Not wanting "organic" bread

[Cataboo]

Hmmm. Half vietnamese here - being a french colony made crusty french baguettes part of the Vietnamese culture. Not to mention "expresso" with condensed milk. I couldn't say definitely, but I'd assume that the parts of society eating french bread were the more educated & higher classes, since those were the ones that were learning french, etc. So I wouldn't say all asians would have a problem with crusty or hard bread.

That being said... after dating a belgian guy for several years, I can definitely appreciate good bread, however I don't/can't see bread as a dietary staple. I find it constipating and just don't feel as good on it as opposed to a diet with rice as a dietary staple. I'm more than fine with brown rice or wild rice and will often mix it in with white rice (it's hard to beat a 25 lb bag of white rice for $12). I mostly figure that half my ancestors evolved eating rice as a dietary staple for however many generations, and that's just what's natural for me.

I do like some bread on occasion, and will usually just go to costco and get their big bag of ciabata for $5 or some of their other bread offerings, eat a bit and freeze the rest to use when I want bread.

As for organic vs. non-organic food... I basically am more interested in locally produced food as opposed to organic food. An organic bell pepper that has been trucked across the country to me to buy for $5.99 a lb seems silly vs. going to the local farmers market and buying a bell pepper that may or may not be organic but didn't have to be trucked across the country.

I also take the term organic with a grain of salt... given that the regulations on what can call itself organic are fairly loose. I don't avoid organic food, but I will usually only buy it if it's the same price or just moderately more than the non-organic alternative. I'm more likely to buy milk from cows that haven't been treated with bovine growth hormone for $3 than organic milk for $5 vs. non-organic bgh treated milk for $2.50

And I'm a bit skeptical that we're going to feed the entire world on organic farming... I definitely believe in smarter farming than what we're currently doing. I grow some herbs & some veggies in my yard

[papaver]

As for organic vs. non-organic food... I basically am more interested in locally produced food as opposed to organic food. An organic bell pepper that has been trucked across the country to me to buy for $5.99 a lb seems silly vs. going to the local farmers market and buying a bell pepper that may or may not be organic but didn't have to be trucked across the country.

I couldn't agree more.

[msincredible]

As for organic vs. non-organic food... I basically am more interested in locally produced food as opposed to organic food. An organic bell pepper that has been trucked across the country to me to buy for $5.99 a lb seems silly vs. going to the local farmers market and buying a bell pepper that may or may not be organic but didn't have to be trucked across the country.

+2, I try to buy locally as much as possible, we are also trying to grow some of our own.

BTW I am amused by people who think that because I am vegan, it is even more important that I eat organic veggies/fruit than the omnivores. Pesticides etc. tend to concentrate as you go higher up on the food chain.

[Christopher]

+3 re local food. Added to that, at a Farmers' Market you are paying the farmer direct rather than a supermarket. I get my eggs direct from a lovely farm with free-range chickens everywhere, put £1 through the postbox and pick up a half-doz from the box in the yard....

[OakLeaf]

Well, yes and no.

Small-scale agriculture is always local, but local doesn't guarantee non-industrial. As isolated as some people may be from agriculture, there are few places in the USA that aren't within 100 miles of industrial farms.

Buying local industrial-chemical food means I'm poisoning farmworkers whom I might meet, poisoning the aquifer that might feed my own water supply, and infesting my own neighbors and maybe myself with diseases. No thanks. (Not that I mean NIMBY, only that "local" poses no advantage and in fact is a personal disadvantage when agriculture is industrialized.) I'll choose long-distance organic over that. Even though organic standards were severely diluted at the urging of industrial agribusiness, they're not completely worthless.

Also, depending on your jurisdiction and the rules of the particular market, buying at a "farmers'" market doesn't always guarantee that produce is local. It burns me up to go to a "farmers'" market and find produce imported from hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

So, if produce comes from a small-scale local farm; if eggs, meat and cheeses are truly pasture-raised; then yeah, absolutely, the "organic" label is a plus but absolutely not a requirement. But if you're buying some products of industrial agriculture (and face it, all of us except maybe GLC1968 do, and I don't think even she grows, threshes and mills her own grains), then the "organic" label is definitely an important value-added.

[PamNY]

A Filipino woman (I judged this from her visage and her accent) beside me in line-up at the artisan bakery asked the clerk: "Do you have any bread that is not organic?" I think the clerk was trying to figure this one out because most of their bread choices were "organic" or healthy. I turned to the woman and said, "But it's healthy." She said the bread was not for her. She nearly glared at me..

Listening to people moralize about food is annoying. Makes me want to eat a bowl of Froot Loops.

Pam

[Pedal Wench]

I just bought a can (as a joke) of spray-can pancake batter. Looks like a can of Reddi-whip whipped cream, but it's pancake batter. Says it's organic. I seriously doubt it's going to be very healthy...

[salsabike]

Listening to people moralize about food is annoying. Makes me want to eat a bowl of Froot Loops.

Pam

Yes!

[bmccasland]

All this about bread bakeries reminds me of when I moved to NorCal and was thrilled to see there was a "French Bakery" in town, and my supervisor loved it, two thumbs up! So I went with great expectations - and they took fresh loaves of bread and immediately stuck them in plastic bags to keep the crust "nice and soft". Found out said supervisor had gone to France and hated the bread there, "couldn't find a decent piece of bread, it was this lousy crusty stuff."

You say Tom A toes, I say tom O toes.

I didn't go back to the French Bakery - they would NOT sell me a loaf of bread fresh out of the oven not stuffed into a plastic bag. I soon discovered my local Safeway grocery - that had an in-store bakery stocked plastic bags and paper for their bread, thus keeping both kinds of customers happy.

[OakLeaf]

Well, it's annoying to me to listen to people who talk about people who try to take responsibility for the world they live in, as though it were a bad thing, and it's so much cooler to not give a @#$!.

But you know what? If there were a thread about Froot Loops, I just wouldn't click on it.

[Tuckervill]

Listening to people moralize about food is annoying. Makes me want to eat a bowl of Froot Loops.

Pam

ROFL.

[Cataboo]

Well, it's annoying to me to listen to people who talk about people who try to take responsibility for the world they live in, as though it were a bad thing, and it's so much cooler to not give a @#$!.

But you know what? If there were a thread about Froot Loops, I just wouldn't click on it.

I don't think the comment about fruit loops was directed at this thread, but more at shooting star being glared at by the phillipino woman after telling her that organic bread was healthy.

[GLC1968]

Well, yes and no.

Small-scale agriculture is always local, but local doesn't guarantee non-industrial. As isolated as some people may be from agriculture, there are few places in the USA that aren't within 100 miles of industrial farms.

Buying local industrial-chemical food means I'm poisoning farmworkers whom I might meet, poisoning the aquifer that might feed my own water supply, and infesting my own neighbors and maybe myself with diseases. No thanks. (Not that I mean NIMBY, only that "local" poses no advantage and in fact is a personal disadvantage when agriculture is industrialized.) I'll choose long-distance organic over that. Even though organic standards were severely diluted at the urging of industrial agribusiness, they're not completely worthless.

Also, depending on your jurisdiction and the rules of the particular market, buying at a "farmers'" market doesn't always guarantee that produce is local. It burns me up to go to a "farmers'" market and find produce imported from hundreds or even thousands of miles away.

So, if produce comes from a small-scale local farm; if eggs, meat and cheeses are truly pasture-raised; then yeah, absolutely, the "organic" label is a plus but absolutely not a requirement. But if you're buying some products of industrial agriculture (and face it, all of us except maybe GLC1968 do, and I don't think even she grows, threshes and mills her own grains), then the "organic" label is definitely an important value-added.

Ditto. I can't tell you how annoyed I was to find things like bananas and mangos at the farmers market in NC. These things were shipped there from South America, for pete's sake! Hell, there were even boxes of green beans and tomatoes that could have been grown locally that were imported from Mexico. That's just wrong, in my book. It's intentionally misleading.

It's more than just choosing organic or choosing local. The BEST is to know exactly where you food comes from (which is why we try to produce a majority of our stuff ourselves), but, in the interest of being realistic - even the act of thinking about where your food comes from is a step in the right direction.

In reality, if every single person in the US were to all of a sudden demand that all their food be both local and organic or they wouldn't eat it, a vast majority of this country would go hungry. We do not (and cannot) produce enough food to feed even our own population with these methods. This is why something like Peak Oil is so huge - it's not just about not being able to drive our cars or ship our foods...it's also about not having the fuel to run the agricultural equipment or to fertilize (fertilizers are petroleum products) the crops/soil in order to produce the necessary quantities of food. But I digress...

To be fair, I am by no means, perfect. We do buy products of industrial agriculture. Less each day, but we still do. (Though, thanks to Susan O., we are about to start milling our own grains! )

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I just bought a can (as a joke) of spray-can pancake batter. Looks like a can of Reddi-whip whipped cream, but it's pancake batter. Says it's organic. I seriously doubt it's going to be very healthy...

OMG that sounds disgusting! If it's an aerosol can, that's even worse.

All this about bread bakeries reminds me of when I moved to NorCal and was thrilled to see there was a "French Bakery" in town, and my supervisor loved it, two thumbs up! So I went with great expectations - and they took fresh loaves of bread and immediately stuck them in plastic bags to keep the crust "nice and soft". Found out said supervisor had gone to France and hated the bread there, "couldn't find a decent piece of bread, it was this lousy crusty stuff."

Too funny! Yes, in Puerto Rico people wanted nice soft bread too- a soft bread was 'fresh', a crispy crust meant it was STALE.

[shootingstar]

I don't think the comment about fruit loops was directed at this thread, but more at shooting star being glared at by the phillipino woman after telling her that organic bread was healthy.

Folks like Oakleaf, GLC, others here on TE etc. should be commended for cultivating their own food gardens, etc. When I first met my partner, who just was in the process of selling his farm, I didn't quite understand his dedication to shop local, visit farmers' markets at home and on trips..but realizing quickly just how much physical labour and time is required to raise one's own food (plants, animals, etc.), I've become a shopper that is more alert, not necessarily "pure" in my food buying habits since I still would like to eat bananas, mangoes and other whole foods that can't be grown in our climate.

My comment to the Filipino woman was quite impulsive and off-the cuff. It was probably the first time I ever said anything to anyone in a food store lineup about their purchases/desires. Otherwise I just look at people's shopping carts and baskets out of curiosity --non-plussed, bored, appalled or amazed, depending on what is in there.

Can I be allowed to be human and have contradictions? After all, I was lining up to buy my chocolate biscotti and a loaf of rosemary olive oil bread from same bakery? I have no guilt, at least the bakery makes their own biscotti which is more delicate and lighter tasting than other biscotti at other places.

Will I serve soft drinks at my home? If you visit our home, most likely not. Neither he nor I like soft drinks hence, we don't stock up on the stuff. We have limited space at home. But we have juice, wine, etc.

Catriona: I forgot about the colonial French influence on the Vietnamese baguette sandwiches. Now if they served real meat slices, instead of the over-processed meat in those sandwiches, I would eat the stuff more often. To me, the Asian-style processed meat tastes even more artifical and gross than some of the European style processed meat (ie. baloney, etc.).