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Thread: Why Steel?

  1. #16
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    but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimitabby View Post
    but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.
    The few ounces difference would more than be made up by me skipping that second slice of spam, and remembering to go pee before my ride...

    Lugged is easier to repair, too.
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  3. #18
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    With a lugged frame, a tube can be replaced by heating the lug to melt the brazing, slipping out the old tube and inserting a new one. Steel can also be bent and straightened to some extent. I am currently having a bent steel fork from my 1954 3-speed straightened.
    Oil is good, grease is better.

    2007 Peter Mooney w/S&S couplers/Terry Butterfly
    1993 Bridgestone MB-3/Avocet O2 Air 40W
    1980 Columbus Frame with 1970 Campy parts
    1954 Raleigh 3-speed/Brooks B72

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mimitabby View Post
    but lugged IS heavier. even the graceful lugs are.

    My Legolas weighs just under twenty pounds. 13 ounces of that is my Brooks saddle.

    I'm sure that seems heavy to some. But since I'm not a lightweight myself, I don't think another two pounds off the bike would make a difference.

    V.
    Discipline is remembering what you want.


    TandemHearts.com

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen View Post
    I get it now, lugged = no welds, non-lugged = welds. You're right, it would be much nicer looking without all the lumpy welds.
    Nope, not quite right either. Here's a little primer.

    Lugged construction - includes brazing of the lugs to bond the tubes to the lugs
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugged_...e_construction

    TIG Welded – Some materials require it, such as titanium. Ti masters (like Steve Potts) can make the weld a stunning necklace.
    http://www.stevepottscycles.com/imag...at_cluster.jpg

    Fillet Brazing – this is NOT lumpy construction nor is it welding. The tube junctions should be absolutely smooth and is a measure of a builder’s technique. After painting, the tubes just flow into each other.
    http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_boh.htm
    Frends know gud humors when dey is hear it. ~ Da Crockydiles of ZZE.

  6. #21
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    Sadie, excellent links, thanks! I guess my old Raleigh 10 speed (early 70's) was lugged.

    Electra Townie 7D

  7. #22
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    okay few things about different material

    steel:

    first Lugged. Its an extra piece of metal fitting at the joints where the steel tubing meets. The tubing slides into the fitting and its either soldered or brazed together. The other option is to weld with beads of molten metal around the joint where the tubing meets.

    Yes newer steel are lighter and are generally double butted meaning they are thicker toward the ends and the walls in the middle are thinner to reduce weight.

    Steel also has the advantage of not work hardening as it ages but it can rust. It also can have that lively feel to it. That springy feel.

    But it does suffer from metal fatigue (recreational riders may not ever see this) I've cracked my frame at the bottom bracket. Not fun.

    I don't think steel tubes are hydro formed like aliminum, titanium and metal matrix composite. Hydro forming allowes the engineers to taylor the way the tubing behaves under load. The tubing is hydro formed when it has all those interesting curves and tapers.

    Aluminum:

    The aerospace grade of aluminum is generally used and though much stronger than usual aluminum alloy its modulus is still relatively low (stiffness) so to compensate, the tubings are usually oversized. And this leads to much stiffer frame. Good for large riders and not so good if you are petite. Cause bike builders don't necessarily change the diameter of the tubing for a smaller frame. So a small aluminum frame can be too rigid/too stiff and you get jarred loose...

    Advantages are it doesn't rust.

    downside is that the metal will work harden. meaning as it gets used it will get stiffer and more brittle with age. May crack without warning. (again rec riders need not worry). you can experience work hardening first hand by twisting those paper clip. At first its easy to twist them around. And it gets harder and harder and at some point, it will snap apart. This is work hardening.

    Titanium:

    veryhigh strength to weight ratio. It is only beaten by the carbon frame.

    Advantages is extremely light due to its strength to weight ratio. But due to its high modulus, the bikes made of ti tends to be very springy. The bikes do flex more so than the aluminum where oversized tubes are used. and it doesn't rust.

    disadvantages: mainly cost!!!

    Carbon:

    used to be that if you scratch, it severely compromised the strength of the tubing. (like glass is extremely strong but soon as you scratch it, it loses its strength 1000fold). Newer carbon don't seem to have this problem.

    Extremely light frame can be made with it. and because the carbon fabric can be layed down according to how its going to be used, the tubing and the frame can be taylored to how stiff and how it flexes.

    disadvantages: again cost!!! may not like to be mishandled.

    Metal matrix composite: (reference to Griffen bike)

    not too many around for me to give you an idea.

    The engineering ability to design and predict how the frames behave have gotten so good that the bike could be built with any of the material listed such that it will be less than the min. weight rule of UCI.

    The material, builder, style are more or less a personal choice today. As for performance, it depends on your lung, heart and yoouuurr leeegggss.

    Besides, if you were to put:

    The pirate (Marco Pantoni)
    The train (Miguel Induran)
    The flying dutchman (??? Riis)
    or Lance on a beaten old beach cruiser, they'll still whip my butt no matter what kind of bike I'm on.

    smilingcat

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingcat View Post
    Besides, if you were to put:

    The pirate (Marco Pantoni)
    The train (Miguel Induran)
    The flying dutchman (??? Riis)
    or Lance on a beaten old beach cruiser, they'll still whip my butt no matter what kind of bike I'm on.

    smilingcat
    well, to even the playing field, make them ride with only 1 wheel!
    Mimi Team TE BIANCHISTA
    for six tanks of gas you could have bought a bike.

  9. #24
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    And one hand.

    Then I might be able to keep up....
    "If Americans want to live the American Dream, they should go to Denmark." - Richard Wilkinson

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnottedYet View Post
    And one hand.

    Then I might be able to keep up....
    There have been one-handed bike racers who have competed very well. Ray Florman was born with only one hand and was Missouri state champion in 1936 and again in 1937. He was national champion in the 80-plus age group in 1998 at age 81. He owned the sister shop to the one I worked in from 1973 to 1976.

    I've also known a rider with a withered leg. Even one-legged people can ride bikes, though the guy I knew would never win any speed contests.
    Oil is good, grease is better.

    2007 Peter Mooney w/S&S couplers/Terry Butterfly
    1993 Bridgestone MB-3/Avocet O2 Air 40W
    1980 Columbus Frame with 1970 Campy parts
    1954 Raleigh 3-speed/Brooks B72

  11. #26
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    There's a one legged guy around here who throws his falsie in a basket and pedals around with only one. I've heard he's actually pretty darn fast. Unfortunately he recently had is bike stolen
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

    visit my flickr stream http://flic.kr/ps/MMu5N

 

 

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