Seat height vs bar height?

[Becky]

I bought it used and the handlebars/shifters came like that. I do really like where the shifters are.

So - do I need more handlebar tape before I start this mess? The shifters are on top of the tape . . . .

I'm getting a little intimidated by this whole process. I am seeing myself sitting there surrounded by tape and handlebars and pieces, not knowing where everything's got to go . . .

Check out these instructions: http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=71 They show you how to wrap a bar from scratch. You'll only be doing it from, at worst, just below the shifter lever.

Then again, if you like where the shifters are, don't mess with them. Start with some of the other tweaks and see if they make things better.

[Cataboo]

Where those shifters are looks like it probably bends your wrist/hand back towards you - which is a recipe for developing pain or numbness... you want to try to keep your wrist in a neutral position while riding.

Try just swivelling the handlebars down and seeing how you like the position of the shifters first... you just have to loosen the bolts lightly and it should rotate.... if it doesn't work for you, then you might want to retape things... but if you're careful when you unravel the handlebar tape that is on there, you won't need new handlebar tape. just pay attention to how it's wrapped, have some electrical tape to retape it at the ends afterwards...

to loosen the shifters so you can move them, pull that rubber hood thing at the top back towards the handlebar, and it'll expose a bolt head on the outside of the shifter... loose then, the shifter'll slide to whereever you want, then tighten it back up and then retape.

Your wheels do look different, definitely less spokes - but that's not a bad thing... more performance type wheels typically have less spokes because it makes the wheel lighter. it does make the wheel not quite as strong - so if you're very heavy that might be bad when hitting a bump.

I'm not sure if bikepedia is entirely accurate on their archives of lemond bikes... I've looked up a few lemond bikes I've seen on craigslist, and the pics/descriptions usually don't match the listings and what I see on forums when I google... but since trek took the lemond archives down, bikepedia's all there is.

[jusdooit]

Mine have fewer spokes.

The bike on wikipedia has single spokes, your bike has paired spokes. Overall count should be about the same.

+1 on rotating the bar down. And the stem is definitely in a positive position and can be flipped. It may say on the stem +/- the number of degrees. Looks like maybe 7%.

Forgot to add that changes to the bar and/or stem may require adjustments to seat position.

[OakLeaf]

have some electrical tape to retape it at the ends afterwards...

You'll also need to remove and replace the electrical tape that holds the brake cable housings to the bars. Once you unwrap the handlebar tape, you'll see it - normally they're taped at the corners and again right inside of where the handlebar tape will cover them. Taping the housings holds them in place while you're wrapping the bars, and also keeps the housing from trying to pull the handlebar tape off from the inside.

to loosen the shifters so you can move them, pull that rubber hood thing at the top back towards the handlebar, and it'll expose a bolt head on the outside of the shifter... loose then, the shifter'll slide to whereever you want, then tighten it back up and then retape.

For Shimano brifters, don't pull the hood back from the top. As you look at the shifter from the outside, you'll see the beginning of a channel in the hard plastic part right outside the edge of the hood. This is where your 5 mm Allen wrench will go to loosen and tighten the clamp. You just need to pull the hood out a little bit at the side there, and you'll see the head of the bolt.


A torque wrench is a good investment for this kind of adjustment (including repositioning your bars on the stem, and the stem on the steerer tube), although obviously it's much less critical with alloy bars than it is with carbon. You want it tight enough that nothing is going to slip out of place at a critical moment, but not so tight that you're risking damage.

As long as you're careful, you should be fine. If you're not confident that you can do it by feel, count turns of the fasteners as you loosen them, then re-tighten them the same number of turns. That presumes that whoever tightened them last put the proper torque on them - which isn't always the case - but it's somewhere to start.

[Cataboo]

Oakleaf, you're more skilled than I - I always just tug it down all the way - just makes it easier to see what I'm doing.

[staceysue]

OK - I'm back from a very exhilarating ride.

Thank you very, very much for all of this awesome information. Honestly - you people are the greatest. I didn't move the shifters yet, but when I do I'm going to have this thread right in front of me.

I took out two of the spacers from below the bars and put them above, rotated the bars, and then fixed the aerobar. I took it for a nice ride and stopped about 3 times to make adjustments along the way. I'm thinking I still want to raise the seat a little and maybe drop the bars more. It's feeling so much better than before - much more enjoyable to ride. Thrilling, actually. I think it can still get a little better, though.

My knees just touch my elbows when they come up. It feels comfortable to me but I'm wondering if it means I need to move my seat back a little. When my legs are extended, there's still a bit of a bend to them.

I'm much more comfortable in the saddle now - like I'm not sitting in it so heavily. Part of it is that my legs are getting stronger and I'm riding in slightly higher gears, and part of it is that I'm leaning forward more and putting more weight on my hands.

Here's a picture after the adjustments.

[OakLeaf]

Oakleaf, you're more skilled than I - I always just tug it down all the way - just makes it easier to see what I'm doing.

No, maybe we just don't have the same brifters. On my R700s you can actually see a lot more of the channel and bolt if you pull the hood only from the side. Pulling it from the top puts a lot of tension on it that keeps it from pulling away from the side where the bolt is located.

Plus, it's such a PITA to get it back on if you pull from the top. I had to try it just now, to see.


Glad you're making progress staceysue!

Re: knees/elbows, you want to set your saddle fore/aft position based on your knees' relationship to the pedals. Where your elbows fall isn't relevant to your saddle position. When you're in the drops, your knees may be inside your elbows at the top of the pedal stroke. If they're not inside but actually overlapping so that they hit uncomfortably, maybe think about either wider bars, or bringing your knees in closer.

[Cataboo]

OK - I'm back from a very exhilarating ride.

That's awesome! You should have a very slight bend to your knee when your leg is full extended - have your foot flat and ankle not pointed...

as for whether your seat needs to go backwards or forward, I'll let someone else tell you how you're supposed to know what's the right spot - something about dropping a line from your knee to the pedal. (Someone on here has posted it on 80 million threads) I usually find that when I'm riding, I shift my butt to the right spot... if I find that I'm keeping my butt to the back of the seat or going off the end, it usually means, okay, the seat needs to be push backed. But I almost always have my seat all the way back on a setback seatpost because i like a slack seattube angle. I think lemonds are supposed to have slack seattubes in general.

The shifters look like they're in a much more natural position now - can you use the drops now?

[staceysue]

The shifters look like they're in a much more natural position now - can you use the drops now?

The drops feel GREAT now. Thanks!

I was scooting back a bit, so I went ahead and moved my seat back a little - I'll find out tomorrow if it works.

[staceysue]

Re: knees/elbows, you want to set your saddle fore/aft position based on your knees' relationship to the pedals. Where your elbows fall isn't relevant to your saddle position. When you're in the drops, your knees may be inside your elbows at the top of the pedal stroke. If they're not inside but actually overlapping so that they hit uncomfortably, maybe think about either wider bars, or bringing your knees in closer.

My knees are coming inside my elbows and it feels great. Now - how are the knees supposed to line up with the pedals?

[VeloVT]

Everyone is different, but I would say you've rotated your bars too far in the other direction. A line extending from the end of the drops would now point up -- and in most set-ups with anatomic (rather than round) bars it would point slightly down (not horizontal). I would be a little worried that your wrists would be breaking in the opposite direction, rather than being in a neutral positions. Also I would think the ramps and the especially the bottom part of the drops might be pretty uncomfortable now (it's sometimes nice to be able to hold the ends of the drops getting started sprinting, for instance, and they don't look like they'd be comfortable in that position). Just my .02.

I also wonder if you are wanting to rotate your bars down that far (i.e. get the hoods farther away) if you might not really be wanting a longer stem.

[Kano]

Rather than moving the saddle back, try making it more level to help with the "scooting back" you noticed. In the more recent picture, it looks to me like the nose is tilted WAY down?

The next fun change to make is clipless pedals. You want to feel more power? Add the up stroke to your arsenal!

Karen in Boise

[KnottedYet]

There are lots of ways to make a bike that's a bit too small fit well, keep experimenting! Like Liza said, you can get a longer reach stem to place the bars out farther; and if you can't get the saddle back any farther on the rails but you still feel like you want to be even farther back there is the option of a seatpost with more set-back.

Neither stems nor seat-posts are terribly expensive, and are worth it to get the fit dialed in. (We've all done the fit dance, some-times folks sell their various stems and such in the For Sale section. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58 It's a good way to get parts fairly cheap.)

[jusdooit]

It still looks to me as though the stem could be flipped over. Does anyone else see this? +1 on nose of seat being tilted down too far.

[VeloVT]

I agree on the saddle tilt looking extreme, also. This can cause its own problems (more weight than might be desireable on hands, extra friction on seat from sliding forward and pushing back, etc). In general if you need an extreme tilt to your saddle, it usually indicates that it's either the wrong saddle for you or there's another fit problem going on.