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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catriona View Post
    Where exactly do you draw the line?
    I don't know, but I do know that a line must be drawn before we hold people accountable to one.
    Fall down six times, get up seven.
    My Blog/Journal: Fat Athlete

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by papaver View Post
    The only thing I know about her is that her trainer is Ekkart Arbeit. He is a former east-german coach who gave his athletes so much anabolic stereoids that at least one female athlete is now a man. Just google Heidi Krieger.
    Hmm.. now it should be interesting for test results. Thx for info. papaver. Hope he learned from his flawed "coaching"..to put it quite mildly.

    Whiteowl: As for my comments, it wasn't about race at all for the gender testing she is undertaking which the public is interested in now, ...but the hard reality how many ordinary folk are judging her ..appearance. People's opinions on what is "minimally" a female-looking woman is coloured by cultural, as well as pervasive mass media projections of what we think a woman should look like physiologically in terms of her face and body.

    Catriona has given some great examples on ...aiiiiiyaaah, on nose plastic surgery (sounds like Michael Jackson as the male extreme), breast implants, etc. A few months ago, I walked into a retail store close to home that is a Japanese-based home and personal care products. Saw a display of skin whitening cream ..explained in both English and Japanese. Groan.
    Last edited by shootingstar; 08-24-2009 at 03:28 PM.
    My Personal blog on cycling & other favourite passions.
    遙知馬力日久見人心 Over a long distance, you learn about the strength of your horse; over a long period of time, you get to know whatís in a personís heart.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
    Warning: OT....

    I was going to ignore you, Mr. Silver, but for some reason I feel compelled to respond.
    Glad you didn't ignore me (wouldn't have accomplished much...) AND I'm glad you did respond (I welcome discussion/debate about contrary views).

    Quote Originally Posted by Biciclista View Post
    I'm not blind to the advantages I've had for being caucasian in this crazy world we live.
    Mimi, that's interesting since I recall you're Italian...and I am too. Frankly, it's been my experience that Italians tend to be viewed as "2nd Class" among "Caucasian" people...add to that the fact that I'm "vertically challenged" and not athletic makes me an additional potential object of scorn among my own gender. I don't feel that I have had any advantage except that I was by God's grace adopted by loving parents at the age of 4 days, was well educated, graduated in the top 10% of my class AND practiced HARD to interview well.

    At the core, even the most challenged have found the road to success...
    Last edited by Mr. Bloom; 08-24-2009 at 04:36 PM.
    If you don't grow where you're planted, you'll never BLOOM - Will Rogers

  4. #64
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    Italians are second class?

    I thought everyone claims to be italian and irish. The latter around saint patty's day, of course.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catriona View Post
    Italians are second class?
    Absolutely not Just to the uninformed...
    If you don't grow where you're planted, you'll never BLOOM - Will Rogers

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Silver View Post
    Glad you didn't ignore me (wouldn't have accomplished much...) AND I'm glad you did respond (I welcome discussion/debate about contrary views).


    Mimi, that's interesting since I recall you're Italian...and I am too. Frankly, it's been my experience that Italians tend to be viewed as "2nd Class" among "Caucasian" people...add to that the fact that I'm "vertically challenged" and not athletic makes me an additional potential object of scorn among my own gender. I don't feel that I have had any advantage except that I was by God's grace adopted by loving parents at the age of 4 days, was well educated, graduated in the top 10% of my class AND practiced HARD to interview well.

    At the core, even the most challenged have found the road to success...
    A couple of links for you, Mr. Silver. white privilege Owning unearned white privilege

    Karen
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    insidious ungovernable cardboard

  7. #67
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    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  8. #68
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    Italians were not considered white at one time, this is true. But they are now.
    The fact that people were crowing about Scalia being the first Italian supreme court justice is proof that someone is still paying attention. And being married to a W.A.S.P. makes my Italian-ness not obvious anyway.
    I'm talking about the way I have been treated compared to people who are Black or Asian. I've always been pretty sensitive to these things.
    this is from Life Magazine 1911
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    Last edited by Biciclista; 08-24-2009 at 07:32 PM.
    I like Bikes - Mimi
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biciclista View Post
    I'm talking about the way I have been treated compared to people who are Black or Asian. I've always been pretty sensitive to these things.
    Understood

    However, I believe we're much closer to a world of people succeeding on merit than we were 30 years ago. I believe that, because I see it everyday and believe it's time to push forward and not back...

    But, I'll let it rest. Sorry for the hijack.
    If you don't grow where you're planted, you'll never BLOOM - Will Rogers

  10. #70
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    Apparently tests have shown that her male hormone levels are 3 times higher than normal

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21622252/

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Silver View Post
    Understood

    However, I believe we're much closer to a world of people succeeding on merit than we were 30 years ago. I believe that, because I see it everyday and believe it's time to push forward and not back...

    But, I'll let it rest. Sorry for the hijack.
    But did you read the links?

    Do yourself a favor and read the links.

    You can't push forward until you acknowledge the past.

    Karen
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    insidious ungovernable cardboard

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckervill View Post
    But did you read the links?

    Do yourself a favor and read the links.

    You can't push forward until you acknowledge the past.

    Karen
    Thanks for those links, Karen!
    I like Bikes - Mimi
    Watercolor Blog

    Davidson Custom Bike - Cavaletta
    Dahon 2009 Sport - Luna
    Old Raleigh Mixte - Mitzi

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckervill View Post
    A couple of links for you, Mr. Silver. white privilege Owning unearned white privilege

    Karen
    These links were excellent.

    I was reminded of when I was 18 or 19, and returning home from travelling alone in Eastern Europe, mostly hiking in the mountains in Romania. I had met and seen so many people with vastly reduced choices compared to me, and been met with everything from adulation to hostility. I remember very vividly the feeling of stepping onto the air-conditioned, clean, quiet, well-functioning train home, and realizing how massively privileged I was.
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

    1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckervill View Post
    Do yourself a favor and read the links.

    You can't push forward until you acknowledge the past.
    I skimmed them, and they're the same stuff I've known and was "learned" (how do you learn something you already know?) in certain classes at the university.

    I used to use an analogy to people claiming that everyone has the same opportunity to succeed, pointing to people who successfully pulled themselves out of ghettos, both figurative and literal. The analogy involved two runners (seriously), one with a flat course to run and one with obstacles (puddles to slosh through, hills to climb, stuff to crawl under). In this race, can the one running the obstacle course win? Sure, some particularly talented people would end up successful no matter what. But, overall, it's clear that the runners on the smooth course have a distinct advantage. You can't point at the few obstacle course winners and say, "See? Equal opportunity!"

    Nevertheless, that said, I'll respond to your closing remark with:

    You can't move forward while you're only looking behind you.
    Fall down six times, get up seven.
    My Blog/Journal: Fat Athlete

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by papaver View Post
    Apparently tests have shown that her male hormone levels are 3 times higher than normal

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21622252/
    So all our wailing and gnashing of teeth about discrimination based on appearance may have been based on naught...

    Tests carried out before the start of the World Athletics Championships proved the 800m gold medallist had very high levels of the male hormone, according to sources close to the investigation.

    It is believed this information led to the IAAF's decision to ask the South African athletics body to carry out a detailed "gender verification" test on the athlete.
    Well, it was an interesting intellectual exercise nonetheless.
    Fall down six times, get up seven.
    My Blog/Journal: Fat Athlete

 

 

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