Loner Manners?

[gnat23]

"You enjoying the view back there?" (This has embarrassed a few folks enough to get off my butt)

I felt bad one day when I was leap-frogging some dude on my usual commute route, but to my credit: I was doing intervals! So he'd pass me calmly, and then like a minute later I'd zip by like a bank robbery gone bad. Then he'd catch up and pass me again... he must have thought I was insane!

-- gnat!

[Grog]

I agree with Spokewench in theory, however there's no way my ride is going to be the same if there is someone behind me that crashes because they hit my rear wheel. Being at the front gives me lots of responsibilities, and I am not always willing to assume those responsibilities. If I'm riding casually, it's one thing. If I'm training and going at high speed/high effort (as mentioned by the original poster), it's another story.

In Montreal on the F1 Grand Prix course road cyclists tend to get together on summer evenings and ride in very fast pacelines together (30 mph, sometimes more). It's relatively flat, but there are some sharp turns and some inclines that can bring cyclists to stand up, or pedals to hit the pavement, with catastrophic effects for all involved. One night when I was there there was a crash and one cyclist died at the scene. Not a nice way to finish an evening.

When I went there to train, and joined the pacelines, I knew that it was dangerous (and exhilarating!). I trusted some people but certainly not everyone, and especially not strangers. It worked the other way around: I would not have tried to join a paceline with people I didn't know. If someone I did not want in my paceline joined us, and we couldn't get rid of him/her (usually him) (at that kind of pace, there are no kind words or gentle educational methods, just orders barked over shoulders in heavy wind), I'd just peel off and finish the workout on my own.

I feel the same when I'm training on the open road, although of course the risk is much less if there are only two - not twenty - people involved.

I also agree with Lisa's point of view regarding possibly creepy strangers. Not everyone wants to have company on the road, especially not company that requires attention (signals etc. are attention).

[Meaux]

Don't forget that when you're the passer, please SAY SOMETHING to let the passee know you're there. Otherwise the passee might swerve around a pothole or something and not know you're there and wham, down you both go.

Amen to that!! So often do people neglect to say "On your left" or something similar when they are passing. Inconsiderate cyclists make me eversogrouchy.

[tulip]

I know that it's the person in the rear who would go down, if tires touched...

That's how I got to ride in a Life Flight helicopter, although I don't remember it...

[ttaylor508]

The only person I draft off us is DH. He is a very strong and fast rider and really, its the only way I can keep up with him. We typically pick up a lot of riders on group rides, mostly guys, and the only time it bothers me is when they try to cut my wheel to get right behind him. I don't leave any space for them to cut in, they simply drift to the right to push me over. This happens so often that I finally convinced DH that we need matching Jerseys so people realize we are together. He has no clue this is happening while he is up front and it wasn't until last years double century that we did with a friend and our friend (who rode behind me the whole time) mentioned the problem to him that he realized it was an issue. (I am drifting now, not drafting.....)

When I am alone I don't draft off of strangers and it really doesn't bother me if they catch my wheel for a while. The only time it every bothered me was when this huge guy got on my wheel and was pounding massive gears to keep up. I figured if he hit my wheel we were both going down.

Anyhow, I think Blondiebiker's original post had more to do with how close is too close. I would say stay two to three bike lengths back if you are pacing (going the same speed as the other rider), thats just my two cents though and it sounds like some might still be uncomfortable with that distance.

[OakLeaf]

This thread is making me think that everyone should get in some good paceline practice.

Obviously it's easier to learn when you're young and full o' beans. And it may be harder for slower riders to find a group of people who want to ride paceline.

But the basic skills are ones that every rider should work on periodically. Maintaining a consistent speed; holding your line; signaling hazards both verbally and with hand signals; bike-handling skills and reflexes; group manners; listening to one's own body to know when to hand off the pull. Whether one normally rides alone or with others, it's important to have all these skills for traffic situations, and sympathetic pacelines of riders of similar abilities are one really good place to develop the skills.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

This thread is making me think that everyone should get in some good paceline practice....

Whether one normally rides alone or with others, it's important to have all these skills for traffic situations, and sympathetic pacelines of riders of similar abilities are one really good place to develop the skills.

I have developed some very good traffic and safety riding skills while riding with my husband, with occasional friends, and alone. I have absolutely no desire to ride in pacelines, whether for 'practice' or any other reason.

But it's good idea for people who like to ride bicycles like that.

[maillotpois]

Even if you don't "plan" to ride in pacelines, it's still a great idea from a bike handling perspective to know how to do it, and how to ride safely in a group.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Even if you don't "plan" to ride in pacelines, it's still a great idea from a bike handling perspective to know how to do it, and how to ride safely in a group.

One can develop very safe 'group riding' skills without developing safe 'paceline riding' skills. They are not the same thing, though they may have many aspects in common. It's totally ok if you think it's a 'great idea' for everyone to practice paceline skills. I feel differently and will work on the skills I feel are relevant to my biking and beneficial to me personally.

[maillotpois]

I know they're not the same skills (that's why I used the "and" ). They do complement each other and we teach both to our riders for safety purposes more than anything. But if it's not for you, it's not for you.

[Brandy]

I've been watching this thread for quite a while and I'm sorry, but I just don't really get it. Drafting is a part of this sport - I will usually say hi to someone that I am going the same speed as when I'm out on a ride or event, because I'm a fairly friendly person, but someone drafting on my back wheel JUST DOES NOT BOTHER ME! I

Spoke, I'm right there with you.

[mkidd]

My triathlon coach had us do a paceline workout last year. I never knew how potentially dangerous it was. I prefer more space as I'm not a really strong rider, but in reading this thread I'm glad she had us do it.

[Crankin]

Well, I understand why someone would say everyone should practice paceline skills, but like Lisa, there's no way I want to do that. I ride in groups, but it's not paceline riding. Most of the people have good skills, but one group I ride with, many don't. I know who to stay away from. The rides my husband and I lead are more social. I am strict about "single file," calling out, and signaling. If someone doesn't like it, then they don't need to come on my rides!
Last year SheFly asked me to come to her club's paceline clinic. I am just too afraid to do that. It doesn't make me a bad rider; I am not a racer and the only one I want to draft is my husband, so we can ride together. Even then, I stay back a little.

[Brandy]

I was thinking about this post last night and wondering why the drafting thing just didn't bother me when it seems to be an issue with so many people here. Maybe it's because there are A LOT of cyclists here and at any given time that I'm on the coast riding, chances are I will come upon another person who hangs behind me for awhile, or vice versa. I'm always looking around when I'm riding to make sure I know if there are other cyclists around me that I should be calling out hazards and signaling to. I guess I figure that there are times when I've needed a pull and I'm happy to return the favor. Another thought is that unless I know I can pass AND drop someone, I'll hang back instead of passing. This may mean I'm back there for a couple of minutes while I assess or wait for a place to safely pass.

I also agree with MP that everyone should have group riding/pacelining skills. If you ever plan to be on the road with other riders, whether it be two or two hundred during an organized event, you need to know how to handle that situation.

[tulip]

I enjoy pacelines and find them fun and valuable for training, but I do want to know that the other folks in the line know what they are doing. I ride in pacelines with people I know, but not with some stranger on the road because I don't know their skills. If I come up on someone, I'll either hang way back or pass them. If someone comes up on me, I'll usually ease up on my pace so that they will pass me.

Clinics are a good way to learn, but you also need to practice; one clinic won't do it. Clinics that provide follow-up practice sessions would be great, but I don't know if those are offered. Some clubs, even recreational ones, offer paceline skills rides. I think it's a valuable skill to have, but riders need to learn how to do it properly.