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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Marin County CA
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    Question Puppy: pros and cons

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    I was going to take the leash thread I started on a tangent, but decided to start a new...... as of last week, we are CONSIDERING adopting a puppy!! I haven't had a puppy in about 18 years. I think I may have blocked out what raising a puppy is like. (I do recall losing a $200 pair of Bally patent/suede pumps to Meg's chewing. )

    This puppy is a 2 - 3 month old Guide dog "career change" yellow lab I saw when going to pick up our current dog Russo from a medical appointment at GDB (Guide Dogs for the Blind - Russo is a stud for them) last week. He is so darling. The guy who is fostering him and the woman at GDB say he is the best puppy they have ever had.

    I feel like we are leaving Em alone so much (Saturdays) for our team training rides, and this experience we had with dogs attacking Russo has convinced me she cannot walk Russo alone - it is just not safe for either of them. (Intact male dogs on a leash are a target for off leash dogs.) So I envision her taking this new puppy for walks, being the one taking him to obedience school, etc. She's 12, responsible, good, wants to be a vet, is beginning an internship at the SF Zoo. I think it would be a good experience. I also feel like the coming teen years are going to be so tough and having something that she is so responsible for would be good. Plus, Russo is 8 - god forbid anything happens to him, but I have to be realistic.

    The realities I probably need to think more about: crates, housebreaking (they say he is perfectly crate trained already. I didn't use a crate with Meg. I don't even know what that means. ), chewing, waking us up at night, having to figure out how to deal with him on the days I am not working at home (possibly family can let him out of the crate, maybe I can bring him with me, maybe a dog walker can come). I know he's only got 4 - 5 months before he can be out in the yard and none of the logistical stuff will be as difficult. (I cannot put puppy out with Russo unsupervised til puppy is tutored - I mean neutered.)

    Anyone want to talk me out of it? I talk to the woman at GDB tomorrow.
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    225
    My question is why is he a "career change" and why is the foster parent no longer fostering if he is such a good puppy?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Marin County CA
    Posts
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    Oh it's just GDB terminology.

    Career change are dogs who for various reasons are not becoming guides. This puppy had an operation, but is now fine. Career change covers a wide variety of things, and they're pretty restrictive on which dogs are actually selected as guides. Some 30+% of all their puppies career change out.

    Fostering is a temporary housing for a dog waiting for adoption - to get the puppy out of the kennel and into a real home while it is waiting for placement. The foster will continue to happily foster him til he is placed.

    These are not negative things about the pup.
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
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    9,324
    If Em is up for the responsibility, I say go for it. He will be her dog, which is kind of cool.

    V.
    Discipline is remembering what you want.


    TandemHearts.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Marin County CA
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    She is up for it - and that was exactly what I was thinking. Her dog. I don't dare tell her til it is a done deal. There's a pretty extensive interview process, and they have to observe Russo and the puppy together.

    I got Mike over the hurdle. I see that as the biggest step.
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    26
    I agree with Veronica. Can you sit down with your daughter and kind of make it her choice? She's obviously very interested in animals... And if you're worried about the same attack problem happening with the new dog, maybe you could have him fixed?

    I just scrolled back up to write in a little warning here. I'm about to go off on a rant about how awesome it is to work with dogs. This might be something you already know, or have NO interest in, but here it goes :
    I have two dogs myself, that were both rescued. We had one for 5 years before we got the other one. They were pretty "screwed up", from what had happened to them before they were rescued, and especially the last one required a lot of training work (in addition to my home cooked doggie psychotherapy ).

    The reason I'm bringing this up, is that I just want to share how very rewarding the process of training has been. Since this puppy is a "clean slate", he would probably really fun for your daughter to train! I really can't say enough about the bond you create with a dog doing this.

    I have done positive only training (kind of a must with abused dogs...) and used a clicker. We have a loose knit training community where I live. The "leader" is a wonderful woman trained in positive training. Your daughter might love something like this!

    Ok, that's the end of my rant.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Traveling Nomad
    Posts
    6,763
    My DH and I just got a Boston Terrier puppy, Paisley, around Easter. We adore her, but it's been a major lifestyle change as well! For the first 2 weeks, we walked around in a daze of sleepiness, being overwhelmed, and wondering "what have we done?" She only woke us up in the night to go out in the first week (age 7-8 weeks), so that ended very quickly and will not be something you'd likely have to deal with. We don't have children, and we hadn't had a puppy for 16 years (we were a wee bit younger then ), so the biggest adjustment has been just having to make sure that someone is watching her at all times, unless she's sleeping in her crate. Puppies can get into trouble in an instant, and so we trade off playing with her, keeping an eye on her, and just generally being the "responsible" one. Our time is no longer our own, and that takes some getting used to!

    We've gotten a lot less done since she came home with us. Doing projects, gardening, etc. with her around is nearly impossible unless she's napping. Computer time has been cut way back to spend time with her (she's napping now). She chews *everything*, so having tons of toys around to stick in her mouth and distract her with, and not leaving things around that we don't want her to chew, has been a must.

    Still, we wouldn't trade it -- she's a delight, nearly always amusing, even though she can be frustrating at times. But our lifestyle is much better than many folks have for a puppy -- my DH is retired so spends loads of time with her, we have a fenced area for her, and hiking trails in the woods on our 11-acre property, which minimizes some of the challenges. Only you can weigh the decision for you. We definitely had our moments of remorse, but those were quickly squelched as she stole our hearts.

    Paisley turned 13 weeks yesterday, and while she's not *perfect* in her training, she knows "sit", "stay", "come", and "down" already; hasn't had an accident in the house in awhile (and only one in her crate ever), and she's getting better all the time on the leash. If you do decide to go for it, I highly recommend the book Mother Knows Best: The Natural Way to Train Your Dog by Carol Benjamin. It has helped us immensely.

    Let us know what you do!

    Emily
    Emily

    2011 Jamis Dakar XC "Toto" - Selle Italia Ldy Gel Flow
    2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 WSD "Gloria" - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow
    2004 Bike Friday Petite Pocket Crusoe - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Marin County CA
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    Thanks for the good responses!

    We are definitely up for training. I went through very serious obedience training with my last puppy. Russo came to us fully trained, but Em is constantly trying to train her grandparents' incorrigible dogs (they are incorrigible in a good sense. Loving, but they get no reinforcement from the people they live with ) I see the Marin humane Society will take handlers over 12 in their classes, so that is good.

    Emily - I am not even sure what crate training entails. Do they stay in there at night? During the day sometimes? (I used a tie down with my puppy. I don't think "crate training" had been invented then.)
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    1,414

    Puppies: Pros & Cons

    Pros:
    1. Snuggly
    2. Wiggly
    3. Kissy
    4. Cuddly
    5. Warm
    6. Loyal
    7. Instinctively know when you are upset
    8. Smart, cute & funny
    9. Will bark at intruders
    10. Soft bellies, noses and ears. Tendency to fall asleep with all four legs pointing straight up.

    Cons:
    1. Get hungry, need to be walked, and need attention regardless of your work schedule or social life.
    2. Like kids, will develop bad habits if you let them.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    4,516
    MP - Essentially, dogs are in the crate when 1) you're sleeping 2) you're not home or 3) you can't watch them. It sounds cruel, but we've done it with 4 dogs, and have had really good results. Our golden is now crate free - at 3 (and has been for about 6 months). For the last few months of his crate, he'd head for the crate when he got sleepy (now he gets under my edge of the bed). Helps immensely with house training (dogs won't go in their crate b/c they see it as their den), and keeps pup out of trouble.

    CA
    Most days in life don't stand out, But life's about those days that will...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    130
    I think its an ideal situation. It sounds like your daughter is up for the responsibility. I think it would be great for her to have her "own" dog. We have a 9 year old lab and got a new yellow lab pup in October. He is now 9 months and it has been excellent. Oscar (old man) has really put Wally in his place and showed him the ropes.

    I do warn you the first 3 months were wicked...with a capital "W." Its like having a toddler around. You are on watch at all times! Now...6 months later he is great. He still chews and does some puppy stuff but he has a good foundation of training and building on it every day. I forgot how much excercise a young dog needs. My old man doesn't need as much now but the pup has to get a good run/walk in everyday.

    The crate is excellent. My pup will put himself to bed at night when he gets tired because he knows its his "safe" spot. I don't let the kids play in/with his crate so he knows its his den. The only time he is in it now is at night when we sleep and when he needs to be contained (very rarely). He travels in it because its safer and keeps my car somewhat cleaner. When he was a little pup he was in there when we couldn't watch him....going out, shower, etc... Now I have gates set up keeping him in the kitchen and family room...rarely close them now because he knows his boundaries and doesn't come in unless invited.

    If your daughter is interested she should look into the Delta Society for pet therapy certification. If he was bred as a guide dog prospect he would be a good candidate because of the temperment. It would also be excellent for your daughter because you work together as a team. She has to learn to be a good handler and would gain confidence while helping others. Oscar was certified at 3 and we have visited everything from hospitals to high schools.

    Overall go for it! I hope you get approved. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I love having an active pup in the house...he definitely keeps things interesting! Good Luck and let me know if you have any questions regarding the crate stuff.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    130
    Oh I love when they fall asleep with all four legs in the air! Love it!! Here is another reason....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Marin County CA
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    OMG Nic - that is exactly what our dogs would look like! Russo is black tinged with gray, just like your older dog. Oh that just pushed me over the edge. I have to show that photo to DH.

    CA and Nic thank you SO much for the helpful tips re the crate. Good to know - especially the not letting the kid play in/around it.
    Sarah

    When it's easy, ride hard; when it's hard, ride easy.


    2011 Volagi Liscio
    2010 Pegoretti Love #3 "Manovelo"
    2011 Mercian Vincitore Special
    2003 Eddy Merckx Team SC - stolen
    2001 Colnago Ovalmaster Stars and Stripes

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,548
    crate training is the next best thing to sliced bread when it comes to dogs. You always have a safe place for the dog, too, and it's THEIRS.
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Traveling Nomad
    Posts
    6,763
    Just to add to the crate training info...our first Boston Terrier, Pepper, we started with the crate at puppyhood, and she did wonderfully with it. As an adult, she'd go in it voluntarily when she needed "alone" time or when she was ill. And we'd put her in it if we happened to have a situation (like a toddler visiting) that we needed to restrain her. With few exceptions like those, after she was housetrained, she only went in the crate to sleep at night. DH did not want a dog or dogs in our bed, and I ended up being so glad he was a stickler about that as we only have a queen-sized bed, and this gives us a lot more room and peace (Boston Terriers snore!)

    If you start your dog with the crate when s/he is a pup, they really come to enjoy being in their crate and see it as a place of refuge. Pepper was so good she'd stay in there, once housetrained, in the morning until we got up, even if it was 8 am or later (on weekends) without making a peep. Paisley stays in until 7 am now already (I haven't tried to push the envelope yet) so long as we let her out one last time at 11pm, and doesn't have accidents. She's not crazy about going in it during the day, but when we do have to put her in there for a short while when we can't watch her, she will settle down after some initial whining/yipping.

    Emily
    Emily

    2011 Jamis Dakar XC "Toto" - Selle Italia Ldy Gel Flow
    2007 Trek Pilot 5.0 WSD "Gloria" - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow
    2004 Bike Friday Petite Pocket Crusoe - Selle Italia Diva Gel Flow

 

 

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