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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Utah, Gateway to Nevada, not to be confused with Idaho
    Posts
    1,872

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    skierchickie, is your children's program super structured or up to the instructor? I ask because I've been volunteer teaching for a kids' program and found it a real challenge to mesh all the different abilities and attitudes. It was (I say "was" because this afternoon was our last session) school based, so all kids participated as PE. I'd be interested to hear about some of the things you do in your program so I can plan a little for next session. (Note that we had paid instructors as well, and for my group I ended up doing more teaching than the paid instructor...but I digress...)

    At our lesson today, it was 9F (about -12.8 C) and these kids never complained once about being cold. Even the kindergarteners kicked it up. I was really impressed. Of course it was a beautiful bluebird day most of the day. It didn't start to snow until we were done!

    Since today was our last day, we had about an hour of free/play time at the end and I had a 9-year-old girl come and ask me if I could teach her to skate (we'd just classic skied during the class). So I got her some kid-sized skate skis and off we went. She is a natural! I was blown away at how easy it was for her. When we finished I told her to tell her parents that she needed a pair of her own skate skis! It made the day for both of us, I think.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    269
    Wow a skijoring race sounds like fun.

    Teawoman- I get warm very easily when I'm moving and cold very easily when I stop (and it can be even worse if I try to eat outdoors). You probably need fewer layers while you're skiing (if you'll be moving constantly leave the layer behind, if you're likely to stop and get cold tie it around your waist or carry it somehow). When going somewhere after skiing, it's always best to bring a dry shirt (I like to change the baselayer- it's the wettest and I know I'll never warm up as long as I'm wearing a wet baselayer). Glad you're enjoying skiing!

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    979
    I'm not much of an endurance sport person but nothing gets me going like CC skiing. But then again nothing gets me sweating like CC skiing. I think the cold winter really exacerbates the problem too. If I can I do a warm up lap before a big one and strip off my heavy layers. Otherwise I wear things with zips so that I can vent easily. I always keep my ears covered but not with anything too warm. Sorry that is the best advice I can give.

    I have a question though, does anyone have a recommendation about balaclavas. I just bought one and it is nice until I warm up, then I pull it down so that it is only keeping my head warm. But because I was breathing through it, it is all wet and gross. Any ideas as how to avoid this grossness?

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perpetual Confusion and Indecision
    Posts
    488
    Yellow - the Ski Tigers program is pretty structured. It was started maybe 15-20 years ago by a few skiers/parents, and it has evolved a lot. There are probably 100 or so kids in it this year, and it is divided up by age & ability. I think there are about 8 groups. There aren't any paid coaches - we're all volunteers. Mostly parents who ski and local racers. The higher level groups have the more serious skiers as coaches. Some years I do it, and some years I don't. This year I'm an assistant coach in the Yellow group (that way I can skip out easier for races). Anyway, there are little kids (I think the youngest I ever knew of was 4, but she was mostly supervised by her mom, since she couldn't really go very far). All the way up through high school. Each level has goals to work on (I think the one I'm in is things like being able to ski 5k, both striding and skating, hockey stops, tucking downhills, etc).

    I guess the main thing we do is try to keep it fun. So we play some games with the younger ones sometimes. The group I'm with this year is about 12 kids (including identical triplets with identical long hair and identical clothes) who are all probably about 10 or 11. Last week we skied without poles, and tried to work on poling with the V1. It is really hard to even tell if they are listening to you. A lot of it ends up just being about getting them out there, and trying to give them pointers. All the groups up to this point are primarily about striding, and then in Yellow they start skating. The organization firmly believes that striding is the basis for so many aspects of skiing that it is better to focus solely on that for a long time. Skating is one of those things that is hard to teach at that age (either they "get it" like the girl you mentioned, or they don't).

    Here is a link to the program, which could help: http://www.keweenawtrails.com/skitigers/index.html

    It doesn't go over specific drills, but it will give you an idea of how the program works. The newsletters have a lot of explanatory information, and some of the other links are helpful. The Groups/Classes link explains the groups.

    We did play a game last week where we split the group in half, and the head coach and I each skied off a few yards with a bell. The kids took turns being blindfolded and skiing out to find us (& ski around us) by the ringing of the bells (without poles). This was at the end, after skiing without poles to work on weight transfer, V1ing up a long gradual hill, then turning around and trying to glide as long as possible on each ski, coming back down (several times), and then skiing a short hill with a moderate uphill. Maybe 4 or 5k. With a brief chocolate candy break. Oh, and the head coach had told them to keep track of their distance during the week, and if they skied more total ks than we did, they could bomb us with snowballs for 20 seconds. If we had skied more, we could throw the snowballs at them for 10 seconds. 11 kids, and they had only skied 44k total in a whole week! So we coaches won.

    Tonight I saw one of the coaches working with a big group of younger kids. She had put little flags in the tracks on a big downhill, and was having them go down in the tracks, lifting their skis over the obstacles as they went. The little kids seem to frequently do little drills using plastic snakes and bugs in the snow.

    I hope I've been a least somewhat helpful. There is so much information that the organizers could address better than I can. We have a large group now, so things are split up pretty effectively. Parent involvement is key. We have enough structure so the coaches know what skills to work on, but not so much that they feel compelled to work on specific techniques in a certain way on certain days.

    Feel free to pm me if you want. Wow - this is long! Sorry.

    Jan

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    northern california
    Posts
    1,460
    I LOVE to see the little ones out there enjoying exercise! Our local schools have some very strong downhill, snowboard and cross country ski programs. The kindergardners go at least once a week to one of our local XC areas to ski.

    I had a frustrating morning with the dogs yesterday. So I decided to take a few hours just for me. I took my big, old striding skis and went to the XC ski area and went out for a 2 hour ski. It was a beautiful day and the area was surprisingly uncrowded for a holiday weekend. It was just perfect for clearing my mind!

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Utah, Gateway to Nevada, not to be confused with Idaho
    Posts
    1,872
    Skierchickie, thanks so much for the info. Our program is a little different in that ALL kids participate, not just those that want to, so we have a few....um...challenging ones. But I learned a lot the first go 'round. I'd love to hang out with the Ski Tigers for a couple of days to learn a lot more!

    I have a couple of other friends that are involved in youth ski programs and while downhill is a little different, I'm sure I could learn a lot more from them as well. I'm kind of kid impaired anyway (that is, I haven't been around kids a lot, so I'm lacking in knowledge and experience in just how to interact with them), though they seem to think I'm really cool. I think it's my cool hat, but whatever! (And yes, it's a kids' hat...my head is kid-sized!)

    Roadie, in my Cali days, I loved to go to Tahoe XC there in Tahoe City because it was FLAT! Well, flatter than Kirkwood!

    Hubby and I classic skied today up in Park City, which is currently overrun by Hollywood-types (the Sundance Film Fest is in full swing). It's always interesting to see fur on the track, and I'm not talking about fur that's attached to a bunny rabbit hopping across the meadow. I wonder if there's a difference between "everyday" makeup and "skiing" makeup??

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Welsh but living in Munich, Germany
    Posts
    324
    Ski-ing makeup? Ha, that is a funny idea.

    First race of the season this weekend - it was more like water-ski-ing as everything was thawing like mad. I had been quite excited about the idea of skiing from Germany into the Czech Republic and back, but in the end they had to shorten the course, so we did 4 rounds of a smaller circuit (4 times up that ****** hill at the end!).

    I am not fit enough.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perpetual Confusion and Indecision
    Posts
    488
    Bron: Sorry your race wasn't that much fun - the next one will be better! Like I said - there is no better way to train for racing than by racing! I'm trying to get mentally ready for my next one (this weekend - 25k). I skipped last weekend because of the cold. I did get out and ski though - unlike where you are, it was 0 F when I was out.

    Yellow: Fur? Makeup? These people are working up a real snotty sweat, huh? Come on, you can tell me, did you intentionally trip any of them? Or just ski circles around them? Or hit anybody with a snot rocket?? Ooh - ooh! It would be fun to stop just ahead of one, blow a snot rocket in the snow, and then turn around toward them and wipe your nose on your sleeve!

    By the way, I'm sort of kid impaired, myself. I like them, I'm just not around them much, and don't know how to interact. So I think I try to work with them like they are adults. Maybe they like that?

    Well, we've had at least 3 feet since Friday morning (probably more)- maybe 18" since I got home last night.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Welsh but living in Munich, Germany
    Posts
    324
    3 ft of snow! You are so lucky, we only have a sprinkling here. Enjoy it.

    50 k race coming up on Sunday

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Columbia River Gorge
    Posts
    3,583
    I skate skied today for the first time in 2 years. Went 7 km.

    I think I'm gonna feel that tomorrow.

    Anyone have suggestions for resources to describe skate skiing technique? I manage but I get really tired and I suck at any kind of an incline.
    Living life like there's no tomorrow.

    http://gorgebikefitter.com/


    2007 Look Dura Ace
    2010 Custom Tonic cross with discs, SRAM
    2012 Moots YBB 2 x 10 Shimano XTR
    2014 Soma B-Side SS

  11. #41
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Perpetual Confusion and Indecision
    Posts
    488
    Wow Bron - 50K! You rock! I haven't ever been ready for a 50 in January! Well, or ever in the past several years. Have a great time!

    Wahine: 7k on your first day out in two years is really great! I work up to that over a couple of weeks at the beginning of every season. I only did about 6 tonight, actually. You will feel it, but in that really good way.

    Lee Borowski has some books and videos on skate skiing (actually, there are lots of people who do). Check out someplace like New Moon ski shop online (or Skiguys.com, or any of the bigger shops that are online). Getting really tired and sucking on inclines is all a part of the deal - the more you ski, the better you'll get. Weight transfer is about the most important thing you can learn. Try skiing without poles on flats and slight grades, swinging your arms (and whole upper body) back and forth as you skate, so your weight is always going in the direction of the gliding ski (pretend you're reaching for the tip). And make sure you are bringing your ski in all the way under your body before putting it down (if you have a problem with this, concentrate on actually crossing your tails - they can click together and that is okay while you're practicing). Have fun! Mainly, the more you ski, the easier it will get.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Columbia River Gorge
    Posts
    3,583
    Thank you for the tips. I'll try the technique tips you suggested. I can skate without poles on the flat but not for long but I'm definitely not bringing my ski back under me enough. Hadn't thought of that. I'll definitely check out the resources you suggested too.
    Living life like there's no tomorrow.

    http://gorgebikefitter.com/


    2007 Look Dura Ace
    2010 Custom Tonic cross with discs, SRAM
    2012 Moots YBB 2 x 10 Shimano XTR
    2014 Soma B-Side SS

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Utah, Gateway to Nevada, not to be confused with Idaho
    Posts
    1,872
    Wahine, check out the Master Skier website as well. Tons of really great articles.

    http://www.masterskier.com/

    "Proper" technique seems to change every year, and what is efficient for you is something that you need to experiment with. Clinics are great places to learn from instructors, and from other skiers. They are usually inexpensive (or free...at least around here there are tons of free clinics).

    My uphill tricks (and I'm pretty speedy uphill): maintain an exagerrated "athletic stance" with flexed ankles and bent knees, drive with the knees, and most importantly look forward (not down at your skis). I kind of do a little "crunch" with every pole plant if I'm v-1 ing. With v-2, I pretty much crunch on every plant (but I'm not in good enough shape to V-2 up steep hills ...maybe next year).

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Welsh but living in Munich, Germany
    Posts
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Skierchickie View Post
    Wow Bron - 50K! You rock! I haven't ever been ready for a 50 in January! Well, or ever in the past several years. Have a great time!
    Thanks, my feet certainly feel like rocks now. Ummm, I donīt really think I was ready for a 50k. Did a 25k classic yesterday, probably one of my better performances and my technique seems to be getting better all the time (plenty of room for improvement though). Woke up this morning feeling really yucky but decided that I would give the race a go and dnf if I actually threw up. The other option would have been hanging around for DH in the cold. I got dropped by the main pack off the start, including by a woman wearing more make-up that I would put on for an evening out (the shame). Anyway, I managed to slog my way through. Getting some skate coaching has definately paid off - there is no way I would have got round by muscle power alone.

    Wahine,
    If you canīt get to a clinic, how about getting someone to video you? We just used the film function on my little digital camera and then looked at them at home or played them back immediately.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,056
    Went skiing today for the first time in 2 years - since my knee injury in 2006. We went 2 hours - all flat. My knee is hurting a little. The worst thing my glasses kept fogging up. It was 26 degrees(F). I did get too warm - I wore my Adidas nylon wind pants with some polyproplyene(lightweight) under. Top was a nylon LS tee, a fleece shirt and nylon shell jacket(waterproof - breathable). I would have been fine with either just the fleece.
    2011 Specialized Secteur Elite Comp
    2006 Trek 7100

 

 

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