Snow...

[salsabike]

We have it. Three inches tonight. I want to go on record as saying this just isn't funny anymore. Arghh. I hope Greg Nickles is getting right out there with his shovel and clearing our streets.

[Eden]

C'mon the mayor didn't make it snow....

They even bought some salt and are spreading it tonight. The way I see it, unless our weather patterns really change the kind of snow we had two weeks ago is a once every 20 or so year event, so I don't expect the city to be completely prepared or well practiced to deal with it. (and to be honest I don't think it would be a particularly good use of the city's money to be that prepared for such a rare event....) In any case this time it should be gone relatively quickly. Down here at least it should be gone come morning.

[NbyNW]

The Times says it's supposed to rain/melt away by morning. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[salsabike]

Eden, I disagree. There's a middle ground between being underprepared, which the city was, and being overprepared for our climate. It is not responsible to have practices that leave elderly, ill, and poor people trapped in their homes for two weeks. You know, a lot of the people who missed work just don't...get paid--they can't take sick days or leave days. They're just out the money. Not every elderly or ill person has neighbors who can help. It's just dangerous and unnecessary to have the city shut down that long. They can do a better job without prepping like Minneapolis, and they need to do a better job. And it happens more than once every 20 years.

Yes, it'll be gone by morning, this time.

[Biciclista]

well, it wasn't gone, but at least it was tame enough for me to drive up the hill in a car without chains. and once i got on the main road, it was clear.

And had good snow to make snowmen too last night.

and the city of Seattle has discovered SALT!

[SadieKate]

Oh goody. Now Seattle can kill off the vegetation and destroy their concrete bridges Haven't they heard of cinder and plowing? How about mag chloride?

[Biciclista]

as often as we get snow, i hardly think this is going to ruin our vegetation and bridges.

[SadieKate]

Hmm, how many weeks of snow have you already had this winter (and last)? When there are other less corrosive chemicals easily available why risk needing to spend more taxes on road repair and city landscaping? It just seems soooo easy.

Of course, as we all know, once precedence is set, those guvmint habits are incredibly easy to change.

[Biciclista]

not to worry, there's not enough money for this to continue. we were told that salt costs 6x more than sand.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hmm, how many weeks of snow have you already had this winter (and last)? When there are other less corrosive chemicals easily available why risk needing to spend more taxes on road repair and city landscaping? It just seems soooo easy.

Hey SK, I know, maybe they should scatter chemical foot warmer packets all over the roads to melt the ice! Then they could just sweep them up later. No salt to harm the environment!

[Biciclista]

or they could do what they already did this winter, allow the snow to get to be 10 inches deep on the road and then throw sand on the top! kind of like a bundt cake.

[SadieKate]

Hey SK, I know, maybe they should scatter chemical foot warmer packets all over the roads to melt the ice! Then they could just sweep them up later. No salt to harm the environment!

Meanwhile, I use lots of layers of wool and other insulation materials and do the best I can with that.

Ah, yes. But then I didn't imply that hand warmers were the only solution.

Cinder is not damaging and basalt rock can be swept up and re-used. If you'd ever seen (and recognized) the tree damage from salt in a area of the country (the entire west) already under assault from the pine beetle, you may not find it so funny. We're doing a damn fine job of killing off our forests.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Who's saying that anything is the 'only solution'? There is no only solution to any of this-
not wool, not hand warmers, not cinder, not salt....

There is salt damage here in the East, for sure. (have you seen -or recognized- our Eastern road surfaces? ...if you can call them surfaces)
Over the years highway depts all over the country have tried varying combinations of methods to clear the roads and make them travel safe during the winter....plowing, sanding/cinder/ash, salting, other chemicals of every kind. Or Seattle's recent tactic of not doing much of anything, hoping it would melt quickly.
Every few years another 'better solution' is touted, only to be found later to cause an entirely different set of problems. I do not think the best solution has yet been found. Using just gravel or sand (or cinder?) doesn't work for every ice/snow situation either. Usually over here a combination of ice/snow tactics is used depending on the weather conditions. Salt is used much more sparingly than in the past. Add to this whole mess the state of the economy now, where there is so much less public funding for road and infrastructure maintenance and repair. It's a tough situation across the country.

You don't need to tell me about tree damage from salt and insect plagues...my entomologist daughter did research at Cornell here in NY to find solutions to the Asian Longhorn beetle's vast destruction, also working to solve the mystery of honeybee parasitic die-offs. She used to tell me all about her work. I instilled in her a love of insects and forests by taking her out into the woods myself when she was little, observing spiders and insects, collecting mushrooms, and identifying plants and birds. If you think I am laughing about the destruction of forests, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[SadieKate]

Who's saying that anything is the 'only solution'? There is no only solution to any of this-
not wool, not hand warmers, not cinder, not salt....

Sorry, Lisa, I didn't see that you intended humor in the hand warmers on the roads statement, just like I don't see any humble discussion in "Meanwhile, I use lots of layers of wool and other insulation materials and do the best I can with that." I truly read it as superior martyrdom based on environmental concern rather than concern for someone's health and safety. I thought Sarabeth shared a product that helped her with this and you criticized it for environmental reasons. Would I use a packet for shoveling snow? Yes, when necessary. I can keep my hands warm skiing and cycling in very cold temps, but shoveling snow can be excruciating. Like many, I've had some frostbite scares and risking permanent damage because of refusal to use a more effective but marginally less environmentally friendly solution isn't an option. That's how I read your statement.

I'm not condoning Seattle's lack of action, but there are plenty of easily obtainable solutions other than salt, so there are equally effective and less environmentally damaging options (unlike plastic bags vs hand/foot warmers ). And this said living in a community that doesn't plow unless a single storm drops more than 4" at a time, so accumulation can get significant.

So, now that you've clarified your humor and your humility, I'll express mine.

I gotta say I feel sorry for the PNW residents who are completely unprepared for living in the cold snowy depths -- and the road, law enforcement and medical personnel who are trying to help everyone. We drove to and back from SLC during these storms and it was dang scary. Stupidly, the better the conditions, the more overconfidant the drivers became. Idjits.

[SadieKate]

By the way, I hope Seattle's budget is providing handwarmers galore to all the law enforcement, utility and road crews.