Some serious thoughts on "Not Rape"

[Dianyla]

Thank you for posting this, SK.

[andtckrtoo]

I was just watching CBS this morning and they had a segment on about Mike Tyson and the new film out about him. I was reminded of this thread when the commentary said, "Yes, he abused women, but he really was a tragic figure."
It was as if the commentator was saying that it was okay that Tyson abused women because he had such a tragic life.

With those kinds of attitudes being broadcast on a show like CBS News Sunday Morning its no wonder this kind of abuse is so prevalent. It's sickening, really.

[OakLeaf]

Thanks for the post, SK.

Do you think a teenager could appreciate it? It seems more directed at adult women who've already had (at least) three or four of these experiences AND the time and maturity to process them. I have a 16 year old niece...

[Biciclista]

good luck getting across to teenagers. Recently some teenaged idol beat the cr@p out of his girlfriend. and all the teenaged girls, fans, could say was either "I don't believe it" or "she deserved it" SHE DESERVED TO BE BEATEN?? unfortunately "progress" is two steps forward followed by 3 steps back.
We used to call this Date rape, not "NOT RAPE" hello?
and those underaged girls? that's statutory rape. no NOT about it.
yes, a good article.

[shootingstar]

Thanks for the post, SK.

Do you think a teenager could appreciate it? It seems more directed at adult women who've already had (at least) three or four of these experiences AND the time and maturity to process them. I have a 16 year old niece...

While the abuse has been around for centuries...the biggest difference now, are additional electronic tools --Internet, email provides more options by evildoers to access the unsuspecting victims, etc.

The tougher part is explaining or helping others develop radar/alertness how to gauge situations that begin as harmless or borderline strange verging on wierd behaviour that eventually could lead to worse stuff.

A few years ago, I was humming a childhood ditty and suddenly I realized the alternate meaning of the words could be. It was song as a child sung in playgrounds that I grew up in:

Hello, hello sir...
Can you come and play sir?
No sir,
why sir?
......

Now I call it the pedaphile song. But that time as a child, I never thought to think of the possible double meaning of the song.

[Trek420]

I was just watching CBS this morning and they had a segment on about Mike Tyson and the new film out about him. I was reminded of this thread when the commentary said, "Yes, he abused women, but he really was a tragic figure."
It was as if the commentator was saying that it was okay that Tyson abused women because he had such a tragic life.

There are a lot of people who have tragic lives, even more so than Tyson's and overcome, recover and have functioning relationships and are good parents so on. I'm sure there are examples in pro sports. Media should feature them and the people who helped them and spend less time excusing an abuser. Media should spend some time on those who overcome tremendous odds to become good parents.

Since this is a cycling discussion board maybe they could have a spot on folks who "rode their bike and found solace from a tragic childhood".

"I had an unhappy childhood" is never an excuse for violence. If someone is attacking me in any way I really don't want to know or care about your unhappy childhood I just want the violence to stop.

[SadieKate]

Thanks for the post, SK.

Do you think a teenager could appreciate it? It seems more directed at adult women who've already had (at least) three or four of these experiences AND the time and maturity to process them. I have a 16 year old niece...

I think it would have made a difference to the teen-aged-me. My parents talked to me about what not to do but never about what to do. As in "don't open the door to anyone if you're home alone" but never about going into immediate self-defense mode, screaming and fighting, and then reporting to the authorities. The incident in high school? It was during the school day at the end of the next building over from my father's classroom. My parents hadn't discussed possible assault in broad daylight at school. I doubted my own actions (did I invite them?) and I certainly wasn't prepared to deal with it.

I was also a good enough reader in 5th grade that, with parental discussion, would have benefited from that article. Other than the "don't open the door" discussion, there was no discussion at all of possible risks until the summer before my sophomore year in college. Honest to goodness, they could have just handed me that article anytime after puberty hit and it would have made a difference to how I handled the incidents.

[maillotpois]

Good article.

I don't think it would sink in at all to my daughter yet, but it is certainly a good reminder to all who parent or are close to teenagers/pre-teens that we need to remain very (overly) involved in their lives and aware of what is going on.

[Tuckervill]

My parents hadn't discussed possible assault in broad daylight at school.

Do you really think they could have anticipated that? From a 10 year old?

I don't remember now if your parents were ever told what happened...but I feel for them, either way. If they know I am sure they were heartsick when they found out, and if they don't, I'm sure they would be.

It's possible one of my sons was molested (I can't get him to talk about "it" whatever "it" is), and the way and place it might have happened could not have been anticipated by me or anyone. I didn't even get enough information to suspect it until 7 or 8 years after the fact. I'm heartsick about it every time I think of it, and I would have done something had I known, but I didn't. I'm sure your parents would be, too.

I'm heartsick it happened to you.

Karen

[SadieKate]

Do you really think they could have anticipated that? From a 10 year old?

I don't remember now if your parents were ever told what happened...but I feel for them, either way. If they know I am sure they were heartsick when they found out, and if they don't, I'm sure they would be.

It's possible one of my sons was molested (I can't get him to talk about "it" whatever "it" is), and the way and place it might have happened could not have been anticipated by me or anyone. I didn't even get enough information to suspect it until 7 or 8 years after the fact. I'm heartsick about it every time I think of it, and I would have done something had I known, but I didn't. I'm sure your parents would be, too.

I'm heartsick it happened to you.

Karen

Karen, my family comes from a long line of teachers (of all ages). How could they not know that boys grope girls in school? It didn't really traumatize me so don't be heartsick, but I could certainly have been better equipped to deal with the boy right then and there. It was college before I found the confidence to verbally and physically defend myself (much to the embarrassment of the guy who kept swatting my behind with the dorm cafeteria tray).

Does your son have someone he would talk about this with? Sometimes, a parent is not the first person you want to talk with. I know the parent wants it to be that way, but sometimes it needs to be someone else.

[Tuckervill]

They just wouldn't have anticipated it happening to you, is all. No parent wants to think that those things happen to their own children.

My son is 25, and I've offered to get him professional counseling many times over the past 10 years or so. He has friends, has had girlfriends. I've done all I can do. I won't nag him, short of reiterating when appropriate that I'm here to help him to seek help if he ever wants it.

My parents couldn't have anticipated that one of my older brother's friends would expose his genitals to me when I was 8. I knew it was wrong already. We can't warn our children about every possibility--all we can do is hope to pass on the principles we hope will protect them, and lead them to do the right thing.

Karen

[bikerz]

I've been thinking about that essay, and this thread, and and other similar things I've read, all day.

The taunting and harassment of girls by boys is both tacitly and explicitly accepted. I was teased, pushed, pinched and generally hassled by boys in elementary school -- it was clear to me that complaining to the teacher would just lead to worse teasing, so after a few incidents I told my dad and he said "that's just what boys do when they like you." Uh huh. This made absolutely no sense to me, but if it was true, it was something I wanted nothing to do with, so I didn't complain anymore and just tried to avoid the boys, and therefore the trouble.

I'm sure I'm not the only girl who got that message from teachers and parents that boys were rough and mean and there was no point in expecting them to behave respectfully to girls. But the boys got an important lesson too: they didn't need to control their behavior - they could harass girls with impunity. (This whole "boys will be boys" excuse gets converted later into the idea that men can't be expected to control themselves sexually, and is at the root of the enormously offensive and false idea that the way a women dresses or acts provokes assault or rape.)

There are many kind and respectful men in my life, and I'm thankful for that, but reading the news, hearing about the experiences of the author of the essay, or of friends of mine, and my own experience as victim of a violent assault, I feel like these men I know are the minority. The world is full of violent and abusive men. How will it ever change?

Well, here's one way: my parents could have told me "Little BikerZ, it's outrageous that you were treated that way, and we're going to talk to the principal and teacher right this minute." And the principal could have made sure those boys knew that their behavior was unacceptable. And their parents would have sat them down and talked to them, and maybe those boys would see that the girls in their class were human beings, just like them, and worthy of the respect and dignity due every human being. And they would have realized that they themselves were damaged when they treated other human beings so badly.

And the next time a boy mistreated a girl (or another boy*, for that matter), the other kids would stop it, instead of encouraging him. And those once-abusive boys might have grown up to be the kind of men I'm lucky to have in my life. And all the girls could have grown up to feel fully valued as human beings, and safe from male violence. It seems like a crazy fantasy, actually, but for the sake of my little niece and nephew, and all the little kids in my life, I hope it is possible.

Because it's not the schoolyard teasing and taunts that have had the long-lasting impact in my life (and the lives of my friends) -- it's the actions of the men those bullying and abusive boys grew up to be.


Wow, I'm on a tear with these long posts - that essay got me really riled up!

* I think it is not a coincidence that some of the best men I know were bullied and teased in school themselves.

[Trek420]

I'm not an alarmist, more a bit of a pragmatic realist. Right now there are fewer resources to prosecute, control, educate, reform. I'm not suggesting we form us up a posse and hunt the perps down and hang 'em high either (though the idea has it's attractions).

But in some ways this is up to each one of us:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/200...4/18591105.php

[crazycanuck]

Mimi-i'm sure that not all teens would be in support of the comments made about the teenage idol. Surely, there must be some sensible teens out there that think rationally.

Surely..?

Surely, some parents may have instilled values into thier kids. We just don't hear about them becuase it doesn't make $$ for the networks.

Someone restore my belief that today's teens have some sense.

[andtckrtoo]

I have a 16 yo daughter who thinks that celebrity who beat up his girlfriend deserves to be strung up my his toe nails and maimed. (Or at least put away for a long time). But I think a lot of the girls and boys right now are basing their ideas on the music of the times. I know each older generation says this of the younger, but seriously - have you listened to some of the rap music out there? It's horrid! Not all of it, of course, but enough is that it's not that surprising to me that girls think it's okay, too.