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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Pacific Northwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by zencentury View Post
    Actually, the initial post involves more issues than a parents alcoholism. I don't think Raleighdon was criticizing, simply stating facts, one of which is that this is a parent-child issue as well as an addiction issue.
    It may be difficult but I do think it's something to consider. Tough Love.
    Yes. I think that was RD's intent.
    Last edited by salsabike; 12-31-2007 at 12:43 PM.
    "My predominant feeling is one of gratitude. I have loved and been loved;I have been given much and I have given something in return...Above all, I have been a sentient being, a thinking animal, on this beautiful planet, and that in itself has been an enormous privilege and an adventure." O. Sacks

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Flagstaff AZ
    Posts
    2,516
    I think Mr. Silver is here because he likes to be here and he is courteous and inciteful and I appreciate his candor. I think it also shows that he cares for Silver and is interested in what she does and is part of. More men could learn from that.

    Now, back to the topic. Silvers, I greatly appreciate your problems with the parents. Mine are alcoholics also. My brother in law (who never says anything bad about anyone) says they are "CRAZY", and of course, he is right. They act crazy cause they are addicts and have lived their lives around alcohol instead of dedicating their time to something good and productive.

    My parents are also in the 80s (dad is 89). They still live by themselves in Tucson now, but who knows how much longer this will be able to last. They drink every late-afternoon/night and get snockered almost every night. It is a very sad thing. It not only affects their brains, it affects their moods, and their health. Mom has always been on depression medication and still drinks? Dad had one kidney removed from cancer about 10 years ago, kept drinking, has severe prostate problems, and his other kidney is compromised and works only minimally.

    My sister and I have talked to them about not drinking so much, but it is useless. Especially after Dad's kidney was removed. We cannot control them. We do the best to have a loving relationship with them; but sometimes it is very tough. I understand your struggle - you want to do something, but it is very difficult and almost impossible to control the situation. You just have to realize that you have done the best you can and go forward with your own lives and make good role models for your own children and those around you. IT IS SO DANG FRUSTRATING - but sometimes these are the cards you are dealt!

    Hang in there - it probably doesn't get better, but I wish you well in dealing with these issues.

    spoke

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    17
    I've often wondered why a man would spend so much of his energy surrounding himself with women in a site like Team Estrogen, and Mimitabby shares posts with me sometimes, seeking my thoughts on various issues. It astounds me that a purported well educated and balanced man would come to a women's bicycling group about his mom and dad's alcoholism.[/QUOTE]

    This is kind of offensive on a couple of different levels:

    1) Maybe Mr. Silver just needs a place to unload. This has historically been a non-critical, non-judgemental group. That is often hard to come by these days. OK, a few divas and kooks have come by every now and then, but on the whole, people here are respectful and courteous. Making judgements about a single participant based on a few comments seems rude and inappropriate.

    2)Mercy, a man asking women for advice. What is this world coming to!!! Like women have no value to add to discussion with a man because of their gender. Sorry, I'm not buying into that. It seems like there are some really wise people participating on this board and from some of the replies to this thread, others have gone down this road also.

    I don't have any experience with alchoholism, but we all have problems to work through and my thoughts are with the Silvers as they deal with this issue.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Western Canada-prairies, mountain & ocean
    Posts
    6,984
    To my knowledge, alcoholism doesn't exist in our family...just hope the nephews and nieces don't fall down a hole here.

    I really do mean this genuinely.....this may sound wierd but some of my family members can only hold 1 glass of wine or less, before getting red. And for me, it's only 1/2 glass of wine. I understand for some Asians, they may have a particular enzyme that does not breakdown alcohol "efficiently". I guess this is a blessing in disguise.


    I do remember as a child, my mother expressing concern that my father not fall into any drinking when his boss was a happy beer, Scotch and whiskey drinker. His boss died about 8 yrs. ago from a failed liver.

    And if something did go wrong....I am certain they would listen to my sister, who is a physician....they have been taking her medical advice for past decade so far.

    I feel for the Silvers and their problems with elders having alcolholism.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    8,769
    2008 Trek FX 7.2/Terry Cite X
    2009 Jamis Aurora/Brooks B-68
    2010 Trek FX 7.6 WSD/stock bontrager

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152
    I've known many addicts who are amazing people; world renowned artists, activists and community leaders, people who raise millions for charity, or just good people hard working parents and workers and such ... addicts all and effecting their families and others.

    Most of these people are now in recovery and while that's hard to do they are happier for it.

    I've read somewhere that each addict adversely the life of up to 5 people .
    Last edited by Trek420; 12-31-2007 at 05:47 PM.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Blessed to be all over the place!
    Posts
    3,433
    Raleighdon:
    1) Thank you for your insightful thoughts in three of your paragraphs. As I understand from Mimi's earlier post, you have direct professional experience that gives credibility to your input (as to the matter of dealing with alcoholics). When I ask someone what they think, it's my hope that they'll tell me what they think, not what I want them to say. Your feedback is thought provoking and that's useful.

    2) As to your somewhat personal attack on me:
    • You're welcome to criticize me, my motives, my shortcomings, etc.
    • But in all honesty, I'd encourage you to 'earn qualification' to do so by interacting with me directly first. Say the word, and I'll PM you my phone # and email address - Then you can analyze me thoroughly My life's an open book and is anything but perfect...but you can rest assured that "pity" is not a phrase in my vocabulary. I count my blessings everyday.
    • Don't criticize me because we see things differently. I may not hang out in macho places like you, but rest assured I'm very happy with who I am


    In business, I dive in head first and confront challenges that don't have evident answers. But, personal matters are not so easy. In reality, there is no single 'right' response. That's where a forum like this is helpful...and this happens to be a very experienced, diverse, and intelligent group where, in 24 hours, I received feedback and encouragement from a culturally and geographically diverse group of people to challenge and guide me.

    So, why do I dive in here before diving into the "community services available"? Well, unlike you, we live in a small city...as a matter of fact, I was the board president of a remarkable organization that is THE BEST "community service available" in this area...but it's not suited for this this situation...so I know the local options are limited.

    Thanks for your thoughts. My offer of my #/email address is sincere - not for confrontation, but if you have insight into a problem that I don't see, then I'm all ears

    Have a Happy New Year!
    Last edited by Mr. Bloom; 12-31-2007 at 07:33 PM.
    If you don't grow where you're planted, you'll never BLOOM - Will Rogers

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    8,548
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisa S.H. View Post
    Hmmm....would people criticize Silver the same way if it had been she who initiated this thread instead of Mr. Silver? I suspect not, but it's something to think about.
    Lisa, the response would have been the same except for the specific paragraph referring to men on women's boards. Raleighdon posted (after I mentioned the Alcohol situation) out of a genuine response to wanting to help with the pain and suffering that we have both seen so many times that is caused by the Disease of Alcoholism. My response here is late because we were out in the sticks at a New Year's Eve party, where ironically, one of raleighdon's best riding buddies had a drunken meltdown in the middle of the best restaurant in the town we were in, terrifying and embarrassing all of us. We drove home from there sad
    about yet another FAMILY whose life was being destroyed by the disease.
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,867
    On any other board I would have awakened on this new day to hundreds of incendiary posts devolving into chaos in a thread like this. So thankful it didn't happen. What a great place this has always been!

    Karen

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,011
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckervill View Post
    On any other board I would have awakened on this new day to hundreds of incendiary posts devolving into chaos in a thread like this. So thankful it didn't happen. What a great place this has always been!

    Karen
    Agreed! Which is just one more reason that I like it here.
    "Being retired from Biking...isn't that kinda like being retired from recess?" Stephen Colbert asked of Lance Armstrong

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    I'm the only one allowed to whine
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    10,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuckervill View Post
    On any other board I would have awakened on this new day to hundreds of incendiary posts devolving into chaos in a thread like this. So thankful it didn't happen. What a great place this has always been!

    Karen
    Hear, hear!
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152
    A toast with your beverage of choice to TE. Long live TE.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,011
    It's been so helpful to be able to come here and get feedback. sometimes you do know the answers, but it helps to write out the issues and discuss them with others. The folks here on the this forum have always come through with helpful info and thoughtful, intelligent and insightful responses.

    Having an internet community to come to is such helpful and useful medium. We live in a small town with limited resources. We don't know anyone who is dealing with these issues. We are familiar with the resources here in town. And we know that these resources don't meet our specific needs. We have sought out professional help. We have consulted their doctors. They have done nothing to help.

    With other issues (such as MIL's celiac diagnosis) we've learned that doctors don't always have the best answers. If we had relied on the medical resources here in town, MIL would have died from Celiac. But through networking on the internet and going out of town for resources (found on the internet) we were able to get a diagnosis and treatment plan.

    We have made an appointment with a counselor. The first one that we could schedule was on Jan 16. We don't know this counselor. We don't know what angle she will take. will she even be helpful?

    We've been through all sorts of things in the past. We encouraged them to give up driving after MIL sideswiped a car and left the scene causing $12,000 to the other car. We encouraged them to move to an assisted living facility. We've refused to purchase their liquor. They found another source to buy it for them. They lent these folks money and then these folks began stealing from them. About this some time, FIL got sick went into the hospital and then the nursing home. This was summer '06. The assisted living facility told us that they would not allow FIL back unless their alcohol use was controlled.

    well, we've bumbled along til now. Sure we've not done all the "right" things. We're just doing the best we can with what we've got. Getting insight and talking through the issues with you all is something that we are grateful for. thank you.
    "Being retired from Biking...isn't that kinda like being retired from recess?" Stephen Colbert asked of Lance Armstrong

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Mrs. KnottedYet
    Posts
    9,152
    Quote Originally Posted by silver View Post
    We live in a small town with limited resources. We don't know anyone who is dealing with these issues. We are familiar with the resources here in town. And we know that these resources don't meet our specific needs. We have sought out professional help. We have consulted their doctors. They have done nothing to help.
    AA and the "sister" programs such as Alanon are highly anonymous, actually that's the basis and one of the foundations of the program.

    It's hard to explain but it's not a secret society or "closeted" in any way. But it's not as if your Doctor can just say "Here, I'm referring you to my Alanon specialist, go to the Alanon Building"

    I can almost gaurantee you know many or a few who are in some recovery process but because anonymity is the founding principle of this thang you could be talking to your best friend in the checkout line and it's possible that s/he would not say "come with me to the meeting I go to, it's in the next town."

    It's likely s/he might say "I've heard Alanon would be helpful"

    It's not as if those in recovery wear t-shirts or often even talk about it outside of meetings.

    Then one day you go .... and there's your Dentist or next door neighbor and and I hope you may find the support that you deserve.

    You can look up AA in almost any phone book, there are websites with contacts. And if you do not see an Alanon group listed just call or e-mail AA they will refer you to a local Alanon meeting nearest to you.

    It's not like there is a building or meeting hall (well, in urban areas sometimes there are) but often the meeting's in a church, locally here I see a sign in the window of a Mexican Eatery they have meetings there.

    Hey, might as well have good food after.

    It's not a matter of it being a shameful thing, there's nothing to be ashamed of but it's a principle and structure and why the program works for so many and for so long is that they don't advertise.

    Even if it was not nearby, or you had to go to the next town over or only when you travel .... but I'm still willing to bet there's a local meeting.

    I think there's even a 12 step cycling club somewhere.
    Fancy Schmancy Custom Road bike ~ Mondonico Futura Legero
    Found on side of the road bike ~ Motobecane Mixte
    Gravel bike ~ Salsa Vaya
    Favorite bike ~ Soma Buena Vista mixte
    Folder ~ Brompton
    N+1 ~ My seat on the Rover recumbent tandem
    https://www.instagram.com/pugsley_adventuredog/

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Riding my Luna & Rivendell in the Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    8,408
    I second Trek's excellent Alanon post. I would heartily recommend that the Silvers both go to some alanon meetings and learn more about how to deal with alcoholic family members- even better, Alanon will help one look inside and figure out how to deal with one's OWN feelings of guilt, anger, frustration, etc, when dealing with alcoholics. The tools and insights you discover there will be invaluable not only during this difficult time, but even long after your parents are both gone- when the guilt, resentment, anger, and sadness continue to linger inside and negatively affect your lives in many small unexpected ways for years to come.
    Their principles and ideas are pretty healthy and beneficial, and can come in handy for various other challenging/puzzling situations life comes up with.

    I too think this caring and civil thread is further proof of TE members' special thoughtfulness, intelligence, and humanity.

    A good start to the new year!
    Last edited by BleeckerSt_Girl; 01-01-2008 at 11:50 AM.
    Lisa
    My mountain dulcimer network...FOTMD.com...and my mountain dulcimer blog
    My personal blog:My blog
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

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