New knee pain

[nscrbug]

So...yesterday I picked up a new pair of cycling shoes. I found a closeout deal on a pair of Sidi Ergo 2's (men's) from my LBS. I had an extra pair of new cleats at home, so I brought them with and had my fitter set them up for me. Wore them on today's ride, and experienced an odd new pain in my left knee literally from the moment I rolled out of my driveway. I kept thinking (hoping) it was just some odd fluke and would eventually work its way out. But 60 painful miles later, it was still bothering me...even more so, since I had kept riding on it all morning. Going up hills were the worst...felt a really bad twinge with each pedal revolution. The pain is concentrated along the outside of the kneecap. Not really in front or in the back...but laterally. My feet felt fine in the new Sidi's...no foot pain whatsoever. But I have to wonder if it's the shoes causing the pain, because that is the ONLY thing that was changed. I'm going to try wearing my old Northwaves tomorrow, to see if I still get the knee pain. I've been icing it all day, and it feels fine now, but who knows how it will feel on the bike in the morning. Any other ideas???

Linda

[smittykitty]

While I know NOTHING!!!, have to wonder about cleat position????

[nscrbug]

Like I said...my fitter put the cleats on according to the measurements he had and also by visually comparing them to my current shoes. I'm fairly certain that he got the cleat position correct. I have to wonder if it's just the shoe itself? This was my first experience with Sidi's...have worn Northwaves for the past 3-4 years. Could it be that I'm doing something "funky" with my knee because of the different shoe?

Has anybody here gone from wearing another brand of shoe to a Sidi, and found that it just wasn't "right" for them?

[OakLeaf]

Different sole thickness?

[nscrbug]

Ahhh...good call, Oakleaf. You may be onto something there. My Northwaves do seem to have a lower profile than the Sidi. I wonder if the difference in soles could be positioning me higher in the saddle? Would that cause lateral knee pain? I always thought saddle too high = back of knee pain. Mine is situated on the side of the knee...not quite the back.

[OakLeaf]

Just visualizing it, it seems to me that it would make your seat height effectively too low, not too high. A taller shoe would decrease the distance from saddle to pedaling surface.

Knee pain (and swelling) similar to what you describe is what happens to me when my knees are bent too much at the top of the pedal stroke - though I never had an issue with sole height that I'm aware of. Right in the lateral notch between the patella and femur.

Maybe just try raising the seat height a millimeter or two.

[zoom-zoom]

If my cleat rotation is off by much at all I instantly get pissy pains in my knees. I'd suspect that before I'd suspect anything else, personally.

[nscrbug]

Thanks for the tips and advice, everyone! I guess I also should have mentioned that I already do have shims in place on both my old Northwaves and these new Sidi shoes. By shims, I'm referring to a thin, yellow plastic shim that is placed between the cleat and the sole of the shoe. I should also mention that my Northwaves had a carbon-reinforced sole...whereas, the Sidi Ergo 2's have a full carbon sole. Not that it really matters, though. But just from looking at a sideview of both shoes...the Northwaves sit a bit lower and flatter to the ground than the Sidis do. Even if you were to Google a pic of both shoes...you can immediately see a difference in the side profile of the shoes.

Yeah, I'm just perplexed (and frustrated) by this new knee pain. Mainly because this is happening on my brand new custom Seven that I just recently got. I've been riding it for a few weeks now, and up until yesterday...had no knee pain whatsoever...so I'm not entirely clear on why this has suddenly cropped up, unless it really is due to the new shoes. I just emailed my fitter explaining everything to him...so I'm sure he'll have some insight on what we can do to correct it.

[indysteel]

I hope your fitter is able to sort it out. To me, it sounds a bit like an ITB issue. One thing I'd add is the word of warning that my fitter gave me every time we adjusted something on one of my bikes or to my interface with the bike: After an adjustment, go for several short/easy rides first before committing to anything long or hard. I'm tempted to give you a gentle finger wagging for continuing to ride 60 miles while in that kind of pain.

[Wahine]

I do bike fitting and these are the things that I would think about, most others have already mentioned:

1) If the sole of the new shoe is thicker you will have to change the saddle height slightly upward as Oakleaf mentioned.
2) The cleat rotation may be off. Believe me, no matter how many bikes I fit, I still can reverse the rotation I want once in a while and it's really easy to shift the rotation slightly on one side as you tighten the cleat. Or maybe the cleat wasn't quite tight enough and it rotated a bit as you unclipped last.
3) See if where your foot is in the shoe is the same and/or the position of the cleat mount is the same. What I mean is, if in your old shoes X part of the cleat lines up with y part of your foot, make sure it's the same on the new shoes.

I hope that helps a bit.

[zoom-zoom]

2) The cleat rotation may be off. Believe me, no matter how many bikes I fit, I still can reverse the rotation I want once in a while and it's really easy to shift the rotation slightly on one side as you tighten the cleat. Or maybe the cleat wasn't quite tight enough and it rotated a bit as you unclipped last.

I have had this happen several times. Once I get cleats where I want them I trace around them with silver paint pen to mark where they should be...then it's obvious if they get skewed.

[OakLeaf]

Once I get cleats where I want them I trace around them with silver paint pen to mark where they should be...then it's obvious if they get skewed.

I still can never get the Sharpie exactly vertical all the way around the cleat...

[BodhiTree]

I always wonder why people struggle and fuss so with clipless. It seems to be such an expensive, high maintenance, and frustrating aspect of riding.

Would something like this http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...m-Pedals,.html ever be fashionable enough to consider?

[Catrin]

I always wonder why people struggle and fuss so with clipless. It seems to be such an expensive, high maintenance, and frustrating aspect of riding.

Would something like this http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...m-Pedals,.html ever be fashionable enough to consider?

I really like clipping in with my Frogs and don't find them frustrating at all. When I road-ride on even good platform pedals I've a lot of knee pain, and sometimes quad pain, that doesn't exist with my Frogs. Now, when I mtb that is a very different story, I roll with Sunringle Zuzu BMX pedals and love them for that purpose. Eventually I will probably start clipping in on the trails, but not THIS year. If ever, time will tell.

Sadly Speedplay is moving away from Frogs and has a new MTB pedal they are starting to promote. I don't know if they are better, all I know is the Frogs work for me

[nscrbug]

I always wonder why people struggle and fuss so with clipless. It seems to be such an expensive, high maintenance, and frustrating aspect of riding.

Would something like this http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...m-Pedals,.html ever be fashionable enough to consider?

I've been riding clipless since day 1 of my cycling hobby, so I don't think I could ever go back to non-clipless pedals. I like the power transfer you get with clipless.

A quick update on my situation - I did a 32-mile ride yesterday morning wearing the new Sidi shoes...no other adjustments yet. I wanted to try the shoes again to see if the knee pain continues. It wasn't perfect, but certainly not as bad as it had been during the 2 previous rides. Maybe I just need a little "adjusting" time to get used to the new shoes? I did notice, however, that the bottoms of my feet were a tad bit tender....I think I need to look at a different insole because the stock Sidi one is way too flimsy and unsupportive. I plan on picking up a pair of Sole Slim Sport heat moldable insoles (which is what I have in my Northwave shoes) this weekend and see how that feels.

Linda