argh! I've been spelling "ad nauseam" wrong for years. Damn.
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Note use of "which" as opposed to "that." Okay, I need to stop this. ;-)
argh! I've been spelling "ad nauseam" wrong for years. Damn.
Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin
1995 Kona Cinder Cone commuterFrankenbike/Selle Italia SLR Lady Gel Flow
2008 white Nakamura Summit Custom mtb/Terry Falcon X
2000 Schwinn Fastback Comp road bike/Specialized Jett
eeeeeeeeks! So have I. :-(
Arg! I've been spelling it wrong ad nauseam also.
Frends know gud humors when dey is hear it. ~ Da Crockydiles of ZZE.
Hey, I didn't make that statement. Feel free to correct your quote . . .
And read the website author's statement about which/that.
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/which.html
And more comments from the author of English language guide (and found through comments on Brians' site -- and notice the italics and a redundant indent to show that I am quoting someone else):
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch...ng/t.html#that
That versus Which.
According to the more quibbling self-styled grammar experts, that is restrictive, while which is not.
Many grammarians insist on a distinction without any historical justification. Many of the best writers in the language couldn't tell you the difference between them, while many of the worst think they know. If the subtle difference between the two confuses you, use whatever sounds right. Other matters are more worthy of your attention.
For the curious, however, the relative pronoun that is restrictive, which means it tells you a necessary piece of information about its antecedent: for example, "The word processor that is used most often is WordPerfect." Here the that phrase answers an important question: which of the many word processors are we talking about? And the answer is the one that is used most often.
Which is non-restrictive: it does not limit the word it refers to. An example is "Penn's ID center, which is called CUPID, has been successful so far." Here that is unnecessary: the which does not tell us which of Penn's many ID centers we're considering; it simply provides an extra piece of information about the plan we're already discussing. "Penn's ID Center" tells us all we really need to know to identify it.
It boils down to this: if you can tell which thing is being discussed without the which or that clause, use which; if you can't, use that.
There are two rules of thumb you can keep in mind. First, if the phrase needs a comma, you probably mean which. Since "Penn's ID center" calls for a comma, we would not say "Penn's ID Center, that is called CUPID."
Another way to keep them straight is to imagine by the way following every which: "Penn's ID center, which (by the way) is called CUPID. . . ." The which adds a useful, but not grammatically necessary, piece of information. On the other hand, we wouldn't say "The word processor which (by the way) is used most often is WordPerfect," because the word processor on its own isn't enough information — which word processor?
A paradoxical mnemonic: use that to tell which, and which to tell that.
This opinion would support Brians' choice of "which" over "that." I'm now outta here.
Last edited by SadieKate; 01-27-2010 at 01:47 PM.
Frends know gud humors when dey is hear it. ~ Da Crockydiles of ZZE.
I didn't think it was you. I just didn't bother to put in a sub-quote (since you didn't ). Italics aren't preserved in auto-quote.
It was part of our Law Journal's style manual. Let them call our faculty "quibbling self-styled grammar experts" if they like [I mean honestly, how is that rule any different from any of the ones we've been complaining about in eleven pages of this thread?], but I had not only to know the rule, but to apply it to manuscripts submitted by law professors.
Last edited by OakLeaf; 01-27-2010 at 01:57 PM.
Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler
That would be because there is visual differentiation between regular and italic text, and included a link to the statement, in my post.
Frends know gud humors when dey is hear it. ~ Da Crockydiles of ZZE.
That versus which is a style question. US publishers tend to prefer the distinction, whereas the Brits almost never do--they freely use which as both restrictive and nonrestrictive. I personally edit my authors following the that/which distinction based on my publishers' expressed preferences, but strictly speaking, which is grammatically correct.
"That" is used with a restrictive clause, "which" with a nonrestrictive clause. For that reason, it's important to use the correct word; therefore, it's not simply a matter of style, in my opinion.
Not to mention "that" as opposed to "who."
"That" describes a thing, "who" a person.
i.e. "Cancellara is the one who gets my heart racing."
OBTW today I was watching last year's Ghent-Wevelgem race and Phil Liggett, who is the King of Malapropisms, said the peloton was going to have to "redress the situation." Maybe they could do that AFTER they address the situation.
laurie
Brand New Orbea Diva | Pink | Specialized Ruby
2005 Trek Madone Road | Pink | Ruby
1998 Trek 5200 Road | Blue | Specialized Jett
???? Litespeed Catalyst Road | Silver | Terry Firefly
Ok, i've been pondering this one for the past week & am now wondering if i'm out to lunch..
Someone please tell me why I can't say "Please email the details to me or Please email the details"?
Email can be a a verb..Email, emailing, emailed... If i'm incorrect, please provide numerous accurate sentences as examples.
Next one is Sunburn. Can it be used in the folowing manner:" I ended up with a sunburn." ?? I could say " I'm sunburnt" but can I say " I'm sunburnt on my back"? Should one only say " My back is sunburnt"?
Thank you..
Last edited by crazycanuck; 01-30-2010 at 10:22 PM.