Calorie deprivation - how bad is it really?

[Dogmama]

My brain is going to explode.

I'm going to order the sports nutrition book as soon as I get home. I hope it will explain this Krebs cycle.

Okay, so the "trainer" at the Y took in my appearance and read the info sheet I'd filled out and started talking about watching my diet, avoid potatoes and pasta...same old stuff I hear from well-meaning friends who don't know me well. She recommended Weight Watchers. She also recommended I change doctors, or at least try hers because my doctor is missing something if I'm not losing weight, probably a low-performing thyroid, even though I told her I always test normal. Basically, she made a lot of assumptions based on her personal experiences.

I already know how to work the cardio machines, so she skipped that and took me to the Strive machines and explained how they worked, but I didn't get to work out at all. What a wasted afternoon.

Later, I stopped by a special swim store and bought a swim cap and new goggles. I'll work out tomorrow.

Roxy

I'm so sorry you had that experience. Gives all personal trainers a bad name.

Weight watchers is a good program if you can follow it. Having a group mentality, peer support, etc., can be inspiring.

Evil pasta and potatoes - they get blamed for so many things. Everything is fine in moderation. I think a baked potato is probably better than a deep fried zucchini slice, depending on how you doctor up your baked spud.

The Krebs cycle basically uses fat for fuel. But it is a slower process, hence it is used in endurance exercise. You must have some carbohydrate to turn the fat into fuel. And, you must have time to do endurance exercise because you need to pay attention to the calorie in vs. calorie out equation. Slower, endurance training burns less calories in 30 minutes than faster training.

That being said - I think the mind-body connection is equally important. Here's the deal: Say you do 30 minutes of pretty fast exercise - you're at 75 - 80% of your maximum heart rate - you can get out maybe 3 words before you get really winded. You get done and you're tired, maybe a little sore, and probably hungry. You've burned calories, but the trade off is fatigue - and perhaps a tendency to overeat because, after all, you burned those calories and now you're tired. Willpower is lessened.

OK, now you do the same 30 minutes at a more reasonable heart rate - say 70%. You should be able to carry on short conversations - 5 words maximum. You get done, you aren't as sore, you haven't burned as many calories, perhaps the rhythmic exercise has soothed your mind. So, the twinkies don't look as good because you're in a better space. You're more likely to exercise again tomorrow.

Beginning exercisers tend to hit it so hard that they get sore, fatigued and discouraged. They need to establish a habit of working out - but it's impossible when they suffer each time. OTOH, starting out slowly and enjoying moving your body can help cement that habit into your life. You are not as fatigued, you can work out again.

[channlluv]

I challenged a good friend of mine who weighs the same as you to do a tri with me two years ago, she got to choose the tri, where and when...bought a bike, joined the y, swam, etc. DID the tri and then a few more, which was hard carrying the weight. Decided to get pregnant this year (39, last chance-ish) and did all the testing with her doctor, still weighs 220. She is in PERFECT health, in every way, good cholesterol, thyroid, sugars, everything they test, plus all the hormonal, endicronal etc. tests for getting pregnant. She has finally decided that ok, yes she would like to "look" thinner so that she could be "more attractive" in the eyes of society and therefore "feel" better about herself, but she is strong, healthy and athletic so, she is gonna "live" with that, as in be happy with that, and if, along the way, she loses more weight since she generally changed her eating and training habits, well great, but no more anxiety and no more calorie counting. And the dissipation of the anxiety and stress over her weight might have helped her! she got pregnant on the first try (artificial insemination)!

Tri, congratulations to your friend. I hope her pregnancy goes really smoothly. And what a healthy outlook on her body. I think I'm getting there. Slowly but surely, anyway. Not every day, but most days I feel pretty good about myself. (And then, like today, I catch a glimpse of myself sideways in a mirror - ack!)

It's good incentive to get back on my bike, though.

I'm really going to work on achieving this Krebs cycle fat burning state. Dogmama, how long does it take to get into the Krebs cycle?

Thanks!
Roxy

[Owlie]

LSD rides (long slow duration) use more fat because the Krebs cycle (where fat is burned) takes awhile. Faster rides at a higher heart rate use more carbs, generally. So, should overweight people do only LSD rides? No. It's the calories in vs calories out equation, for the most part.

Um...what Krebs cycle are we referring to here? The only one I'm familiar with is the one that burns everything (fats, carbs, amino acids) and is running all the time. Yes, going faster will preferentially burn sugars, because that's what is rapidly absorbed and doesn't need to go through extra enzymatic steps to be usable fuel.
[Biochemist slinks out of the room and goes back to her corner]

[Dogmama]

The Krebs cycle does go continuously. You're burning fat reading this post. When you exercise, you burn more fat via the Krebs cycle. Fat is burned preferentially to amino acids because fat is easier to convert to energy. Obviously, I'm keeping this simple. Detailed info can be had via an internet search, I'm sure.

When does it kick in - it starts running fast & burning more fat after the easily burned sugars are gone (again, I'm keeping this simple.) A lot depends on your body, how much sugar is stored & how quickly your body starts using fat for energy.

Rather than getting entangled in biochemical stuff, the most important things I tell people are: It's calories in vs calories out and most people overestimate the calories out part & underestimate the calories in part. This is a lifestyle change, not a quick diet. Exercise moderately and do it often - keeps your metabolism running higher. When you're done exercising, you should feel like you still have a little more in the tank. Diet is the most important part. One doughnut can wipe out half an hour on the treadmill.

[marni]

Having lost and kept off 125 pounds over the past 4 years I would like to make a few observations.

1. As has been mentioned, trying for a calorie deficit of in excess of 500 calories a day is unrealistic in the long term. Your body will very quickly go into starvation mode wherein in saves fat and starts burning muscle leading to not only feeling hungry but feeling lousy as well. It is far better to focus increasing your variety and level of activity, adding weights and resistance training to increase your lean muscle mass-remembering that muscle burns fat- and dropping your total fat intake to less than 25 %. No you will probably not lose 2 pounds a week every week but what you lose is more likely to stay lost, you will retrain your eating choices and your mind food set, and your general health should increase with the increased activity and decrease of in your diet and on your body.

2. I would not trust the computer programs that a mass produced data bases for calorie burn for activities. Especially in a semi passive non impact exercise like biking there are so many variables. Are you fit or not, how much weight are you moving, are you riding on the flat or hills, are you riding with a tailwind or a headwind, how much are you sweating, how hot is it, what is your metabolic rate, and how fast are you going?

For example, today I did a 70 miles charity ride at an average speed of 14.9 mph. In occasional glances at the speedometer I noted speeeds as low as 8 mph on the14% hills and 40 mph on the down hills The terrain was rolling with some pretty long steeper climbs. 25 miles of the ride was against the wind. The total in saddle time was 4 hours 45 minutes and I burned 1475 calories- I weigh 145 pounds now. At this point because I have trained in at distances above 55 miles, my average calorie burn is about 300 calories an hour. A year ago the same ride would have burne somewhere between 400-450 calories an hour when I weighed 160.

It's all relative.

3. I wear a monitoring device (bodybugg.com) recommended by a sports trainer/dietician that measures my skin temperature, pulse, and sweat % and works it against a logarithmic formula that includes ambient temperature to give me a calorie burn. It has a dieticians food data base that is extremely accurate for calorie content, as well as micronutrient breakdown of fat, protein, carbs etc. Between that and caliper measurements of body fat once a month as well as monthly body measurements, I think I am getting a pretty good breakdown of how much I burn, how much I eat, and where my weak spots are and what my trigger points are. There are several different types and brands out there. I just happen to have started with this one and like it.

4. It is a given point among most dieticians that people unintetionally underestimate their calorie input by 15-25%

5. It is also a sad fact that the machines at the gym are not accurate as far as cardio burn unless you are wearing a chest band, so if you are using a cardio workout as part of your resistance training, a good investment is a polar chest band. the one I use has a watch type monitor which can be preset for cardio rates and to beep or not when you drop below and various other features. (polar.com)

6. At my age, 61, my metabolism is probably slower and lower than that of a younger person. This means that I have to pretty much monitor everything I eat. It's all a matter of lifestyles I guess.

Anyway, yay for you for doing the ride, and good luck with your continued exploration of riding and weight loss. Take it day by day and if you ride, give yourself a small treat but keep it within your daily calorie limit or ride a few extra miles You're out there, you're hot and sweaty anyway, have your treat then ride another mile to keep the post ride burn going.

smooth roads and good tailwinds.

marni

[Reesha]

I strongly recommend the long duration leisurely rides for weight loss that others have mentioned before. They're amazing! Even rides at a higher intensity that are long have a powerful effect in my opinion. The night after a long ride-- like clockwork, I'm always burning up in bed because my body is still gobbling down calories like crazy. Still, I think if you can stay in the saddle and fuel throughout once per week sometime, it will be a good thing for your weight loss goals.

I'm thankful that the other coaches on the high school team I coach has agreed to do 40-60 mile rides each weekend through the winter for that reason I think I'll really see some solid losses over time and even over the last three weeks of 50 mile weekend rides I've had some amazing losses. (I've also been swimming for 30-45 minutes in the morning 4 days a week too)

Good luck, Roxy!!!

[cylegoddess]

Dont forget that if you do LOTS of cardio, you will burn muscle if you lack too many calories and are not incorporating weight training.This will cause your metabolism to drop, in time . You will peak after a while, as you can only do so much cardio. This is where you either have serous calorie lack( to keep losing ) or add weights.
This is what I have got from my Fitness instructor training.

[annielynn]

Lots of great advice and information. As someone who is looking to drop about 50lbs I am going really taking all this info in. There sure are some smart women on this board.

[tjf9]

I"ll jump in with my 2 cents also. I lost 70 pounds and have kept it off for 2+ years through a weight loss study that was comparing a low-carb (Atkins style) diet to a low fat diet (called DASH).

One of the researchers on the study has been doing weight related research for 20 years, and he had a really interesting perspective. In his experience, there were 2 key things to taking off weight and keeping it off for most people: food journalling and social support. That's it. The rest is personal preference.

Working out (whether it's walking 3x a week or cycling 6x a week) doesn't predict long term success, although it does seem to help. There is no one diet that has been proven to be better than another. The best diet and workout plan is the one that you can stick with. Find something that works for you and stick with it.

In my experience, food journalling and social support are the key. When my study went from weekly meetings to monthly meetings, I stopped writing down my food and had trouble keeping my weight stable - I would go up by 5 pounds and down by 4. I just joined Weight Watchers for the meetings, and started writing down my food again, and the 10+ pounds I had gained back have come back off.

Good luck finding the plan that works for you. There is no magic bullet, but with attention to what you eat, you can lose the weight you want.