Wavedancer: I tried your little trick today when I went out for a ride. It worked great. The few times I did stand up for the hills, I mentally focused on the lower abs and hips. Seemed like my knees were happy campers! And I found I wasn't moving my shoulders so much. Think that might have been why I was torqueing my knees. And the clipless pedals are good, too! Happy day; very happy day.