Need hydration advice

[Jenn]

Depends, Jenn. Some people think they are "freddish" and some think the big mtb packs are "freddish" while the little road ones aren't... I dunno. I think the whole "fred" or "not fred" preoccupation is too middle-school for real riders.

Oh I do to, sorry my sarcasim gets the best of me sometimes, I don't care what I look like just as long as I'm comfortable (well, within reason)
We have like 4 camelbacks, but they are all desert cami since everytime DH was deployed they issue him one, it would go GREAT with my pink jersey!
We are going to HAVE to wear them, because DH got a headache that lasted for 3 days and he looked horrible when he got home.

[CyclaSutra]

This varies so much, person to person, temperature to temp, length of ride, etc.

But what I do for a long training ride is carry two bottles of Cytomax in my cage, mixed pretty strong, and then carry a camelbak of water on top of that. My little road Camel holds 70 oz, my bigger one 110. If I'm riding all day, I'll stop halfway and fill up again.

I try to drink when I'm thirsty, and if I'm climbing a lot that will be more often. But about 20-24 ounces per hour of fluids (a biggish cage bottle) is right for me. On the lesser side if it's cool, on the greater side if it's hot.

I may try those Polar bottles this summer when it gets really hot, but Wyoming is hardly ever really hot (jinx!). I also did try swallowing those E-caps electrolyte replacement at a Hammer event last summer, and they seemed to work well, but I'd rather drink my salt so I can taste it.

On an organized ride, where there are fuel stops, I'll just do one bottle of Cytomax and one of water, because I'll be stopping to get more within two hours. No bulky Camel on supported rides! Everything fits in the pockets. Even Twinkies, heh heh.

[ace]

Great advice, thanks everyone! I actually have some elete, but have never tried it. I probably should. See, when I'm riding, I really don't like eating. Drinking my calories is a lot easier.

I just did something that scared me. I looked at the body fat analysis I had done last year (I got tanked), and they worked up my caloric analysis for various activities. Based on that, I am burning 760 calories per hour if I'm biking 12-13.9 mph. So for three hours or so of riding, I burn 2300ish calories. Combining breakfast, my GU2O, and the GU I ate during the ride, I only took in 700 calories. Maybe just eating more will fix this.....I had no clue I was eating at such a deficit, because I don't get very hungry, and I don't feel tired. Just the headache.

[DarcyInOregon]

I just did something that scared me. I looked at the body fat analysis I had done last year (I got tanked), and they worked up my caloric analysis for various activities. Based on that, I am burning 760 calories per hour if I'm biking 12-13.9 mph. So for three hours or so of riding, I burn 2300ish calories. Combining breakfast, my GU2O, and the GU I ate during the ride, I only took in 700 calories. Maybe just eating more will fix this.....I had no clue I was eating at such a deficit, because I don't get very hungry, and I don't feel tired. Just the headache.

Ace, I hope you are doing solo rides to train and figure this kind of thing out, and not just doing weekend group rides. All of the cycling literature will tell you that a cyclist needs around 300 calories an hour, give or take, on top of the fluids. When you get out and bike, it is more than just pedaling the miles. You need to figure out how many calories an hour is best for you, and the calorie amount is different for shorter rides than it is for longer rides. You also need to figure out what to eat, because everyone is different, and what is perfect for one cyclist may not be perfect for you. And of course you need to figure out how much to drink and what to drink.

Yesterday Suzie and I did a metric century, 62 miles, into a strong wind, with some hills. We burned about 2800 calories, which is an estimate from our heart rate monitors. Going into the ride, we both knew that we would burn a lot of calories because we both cycle solo throughout the week, and it is something we think about all the time on our training rides. Eating breakfast and drinking before the ride, drinking right before the ride, eating and drinking during the ride, then eating and drinking after the ride - it is all critically important.

One thing to watch out for is that cycling for some of us reduces our appetite. But you have to think about how to fuel your body to be an effective cyclist, and you eat and drink because it needs to be done. You don't think, "Oh goody I don't feel hungry and I am not eating and so maybe I will lose some weight." It doesn't work like that at all. It is critically important to eat and drink at the right times, in the right amounts, and the right stuff.

Darcy

[SadieKate]

Here's where I chime in and say- for a long ride in the heat, gatorade or gu2O or whatever goes in a water bottle on the frame, and straight water into your camelbak. Or Elete or Nuun. I seriously think one of the best recent changes in hydration/replenishment that has come about is combining fluid intake and electrolyte intake, and leaving carb intake separate. Typically carb intake from cytomax, gatorade, etc etc, can upset the stomach during periods of high activity, when the body needs water. Nuun and elete are sugar/carb free (nuun is sweetened with sorbitol, elete is just seawater with potassium, magnesium, sodium, chloride, and sulfate) and also won't grow things in a camelbak bladder. (so gross to clean).
For carbs I hit my hammer flask. *shrug* it's been a good system so far. I haven't bonked yet, and the salty, brackish flavor of elete in the water disappears as one needs electrolytes, making it taste like straight water and seeming to buffer it, too... I don't get as 'urpy' drinking that as I do straight water. It might be worth a try.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this. Folks need to know that the system will only digest a certain number of calories per hour and overloading it will slow down the absorption of water. In times of really hot weather, e-Caps or Elete can give you the extra electrolytes without piling on calories.

[ace]

Hi Darcy- I feel sort of attacked by the tone of your post, although I'm sure you are just trying to be helpful. Honestly, I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't want to do a better job hydrating/feeding myself on rides. I don't restrict my calories on a ride at all (or at least not on purpose), and I know it's not about eating/drinking when hungry/thirsty, but part of a thought-out plan. I obviously just haven't been too smart about eating enough- I was completely focused on drinking enough because I got so sick last year.

I don't have the luxury of doing other similar rides on my own during the week right now. I'm under doctor's orders that I can only do one longish ride a week (25-30 miles), then at most 1/2 an hour rides 3 other times a week. This is because my knee injury flares up if I do any more than that. So I get one shot a week to figure it out.

Just know I'm doing the best I can at the moment.

[Eden]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for posting this. Folks need to know that the system will only digest a certain number of calories per hour and overloading it will slow down the absorption of water. In times of really hot weather, e-Caps or Elete can give you the extra electrolytes without piling on calories.

From what I've read most people can only digest 250-400 cals per hour. If you properly mix your cytomax (or most sports drinks) a bottle is around 150 -200 cals/bottle (depending on the size of your bottles), so you would want to experiment, but probably not exceed 1.5 to 2 bottles/hour (though I must say I could never consume that much without feeling bloaty.....). If you are using gels or bars you want to have some non-carb drink (water or water with electrolytes) to wash it down, especially with gels since you really need some water for them to work properly.

[ace]

This is a lot of stuff to think about. I think I'll try the elete next ride, combined with significantly more food during the ride, and see if that does the trick. Now I just gotta figure out what I can eat without feeling like I'm gonna puke.....

[DarcyInOregon]

Hi Darcy- I feel sort of attacked by the tone of your post, although I'm sure you are just trying to be helpful. Honestly, I wouldn't have posted this if I didn't want to do a better job hydrating/feeding myself on rides. I don't restrict my calories on a ride at all (or at least not on purpose), and I know it's not about eating/drinking when hungry/thirsty, but part of a thought-out plan. I obviously just haven't been too smart about eating enough- I was completely focused on drinking enough because I got so sick last year.

Sorry Ace. No that wasn't my intent to make you feel bad, for whatever reason. I just want you to be able to reach your goals. I am usually pretty specific in my language and don't have any underlying tones, at least I don't think so.

If you are only doing weekend rides, that might be part of your problem. Maybe others can address the situation. I know you are recovering from the knee problem, and that has limited you. But in cycling, to build our bodies, we need to cycle more than once a week. Perhaps it is the stress of doing a ride without the necessary training to lead up to it that is giving you problems? I am not saying this in a mean way, but as a way to help you analyze your specific situation.

Darcy

[ace]

Gotcha Darcy, no problem. I'm pretty direct myself, so just wanted to let you know how I felt. I appreciate your help

I don't think the one longish ride a week is the problem, but who knows. I am doing other things- four days of 1/2 hour rides, walking an hour a day a few days, and strength training 3 days. So I should be strong enough to do 35 miles once a week, I think. I'm under close supervision by both my chiropractor (who is an avid cyclist and is chiropractor to a couple of women's athletic teams at UC Berkeley) and my physical therapist (who's also a cycling coach), so I'll talk to them about it. I have the feeling, based on what I've read in this thread, that they'll just say "duh, you're not eating enough."

Based on what Kit said, I've already done some reading about the ineffectiveness of mixing hydration and nutrition, so I will try another path...

[mimitabby]

heck, now I'm confused.
how can we not mix nutrition and hydration?
that is, besides an IV?

[Jenn]

heck, now I'm confused.
how can we not mix nutrition and hydration?
that is, besides an IV?

You could mount a triple post to the handlebar, with a drip in the forearm and ride til your heart's content.!

[SadieKate]

Mimi, there are plenty of powders and capsules out there that provide the electrolytes only without any calories. You can easily over do the calories on really hot days requiring lots of liquid and electrolytes but not a lot of calories.

[aicabsolut]

Ideally, if you're getting the right amount of fluids, you'll weigh the same before and after. So 12lbs lost is obviously bad, but 6lbs gained isn't doing you any good either. You most definitely are not eating enough. For 4.5 hrs out on the bike you need waaay more calories than a bowl of cereal and a Gu, especially because of your stats. I've had some heat exhaustion symptoms when I'm pretty well hydrated just because I desperately need more food.

[maillotpois]

I struggle to take in solid food when it is really hot. I think someone mentioned using ice - I know SK had ice on her neck at Wildflower and I filled my sports bra with ice at every rest stop on DMD last Saturday. Reducing the core temperature really helps.

In terms of fluids, as it does get hotter, I tend to go more for the plain water and endurolye combination. Also V8 (the elixir of life). These things seem easier on my stomach than sports drinks. However, when temperatures are moderate I get a lot of calories from sports drinks. I think you just have to experiment and see what works at different temperatures and in different situations - it does sound, Amy, like you've had some improvement over your symptoms from last year. So that's good, right?

I had a wicked headache all morning Sunday after DMD. I drank a LOT of water Sunday and it gradually went away. I don't know if it was dehydration, but I suspect it was. There was just no way not to get behind in that ride.

We had a guy on our Death Ride team this year who suffered from heat exhaustion type symptoms. (He had to drop off the team unfortunately because he really was not well and I honestly think there was more to his issue than heat exhaustion.) But anyway, he did say something about his doctors telling him that once you have heat exhaustion "episodes" you are more likely to have this issue in the future. I don't know if it is true or not, it's just what he relayed.