Floating Cleats?

[slmdunc]

My partner has had significant knee pain in her right knee as of late. The pain is in the front, behind her kneecap.

As we investigate the cause of this - we have realized, it has also been her right side where she was having cleat issues recently... not able to clip in easily, and having to seriously lean into the pedal in order to clip in. She had the cleat adjusted at our LBS, but she can't tell whether it got better or she just adjusted herself to it. (She uses Crank Bros. eggbeater pedals -as do I - and generally has been very happy with them - as am I).

Sooo... we have concluded that her knee pain is likely due to cleat issues. It has been suggested to us that she should get "floating cleats." My question is - what exactly IS this? I gather by the "context clues" that the cleat is not fixed to one place and therefore allows you to adjust to the pedal and not the other way around, however, I have yet to find a diagram or clear explanation of what a floating cleat *looks* like on the sole of the shoe. Apparently, Crank Bros. makes her cleat with a 6 degree float - but what does this mean? Is she already floating? Is it just not working? Is there more we should do? I feel I am missing the meat of the information here.

Anyone have any info? Thoughts? Advice?

[Zen]

Float refers to the amount of free movement your foot position (and therefore knees) will have when clipped in. I have Speedplay Frogs which are easy to clip in and out of, have a decent sized platform and an amazing 20 degrees of float.

[DirtDiva]

Crank Bros pedals all have six degrees of float. There are pedal systems (such as the Speedplays zen mentions) with more float, but it would be worth experimenting with cleat placement and angle before you fork out the money for something new; a lot of people have one foot (or both) that doesn't actually like to be pointing straight forward, which is how shops tend to set up cleats if you don't tell 'em different.

To figure it out, get her to sit somewhere where her feet can't touch the ground, like on the bench or table. Are the toes of the right foot pointing in or out more than the left (trouble-free leg)? If the toes are pointing further out, you need to compensate by angling the front of the cleat in (toward the bike) more, so that the foot can sit in what is a natural position for her. If the toes are pointing further in, you need to compensate by angling the front of the cleat out (away from the bike) more, so that the foot can sit in what is a natural position for her.

I hope that makes sense. Certainly makes a difference for me - my right foot is fine with the cleat dead centre, but my left toes need to be able to stick out a bit to keep my left knee 100% happy, plus I get a weird back muscle stiffness if my left cleat is set up too straight too.

[KnottedYet]

I have bad knee/hip and use Speedplay Frogs joyfully. They'll also make you "clean up your act" (and get stronger) because if you have a super-sloppy pedalling style you will unclip yourself accidentally. I was really good at that for the first few days I used them.

They have no moving parts to adjust, no tension to fuss with. Love my Froggies!

[slmdunc]

Thanks ladies! We're going to experiment with some of this info and I'll let you know what happens. DirtDiva, your instructions do make sense! We're going to follow your advice, and if some more adjusting to her cleat doesn't do it for this weekend's ride - then we may go ahead and try the Frogs.

She is hesitant to miss ANY weekend rides, b/c we have our first century approaching. Thanks for the help!

[DirtDiva]

If that knee is hurting all the time and not just on/after longer/hillier rides, it probably needs rest more than it needs more riding at the moment. Hope it's not as bad as that though.

[coyote]

Is it possible that her saddle is set too high? I was reading Any Pruitt's book and he says:

"A saddle set too high can cause pain behing the knee because you have to reach for the pedals, excessively stretching the hamstrings."

Just a thought.

[slmdunc]

We had the bike fitted to her when she bought it, but I also had been wondering about her seat. She went to a different bike shop today, near her office, and they said the seat/fit looks perfect for her.

We tried the cleat adjusting, but it's difficult to get it just right, and we can't really tell if it helped until she goes out on a good ride. Turns out... today at the other bike shop - she bought the Speedplay Frogs!

She says they're SO easy to clip in and out of that it will be a bit of an adjustment, but she thinks this may do the trick. Fingers crossed!

[OakLeaf]

How long are the crankarms? How tall is she? Is her knee bent more than 90 degrees at the top of the pedal stroke?

If the pain is behind the kneecap, but in front of the femur, if seat height is the problem, it's more likely too low than too high. A millimeter or two can make a big difference there.

There's an active thread in the Health Issues section about kneecap tracking issues. What you're describing sounds just like the patellofemoral pain I get.

Myself, I prefer non-floating cleats (Look Keo at the moment). Yeah, it took me at least 100 miles before I was done tweaking them to where they felt just right. It meant short rides at first, and a couple of roadside adjustments. And still the occasional tiny tweak 1400 miles later as my muscle balance changes.

To me, using floating cleats seems analogous to wearing clothes that are too loose instead of finding something that fits. But that's just me.