride that way.

I'm wondering if, in the interim, I should try riding a tri saddle without a cutout and a wider nose. I've always used cutouts because of my ahem... 'full girly parts' and a very narrow nose. The nose on a saddle has never bothered me but I'm thinking that the cutout itself, riding on my rami, could be part of the problem. Did you try more traditional tri saddles before turning to the Adamo?

I have always had problems with saddles with noses. I tried cutouts, that wasn't enough. I tried a handful of saddles (my LBS owner would give me a couple weeks on trial - I usually brought all of them back in within 20 miles because of major soft tissue pain/tears), most of them race/tri saddles, some with cutouts, some with dents.. they only would have worked for me had I ridden in a super upright position all the time, because as soon as I rolled my hips forward (onto my rami), my girlie parts got squished and bruised and torn. Ouch.

So, that's why I went with the Adamo. I ride it on the hoods just fine, in the drops just fine, and expect to be fine in aerobars when I get them. I can sit up with one hand on the flat bar and be fine, too. I have never been comfortable riding without hands, and the adjustment of my nose downward (which was necessary to keep me comfortable) makes me less comfortable with trying it.

As for putting more weight on your arms.. I really only noticed any difference when I tilted my nose downward, and I only noticed it for a couple rides before I adjusted. I haven't had any wrist pain or arm pain at all as a result.

As for the width.. yes, the width of the rear of the saddle is a little wide for me. I plan on switching to one of the narrower models in the future, but for now this one works for me - I only get chafing in one of my sets of shorts, and a new pair of shorts is more affordable than a new saddle.

Good luck!

[kermit]

I met two girls at a century I rode last fall and both had adamo saddles on. I had looked at them and do see a lot of women riding them. One of the girls tried it the day before an IM tri, put it on and never turned back. It seems once you get used to the minimal nose nothing else changes as far as handling. There is a really good place in Boca that has like 65 saddles to try and they do a great fit. It's called Racer's edge. It may be worth a trip? I only heard that the adamo fit is critical and takes some getting used to as far as seat bone soreness. I opted against it because of my broken hip/back and frequent SI pain. Still happy with the max flite, not perfect but only trouble I have is occasional numbness which is resolved with two seconds out of the saddle. Let us know whats up?

[OakLeaf]

wow, do they have Selle Italia? I probably won't be in Boca again until after the first of the year, but if they have that Turbomatic I definitely want to try it!