First ride on my Brooks B17, ouch.

[FreshNewbie]

Hi,

So yesterday I put my brooks B17 on my bike and went for a very short hilly ride. I was holding my handlbars for my dear life as I was sliding of the saddle all the time and it felt that even some glue wouldnt hold me in. Second, not sure if it was the way I dialed in the saddle or just the fact that it's not for me but my girly parts were just in pain. I guess, the fact that I was sliding forward didnt help either but I was in a pain that didn't experience in a long time on a saddle. While I had no pain on my sit bones whatsoever, my front took the punch. Is it going to go away when the saddle won't be slipper? Or you think I am not a good candidate for this saddle? Thanks,

Marina

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Marina,
Be sure to read this thread:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=14358
I think SuzieQ had much the same issues as you are having, and I believe she is more comfortable now- perhaps you should consult with her as to how she adjusted things on her new B17.

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you Lisa, I played with the saddle yesterday. Sort of moved it a little forward and tried to make the nose part level. Couldn't try to ride it outside since it was freezing cold in NY this weekend. Looks like I need to lower the saddle a little bit too, since I notices that I was rocking from side to side when pedalling, that could also contribute to my problem. I feel like it's worth for me to leave it on the bike at least till it stops being so slippery. Maybe if I wasn't sliding forward so much and stay in one sweet spot it would be a good saddle. I was surprised because even though it's so hard it didnt bother my sit bones at all. Could it be because it's a perfect width and other saddles hurt because I was sitting on the edges ?

[mimitabby]

have you put proofhide on your Brooks? I used to feel like I was going to slip off mine too, early on. The proofhide will make the leather surface "sticky"
so it might help. Suddenly, you're going to feel quite good up there.
If you've ever ridden a horse, on an english saddle, it's the same sort of thing.
You feel like you're just perched up there and could go flying off at any time.
but then you "get it" and you don't feel that way any more.
Glad that you are making little adjustments and noticing the difference.
I rode 100 miles this weekend on two different brooks, and I have no saddle pain at all.

[FreshNewbie]

Well I put it on and buffed it with this cloth that they provide with proofide and it seemed to make it more slippery. Should I proofide it again and just leave it on without buffing it? The back side of the saddle is definately comfortable because it feels like it's supporting everything (and there is enought to be supported there ). Since I can't ride outside during weekdays, I am going to put the bike on the trainer to minimize slipperness before this weekend ride outside

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Ideally you should Proofhide it quite a few times, buffing it after it dries each time like the instructions say. Yes it will SEEM to make it smoother but it will actually be LESS slippery after being proofh'ed a few times, believe me. During the first few weeks, the more you proofhide the better.

Assuming you have the saddle leveled well at this point...

For me, I felt more comfortable with the saddle BACK in it's rails all the way, becasue it pulled my center of gravity back more and took some weight off my hands. I was able to feel better balanced all over with my saddle back on the rails, not pushed forward. It also brought my weight centered BACK onto my sitbones more (and OFF the saddle nose). Gave me more pedaling power too.

[FreshNewbie]

Thank you so much Mimi and Lisa for helping me through my brooks adjustment period.
Lisa, when I took my brooks for that first ride, my KOP position was off. Looked like the saddle need to be moved forward a bit to bring the knew over the paddle, otherwise it seemed like if I was sitting on the wider part I constantly had to was sliding forward. Right now I placed my saddle level only in the nose part because I read that back part supposed to be flarred up a bit. Not really sure that tipping nose up would relief my front pain. Will proofide again today. Slipperness makes me scared because it makes bike handling just impossible.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Lisa, when I took my brooks for that first ride, my KOP position was off. Looked like the saddle need to be moved forward a bit to bring the knew over the paddle, otherwise it seemed like if I was sitting on the wider part I constantly had to was sliding forward. Right now I placed my saddle level only in the nose part because I read that back part supposed to be flarred up a bit. Not really sure that tipping nose up would relief my front pain. Will proofide again today. Slipperness makes me scared because it makes bike handling just impossible.

I go more by how balanced I feel on my bike than KOP position. I've read that KOP position is great to use as a starting point to fit your bike to you, but I don't feel it's the end-all-be-all of bike fit. You need to feel your weight balanced. Contrary to what might seem "logical", setting your saddle back will put your center of gravity back further from the crank axle, and even though technically it might place you a cm or two further from your handlebars, it might take weight OFF your front end and keep you from feeling you are falling forward too much. It did for me. Keep an open mind about trying different and various approaches. You want your weight to be on your sitbones, not up front on your saddle nose area and girly parts.
Brooks B17 rails are pretty short and so the difference between all-forward and all-back is not "too" great. Yes you have it right about leveling the nose and main seat- the back edge does flare up right at the end and shouldn't be part of the leveling thing.
Each time you make an adjustment, try it for at least a couple of rides before making another change.
Yes if your hips are rocking you might want to lower your saddle by 1/4" increments. Every small change makes a big difference in bike fit.

[KnottedYet]

FN - if the nose is tipped down it might make your pelvis roll forward, placing your weight on the soft bits and nose more than their fair share, and making you feel like you are sliding forward.

Even when the saddle is slippery (and it does get better with repeated applications of proofhide) you shouldn't feel like you are sliding or falling forward all the time.

Tip the nose up a bit more (a SMALL amout at a time) so your pelvis and weight roll backward more toward your tailbone than your soft bits.

Did we already have the pelvis-as-a-bowl-of-water discussion?

[mimitabby]

F

Did we already have the pelvis-as-a-bowl-of-water discussion?

NO! please continue!

[FreshNewbie]

Just played with the saddle again, tipped the nost part few degrees up. So now the nose part is slightly up and the back is flared up too. Moved it a little further back, not completely all the way but would say 2/3 of rails are in the back and 1/3 is in the front (not sure if that explains it well )
I really want this saddle to work for me, not giving up yet.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just played with the saddle again, tipped the nost part few degrees up. So now the nose part is slightly up and the back is flared up too. Moved it a little further back, not completely all the way but would say 2/3 of rails are in the back and 1/3 is in the front (not sure if that explains it well )
I really want this saddle to work for me, not giving up yet.

Sounds like enough change for the moment- now ride it a few times over a few days. Don't judge too quickly, because your body will adapt to each change over a few days. Getting a saddle just right takes a bit of time when you are new to it.
As Knot suggested, try to keep your pelvis tipped so that your weight falls more back on your sitbones. Tuck your stomach in, relax your shoulders down, elbows down and not locked straight. Try to balance in a relaxed way on your bike, and balance your weight between your feet, your seat and your hands. Keep flexible and relaxed- think of how relaxed you are when you are curled up on your side in bed.
I assume you are wearing a decent chamois. Also might try putting some chamois butter or just a generous application of plain hand cream on your sensitive areas before you ride, to keep them from getting pressed into one position only. They will want to "adjust" during a long ride too!

[FreshNewbie]

Lisa,
I am wearing Sugoi Lucky shorts on my short rides, anything above 50 miles I wear my 2005 Sugoi RS short. I always put either body glide on or chamois butter

[FreshNewbie]

So far I only had two rides on my brooks b17 which I sent back to exchange for a shorter B17S. The reason- when standing up on hills the saddle nose whould hit my thighs and snap on my shorts. Initially I thought this saddle is not for me and decided to send it back but then something was telling me that I didn't give it a fair try so I exchanged it for shorter model.
On my first ride I adjusted the saddle level in the nose part and got rubbed raw in the front area. This made showering very painful and unpleasant for couple of days. On my second ride I tilted nose up a bit and that seemed to be a bit better but I managed to get rubbed raw again although not as bad as first time. The thing that bugs me that this saddle doesn't hurt my sit bones and I practically don't even feel them. There is not much pressure on my front rather that chaffing problem. I tried the neutral pelvic position that you Knot suggested but that didn't seem to help me stay in one place. Is this saddle really not for me? and I should stick to cut outs since they never game me that chaffing problem? Or am I doing something wrong ?
My handlebars about 1inch below my saddle and this is the best positiong for me. I ride in the drops in the wind mostly or downhill. I been through a dozen saddles and none of them managed to solve all my problems:
Avocet ( came with my old steel bike)
Serfas women's with cut out saddle
Selle SMP strike (low end women's version)
Selle SMP strike (low end men's version)
Jett women's
Selle Italia Max flite gelflow saddle (the most comfortable so far but a little too narrow in the back for me )
Brooks b17 exchanged for B17S (should arrive early next week)
Selle Italia Lady gel flow 2007 (bought in case brooks doesn't workout) to try out.
Hopefully this list will end soon.

[Offthegrid]

FreshNewbie, I just got a Brooks, too. I have had serious saddle sore issues including one that just wouldn't go away. I'd sometimes be bleeding after a ride despite using chamois cream. I've tried Fizik, Terry and the Jett.

For the first time ever, I had NO saddle sore issues with the Brooks. Didn't hurt my sit bones or the area where my legs meet my pelvis at all. Amazing! But it is scrunching my girly bits. I'm wondering if that just takes a bit of getting used to.