My new Madone - you will NOT believe what happened to me!

[papaver]

bummer.

[lunacycles]

Carbon fiber. It absorbed the impact by breaking spectacularly. Goooooood bike! Extra love in that bike's direction!

Are you seriously suggesting that the frame breaking into 4 pieces is a sales point for carbon fiber? And are you suggesting that if it hadn't she would have been hurt?

It is a huge bummer, but good to hear there is insurance to cover it.

[Tri Girl]

HOLY SMOKES
I'm so glad you're ok, but it pains me to see your bike so torn up. Better the bike than you. I'm just soooooo sorry.

[smilingcat]

4. I've already spoken to the shop (several times). At the first sign of low balling I'm calling an attorney - I'm not in the mood to mess around

I think that is a wonderful approach. Be nice but firm at first; but, if they start the non-sense immediatly have a lawyer intervene. you may want to drop some suttle hints that you can play hardball. Afterall, it was a brand new purchase that you were looking forward to and enjoying. Only to have it ruined is more than enough for anyone to have a BAADDDD MONTH or more. Emotionally I would be so angry if that happened to me.

Even though you claim no injury, you should be careful. Sometimes injuries from wrecks don't show up for few days.

And like everyone else said, Really happy for you that you came out without too much injury.

smilingcat

[runningteach]

I'm so sorry but thank goodness you are OK. What a beautiful Madone. I hope the insurance company doesn't give you any problem.

[lunacycles]

Knotted Yet said

Carbon fiber. It absorbed the impact by breaking spectacularly. Goooooood bike! Extra love in that bike's direction!

ETA: be sure to replace your helmet, too. Another designed-to-be-disposable item which sacrifices itself on impact.

Then I replied

Are you seriously suggesting that the frame breaking into 4 pieces is a sales point for carbon fiber? And are you suggesting that if it hadn't she would have been hurt?

My dim hump day brain thought you were implying the catastrophic failure as an actual virtue of carbon. A closer read realizes I may have that wrong (plus the wise words of another forum member via pm).

Anyway, apologies for not getting the sarcasm

I do think carbon has its place in the bike world. But it must be taken care of very carefully and specifically (like torquing bolts correctly), and owners or potential buyers should be aware that if they fail, they do fail catastrophically, injury is more likely with catastrophic failures, and no warranty will cover--and very, very few crafts people can repair--carbon once it is damaged.

OK rant over

[kenyonchris]

Knotted Yet said


Then I replied


My dim hump day brain thought you were implying the catastrophic failure as an actual virtue of carbon. A closer read realizes I may have that wrong (plus the wise words of another forum member via pm).

Anyway, apologies for not getting the sarcasm

I do think carbon has its place in the bike world. But it must be taken care of very carefully and specifically (like torquing bolts correctly), and owners or potential buyers should be aware that if they fail, they do fail catastrophically, injury is more likely with catastrophic failures, and no warranty will cover--and very, very few crafts people can repair--carbon once it is damaged.

OK rant over

My fork, for one, confirms that.

[spazzdog]

As pretty (and light-weight) as carbon is, I've pretty much decided that as long as I have to pay for the bike, the only carbon that will be on my bike is the seatpost and front fork.

I is a klutz... I would probably have a catastrophic failure getting an all carbon bike onto the bike rack.

spazz

[MtnBikerChk]

As pretty (and light-weight) as carbon is, I've pretty much decided that as long as I have to pay for the bike, the only carbon that will be on my bike is the seatpost and front fork.

I is a klutz... I would probably have a catastrophic failure getting an all carbon bike onto the bike rack.

spazz

I will never buy a carbon mountain bike - that's for sure!! I'm not even happy about the carbon seat stays on my titus but what can ya do?

[MartianDestiny]

... and owners or potential buyers should be aware that if they fail, they do fail catastrophically, injury is more likely with catastrophic failures, and no warranty will cover--and very, very few crafts people can repair--carbon once it is damaged.

OK rant over

I just don't ever understand how in the world these arguments come up in threads like this.

The bike was HIT BY A CAR! I'm sorry, but steel, aluminum, and titanium don't have good car vs. bike track records either. And honestly, while people tout that "you can fix steel", "fixing" it after a catastrophic car vs. bike incident is going to cost nearly as much as a new frame if not more assuming a builder will even touch it. And I've heard people that did it anyway for a "favorite" bike say that it never rode anywhere near the same again so what's the point (and yes, the original builder fixed it)?

I wouldn't trust steel that showed signs of damage after a car vs. bike incident any more than I'd trust carbon, and I doubt I'd truly trust it after it was "fixed" either ("was another weld stressed?" "did we miss a micro-fracture?" etc.), so that puts me in the same boat no matter the material in this instance.

We can argue carbon vs. steel vs. aluminum vs. titanium till the cows come home and they ALL have their strengths and weaknesses. Really though, it doesn't matter the material, if you're hit by a car your bike is toast in almost all cases. It's ridiculous to use car vs. bike carnage as evidence against carbon. (and to be perfectly honest, when a professional does so it discredits them, in my eyes at least)

OP: I'm glad you are ok and that you should be getting another brand new Madone. Horrible tragedy to loose a bike on the maiden voyage though. Maybe you should (carefully) break a champagne bottle over the next for good (better) luck!

[lunacycles]

I just don't ever understand how in the world these arguments come up in threads like this.

The bike was HIT BY A CAR! I'm sorry, but steel, aluminum, and titanium don't have good car vs. bike track records either. And honestly, while people tout that "you can fix steel", "fixing" it after a catastrophic car vs. bike incident is going to cost nearly as much as a new frame if not more assuming a builder will even touch it. And I've heard people that did it anyway for a "favorite" bike say that it never rode anywhere near the same again so what's the point (and yes, the original builder fixed it)?

I wouldn't trust steel that showed signs of damage after a car vs. bike incident any more than I'd trust carbon, and I doubt I'd truly trust it after it was "fixed" either ("was another weld stressed?" "did we miss a micro-fracture?" etc.), so that puts me in the same boat no matter the material in this instance.

We can argue carbon vs. steel vs. aluminum vs. titanium till the cows come home and they ALL have their strengths and weaknesses. Really though, it doesn't matter the material, if you're hit by a car your bike is toast in almost all cases. It's ridiculous to use car vs. bike carnage as evidence against carbon. (and to be perfectly honest, when a professional does so it discredits them, in my eyes at least)

Hey I never dissed carbon: I just said it can (and tends) to fail catastrophically. It needs to be treated with great care. Other materials can handle less delicate maintenance. Whatever happens to carbon fiber, be it car or DH overtightening the stem bolts, or whatever--when it fails, it fails completely. No warning. In the Tour De France, and many places elsewhere, you can find images (not on Versus) of professional riders on their professionally maintained full carbon rides, trying to avoid the inevitable when they are holding their handlebars/stems in the air completely disengaged from a failed carbon steerer tube.
Steel doesn't do this, and yes, steel has its shortcomings in other ways. As does aluminum. You are absolutely correct: every material has its strengths and its shortcomings. I fully owned carbon fiber has its place in the cycling world. I wasn't telling the OP or anyone not to buy another carbon bike. I was talking about how it fails and the difficulty in dealing with it once it does. And, I still maintain that a bike coming apart in 4 places as it did in this instance, regardless of what impact it incurred (she slammed into the car, the car did not hit her bike) on a several thousand dollar bike, is unacceptable. But yeah, duh, I am biased.

[KnottedYet]

Are you seriously suggesting that the frame breaking into 4 pieces is a sales point for carbon fiber? And are you suggesting that if it hadn't she would have been hurt?

It is a huge bummer, but good to hear there is insurance to cover it.

Nope. I'm saying that the breakage absorbs energy. She loved that bike, and I was putting the positive spin on the fact that the bike absorbed a lot of energy that her body didn't have to. Losing the bike is heartbreaking, but thinking of it as a positive self-sacrifice on the part of the bike (I anthropomorphise bikes) lessens the heartbreak.

From the physics standpoint, yes, the breakage was a plus for her body which hit after the frame already collapsed. (absorbed energy)

FWIW, all my bikes are steel. But I honor any bike that gives its life no matter what it's made of. So, I honor her bike. I wasn't being sarcastic.

Edit to Add: steel would bend, aluminum would crack, carbon fiber would break. In an accident like this, I see a frame as something meant to be replaced just like a helmet. Each material fails in its own way, but each has absorbed energy the body didn't have to. I work every day analyzing the effects of forces on the human body. The less trauma the body experiences the better, in my book. Bend, crack, or break; if I'm not having to teach an athlete how to use a wheelchair at the end of the day, it's all the same to me.

[Mr. SR500]

Glad you are ok! I would simply turn in the full price you paid, assuming the shop can get the same bike etc... If it cost more let insurance pay. I'm not going to debate pain and suffering, etc... but the bike should be right!

[Mr. SR500]

Hey I never dissed carbon: I just said it can (and tends) to fail catastrophically. It needs to be treated with great care. Other materials can handle less delicate maintenance. Whatever happens to carbon fiber, be it car or DH overtightening the stem bolts, or whatever--when it fails, it fails completely. No warning. In the Tour De France, and many places elsewhere, you can find images (not on Versus) of professional riders on their professionally maintained full carbon rides, trying to avoid the inevitable when they are holding their handlebars/stems in the air completely disengaged from a failed carbon steerer tube.
Steel doesn't do this, and yes, steel has its shortcomings in other ways. As does aluminum. You are absolutely correct: every material has its strengths and its shortcomings. I fully owned carbon fiber has its place in the cycling world. I wasn't telling the OP or anyone not to buy another carbon bike. I was talking about how it fails and the difficulty in dealing with it once it does. And, I still maintain that a bike coming apart in 4 places as it did in this instance, regardless of what impact it incurred (she slammed into the car, the car did not hit her bike) on a several thousand dollar bike, is unacceptable. But yeah, duh, I am biased.

To many variables to make any conclusions about how, where, and why it broke like it did.

[Mr. Bloom]

I think that is a wonderful approach. Be nice but firm at first; but, if they start the non-sense immediatly have a lawyer intervene. you may want to drop some suttle hints that you can play hardball. Afterall, it was a brand new purchase that you were looking forward to and enjoying. Only to have it ruined is more than enough for anyone to have a BAADDDD MONTH or more. Emotionally I would be so angry if that happened to me.

Even though you claim no injury, you should be careful. Sometimes injuries from wrecks don't show up for few days.

And like everyone else said, Really happy for you that you came out without too much injury.

smilingcat

+1 If the insurance company has enough knowledge to just replace the frame and selected components, I'd personally say "no deal". This was not a "used" bike...you deserve a new replacement. While you're being nice but firm, don't assume that the insurance company means to do what they say. Choose your words carefully coax them to the right conclusion. For instance, I think it's better to say something like "please don't make me feel like I need to get an attorney to protect my interests" rather than "do this or else I'm getting an attorney".

Remember that if you get an attorney involved, it's unlikely that you'll recoup that cost. The other driver was cited, so you should be OK.