Steering with your Hips

[velogirl]

For steering, the hips move in a pendulum motion -- I think that would be considered both vertical and horizontal.

When you push the inside bar, it actually turns the bar/wheel to the outside (just like the descriptions you see for motorcycling). That's the counter part of counter-steering. So, if you're turning right, you push the right hand and the wheel actually turns to the left just a tiny bit.

[aicabsolut]

Yeah that's right.. While I'm not great in practice cornering fast yet, I understand the physics (helps to have dated a guy who raced motorcycles). Though on a horse, turning right means leaning left ..this is what messes me up.

If you turn the wheel right on a right hand turn, then you're going to skid and wiggle and hydroplane around because turning the wheel right keeps the bottom of the tire more on the road. Pushing a little on the right bar puts more weight on the inside of the tire, you roll to the edge of it, and that plus the lean is how you turn rather than steering that you have to do at a slow pace (when you're slow, you don't have enough speed to keep you upright in a lean and you can't create enough friction with the tire to keep it from sliding out from under you). That's why motorcycle tires on racing bikes have tread that wraps around the sides pretty far. The faster you go, the more you have to lean to make the turn. And yeah, when sitting on anything it helps to watch your line.

Now just to get the execution down..

[DebW]

For steering, the hips move in a pendulum motion -- I think that would be considered both vertical and horizontal.

Where's the fulcrum of the pendulum?

[Mimosa]

But if your fit is good, you should start practicing. Take 5 minutes each ride and get into the drops (on a flat road).

That's why my trainer allways used to say "Get your hands of the top and put then in the drops. Otherwise your body will never learn to ride like that."

Tonight it was wet (and thus a bit slippery on those narrow tires) outside so I rode most of the way with my hands in the drops because then you are more stable and have more control over the bike.

[Crankin]

Velo, I just spent a good deal of $ of a custom Kuota bike. I have 38 cm bars (flat on the top) and I don't know if I need anything smaller. I do try to ride in the drops for a little while on every ride; but I feel weird, like I am lying down almost. I can't explain it. I can barely take my hands off of the bar to drop down, it just plain scares me. I am comfortable when I get there and can easily change gears, but I feel a like my ability to really squeeze the brakes isn't as good. I can reach them, but it's not the same as in the other positions. It's more that the whole physics of handling the bike feels totally different to me. If I am going straight, on a flat, it's fine. But the thought of cornering on a steep descent in that position really scares me because everytime I descend I feel like my bike is sliding out from under me. Now I know why. I actually have been working on this for the last couple of weeks, but riding time is now cut down a lot.
I will keep practicing!

Robyn

[velogirl]

Where's the fulcrum of the pendulum?

belly button

[aicabsolut]

Velo, I just spent a good deal of $ of a custom Kuota bike. I have 38 cm bars (flat on the top) and I don't know if I need anything smaller. I do try to ride in the drops for a little while on every ride; but I feel weird, like I am lying down almost. I can't explain it. I can barely take my hands off of the bar to drop down, it just plain scares me. I am comfortable when I get there and can easily change gears, but I feel a like my ability to really squeeze the brakes isn't as good. I can reach them, but it's not the same as in the other positions.

Robyn

Is your seat in the right position?
You can get little wedges that fit in the hoods, bringing the brake levers in some, so that shorter fingers can reach them better from the drops. I assume your bars are WSD bars? They usually have a shorter reach to the brakes from all positions. So if you don't, start with those first. Reach of the brakes from the drops doesn't have to do with the 38cm width of the bars but how the hoods are positions and the geometry of the drops. I got some 38 WSD bars put on yesterday (was riding in standard 42s that came on the bike--I could shift from the drops but not brake. It's the different geometry overall versus the narrowness that made the difference that way). If you've got women's bars, go with the wedges.

If you're too squished in and your seat is in the right position, then maybe you can flip your stem over to get the bars up higher so you aren't lying on your knees in the drops.

[Mimosa]

... but I feel a like my ability to really squeeze the brakes isn't as good. I can reach them, but it's not the same as in the other positions.

Do you have short reach break handles? If not, why did your LBS tell you about them? A lot of women suffer from the same 'reach' problem en decided to change to those break handles.

But then every new bike feels different, just don't worry to much and try to make as much miles to feel comfortable.

[Crankin]

My bars are not wsd. When I got fitted (very long, computer assisted), I discovered that my arms are not that short for a short person. But, now I am pissed. My bars were very expensive and I really don't want to spend more. But, I am going to go back to the shop and talk to the owner. He listens. Perhaps I can try the shims first, because the bars I have cost about $300. Will swing by there tomorrow....

[velogirl]

Velo, I just spent a good deal of $ of a custom Kuota bike. I have 38 cm bars (flat on the top) and I don't know if I need anything smaller. I do try to ride in the drops for a little while on every ride; but I feel weird, like I am lying down almost. I can't explain it. I can barely take my hands off of the bar to drop down, it just plain scares me. I am comfortable when I get there and can easily change gears, but I feel a like my ability to really squeeze the brakes isn't as good. I can reach them, but it's not the same as in the other positions. It's more that the whole physics of handling the bike feels totally different to me. If I am going straight, on a flat, it's fine. But the thought of cornering on a steep descent in that position really scares me because everytime I descend I feel like my bike is sliding out from under me. Now I know why. I actually have been working on this for the last couple of weeks, but riding time is now cut down a lot.
I will keep practicing!

Robyn

Robyn, I don't think this is a fit issue and I don't think you need a new bar. I think it's an issue of becoming more comfortable riding in different positions. You're become very comfortable doing it "your way," so now it doesn't feel correct doing it any other way.

It also sounds to me like you need to improve your core strength so you feel more confident moving from position to position on the bike.

How long have you been riding a road bike, Robyn?

When I first started riding, I remember a friend (who's a great cyclist) telling me I should descend in the drops. I thought he was crazy! I didn't care if every other cyclist in the world descended in the drops -- I was different and I wasn't even willing to try it. Of course, over time, I realized he was correct and I tried it, and once I became more comfortable with the position I realized he was correct.

[Crankin]

You are right, Velo. It's me. I've been riding a road bike about 5 years; I did my first year on a mtb with slicks. I am very comfortable doing things the wrong way! I know it's wrong, but I am still getting over a life of being uncoordinated, although in my recent, adult life I have been very athletic. I do have documented horrible depth perception, but if i learned to drive, I can do this. Fear is also a big part. Right now I am often stuck riding with people slower than me because although I would definitely say I'm an intermediate rider, my average speed would be a lot faster if i was descending faster. I can climb and I can maintain 16-18 on flats, which may not be a lot to racers, but I am just a fit old lady trying to stay fit. I don't want to be a fraidy newbie forever, but I know with each passing year (I'm about to turn 53) it will get harder. I only wish I had started riding sooner.

You might be right about the core thing. Generally, that has been a strength, but I have let all that lapse during the riding season, i.e. no Pilates, sit ups, weights. I am trying to get back now.
Thanks for the advice.

[aicabsolut]

My bars are not wsd. When I got fitted (very long, computer assisted), I discovered that my arms are not that short for a short person. But, now I am pissed. My bars were very expensive and I really don't want to spend more. But, I am going to go back to the shop and talk to the owner. He listens. Perhaps I can try the shims first, because the bars I have cost about $300. Will swing by there tomorrow....

Would your shop do a swap out and give you credit?
Aside from descending comfortably in the drops (your other issue), the ability to reach the brakes without choking up more or less on the drops is an issue with your hand size not arm length. Women's bars somewhat solve this problem. Shorter stems help shorter arms. The cat 1 female racer who was helping me with my new bars said it's always best to try go get the geometry right with the base component rather than jerry rigging things with shims if that can be avoided. But if you really love your bars and if your reach at the hoods and all is fine, then maybe shims would work. Also, is there a way to drop the hoods lower on the bar (some bars have little markers along the front curved part indicating different possible positions for the hoods). If you could still reach at the top, then lowering the hoods some could bring the levers in closer to the drops by changing the angle.

I hope you can make them work! At least having the ability to brake on a decent in the drops will hopefully help you build confidence at doing those decents. That's something I'm working on too.

[DebW]

You are right, Velo. It's me. I've been riding a road bike about 5 years; I did my first year on a mtb with slicks. I am very comfortable doing things the wrong way! I know it's wrong, but I am still getting over a life of being uncoordinated, although in my recent, adult life I have been very athletic. I do have documented horrible depth perception, but if i learned to drive, I can do this. Fear is also a big part.

You might be right about the core thing. Generally, that has been a strength, but I have let all that lapse during the riding season, i.e. no Pilates, sit ups, weights. I am trying to get back now.

Robyn, a few suggestions for getting used to the drops. I've noticed that when I switch from hoods to drops or vice versa, my upper body remains motionless and only my arms move. That's because my elbows are generally quite bent when riding on the hoods, or they bend more before I move to the drops. If you ride with almost straight arms, try bending your arms more on the hoods until your body is comfortable in the position it would be if in the drops. Your body should ride comfortably without much weight on your arms - the balance should be between your butt and your feet. If you don't feel that balance, maybe your saddle needs to move further behind your pedals. You can practice on a trainer over the winter, riding a highish gear and unweighting your arms, using your core muscles and legs to balance your upper body. You could also practice a tucked coasting position on the trainer for a minute or two at a time - hands in drops, crank horizontal, upper body very low, elbows in, chin near the bars, weight mostly on feet and hands and shifted a bit forward.