Move from triple to compact is killing me.

[lo123]

lo - what size are your cranks? It is easier to spin with shorter cranks. I know shorter cranks are better for knee problems, but I don't know if they help for hip problems.

But that's also something that you could possibly change out to help.

hmm.. 170 on the cranks. I hadn't thought about that. I'll talk to the guy who did my pro fit and see if that's something that might work for me.

Don't let it demoralize you. The Madone is a beautiful ride but it doesn't sound like you are enjoying it much. That's too bad.

I'm trying... I've really enjoyed it on the recreational rides I've done on the Madone where I didn't feel like I was slowing everyone else down...
When someone circles back to pace me back to the main group, it just really feels like a loss when I was able to hang with them a few months ago.
I think I need an attitude adjustment.. or new riding buddies

a) Switching to a road triple or even a touring triple. This would mean confirming that your left shifter is double/triple compatible, or replacing it with one that is triple-compatible. You may also need a new front derailleur, but it's hard to know without seeing the bike.

What's the difference between a road and touring triple?

From my calculations, the Ultegra triple I've looked at would be 52/39/30, which with the current 27 cassette, would give me essentially one more gear, but not quite to the 1.7 gain ratio of the Tricross setup.

Maybe I need to figure out what the comparable to that is on the Tricross and give it a go? I don't usually use full granny gear on the Tricross except for one hill that's part of my 'warmup', so maybe it would work.

[Cataboo]

Okay, because I was curious and I'm taken with the idea, even though this cassette is godawful expensive, which supposedly is because it takes 8 hours to make according to some article:


Found a couple websites that say:
* XX shifters and derailleurs are not 1:1 like existing SRAM 9-spd derailleurs. They use the same ratio as Red, Force, Rival. Cassettes, chains, shifters derailleurs all are interchangeable between SRAM road and XX groups. *


So definitely anyone with sram road shifters can run the 11-36 cassette & will have to get the xo rear derailleur.

I know you can interchange sram road cassettes with shimano shifters - so I would say that shimano shifters will probably run this cassette - there is a shimano 29er specific cassette that's 12-36, so I think a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur would clear this cassette - but if not, sram does make an xx 11-32 cassette.


another quote:
As far as shifting goes, the XX shifters and derailleurs borrow the Exact Actuation movement from SRAM’s road groups. That means a) that the cable pull corresponds to exactly the same amount of derailleur movement, and b) that SRAM’s road levers and derailleurs will be compatible with the XX shifter and derailleurs.

http://www.velonews.com/article/92426
http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/06...ountain-group/

[Becky]

What's the difference between a road and touring triple?

I was thinking of something like the Sugino XD600 shown here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/11074.html. Not as low as a true MTB triple crankset, but lower than a road triple. Would require a new bottom bracket though...

9 speed shifters won't work with 10 speed cassette - but I'm pretty sure that you can run a 9 speed cassette on 10 speed shifters... You just end up having a ghost shift for the last one. Somewhere on here, debw and or lunacycles were discussing how to do it on a cyclocross bike... It may have been for someone's terry valkyrie that they were getting information on how to build up. So going to a 9 speed mountain bike cassette in the back, she'd probably only have to change the rear derailleur & cassette.

If a 9-speed cassette will work with 10-speed shifters, that might be the cheapest way to gear down. I've never stuck a 9-speed wheel on a 10-speed bike....will try this tonight!

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

[lo123]

I was thinking of something like the Sugino XD600 shown here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/11074.html. Not as low as a true MTB triple crankset, but lower than a road triple. Would require a new bottom bracket though...


If a 9-speed cassette will work with 10-speed shifters, that might be the cheapest way to gear down. I've never stuck a 9-speed wheel on a 10-speed bike....will try this tonight!

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

Becky - you're right.. 2009 Madone 5.2 WSD full Ultegra SL... Should've put that in the OP, oops.

You guys are the greatest... I feel a little more confident in my options--I prefer to go into LBS armed with knowledge so as to avoid being given the 'little lady treatment' as I call it.

[Cataboo]

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

I think a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur will do it because shimano makes a 12-36 cassette for 29ers - but maybe it won't be able to handle the 11-36 range, but the 11 tooth cog on the 11-36 sram cassette is not attached to the rest of the cassette, so it can probably just be swapped for a 12 tooth cog to make it something that a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur can handle.

If SRAM road shifters can shift the SRAM XX cassette - I'm fairly certain that shimano ones can do it as well. It may come down to being a tricky tune though, and that just will require either a skillful mechanic who's willing to try and make it work.

[aicabsolut]

hmm.. 170 on the cranks. I hadn't thought about that. I'll talk to the guy who did my pro fit and see if that's something that might work for me.

Don't worry about going shorter with the cranks for the purposes of spinning only. It is not "easier" to spin with short cranks. Instead, you are forced to spin more because you are moving in smaller circles, but you may need to exert more power to the pedals. So, it is "easier" to turn longer cranks, because you have more torque. Some big power sprinters and time trialists use long cranks with very large rings (like 56T). You just have more knee action in a larger circle, which can make for fit issues and knee issues if you're using cranks that are too long for your leg biomechanics. For small changes in crank length, IMO it is difficult to notice the ease or difficulty of turning the cranks. For some people, it's difficult to notice the fit differences, too (though 2.5mm longer hurts my knees, personally).

[Cataboo]

Shorter cranks'll limit some of the hip motion and may relieve some of the hip pain that lo123 has. Sheldon Brown says that cranks should be taken into account for gain ratios:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html

This is on rehabbing labral tears in cyclists, suggesting that excessive hip angulation on too long of cranks contributes to it:
http://www.rehabtoracing.com/resourc...C-winter09.pdf

Couple guys that have relieved some of their hip arthritis pain by switching to shorter cranks:
http://www.serotta.com/forum/archive...p?t-51194.html
(there's more threads on that on a google - so at least anecdotally shorter cranks should help with hip pain)


I know I get knee pain if my cranks are too long.

[lo123]

Thanks for all the input... I think I'm going to look at the new rear cassette and deraileur option since it seems that would be my best option to get closer to the gearing on the Tricross.

I really appreciate all the responses and options you guys have thrown out. I'm glad to know that it's possible to get a better setup that just might work for me.

[VeloLisa]

Hi! I am in the exact same boat as you are! I just got a new Madone 5.2 WSD with the compact set-up. I tried putting a 12-27 on it. It helped, but still wasn't enough to get me up one of my favorite climbs comfortably. (12% avg. grade, with a pitch of 20%) So, I decided to go with the IRD 11-34 cassette with a MTB XT rear derailleur. It works fine, but it does not have that wonderful, crisp shifting that I had with the 12-27. That is one thing I noticed right away, going from a triple to the compact double - how very much nicer the shifting was! But, the IRD cassette is acceptable. And the climbing gears it gives you are awesome! However, it is heavy at 363 grams. But, that is still lighter than a triple set-up would be.

Because of the weight and the less than perfect shifting, I decided to pull the trigger on a SRAM XX 11-32 cassette. It weighs 185 grams, which is less than the 12-27! And I'm hoping it shifts nicer.

But, bottom line, I guess it all depends on how picky you are. As I said before, the IRD 11-34 is quite acceptable. And it did give me the gearing I needed. If you're in the Sacramento CA. I will let you try it out!

Oh! And BTW, if you are interested in the SRAM XX cassette, this site has 15% off all their SRAM XX components, plus free shipping.
www.BicycleOutfittersIndy.com

[Cataboo]

Wow. When does your XX crankset come or do you already have it?

The thread I was reading about IRD derailleurs said that the older XTR rear derailleurs shifted much better with it.

[VeloLisa]

No, I have the Ultegra SL compact crankset and an XT rear derailleur. It is my understanding that the SRAM XX cassette will work with my Shimano group. At least I hope so!