Should I be bouncing so much (rear susp)?!

Hi all ~

Looking for more of your incredibly useful advice! Okay, as some of you know, I recently bought a wonderful used Titus Racer X fullie, and I am a newbie to all things mtb. I had the LBS give her a good tuneup, and one thing they did was pump up the rear Fox shock based on my weight. The tech had me up on the bike on the trainer to get it just right (I forgot the % he set it at, but I do have it written down somewhere - he said I could make it more rigid or more plush if desired). He used a special little pump thingie (which I don't own -- should I? What is it called?) to do the adjustment.

Riding trails, I did notice bouncing since I'd been suffering with a hardtail, but it felt great rolling over roots and rocks with no butt pain at all and not having to get out of the saddle for every little bump. Great. But last night riding fireroads (and a smooth double track trail), I felt like I was bouncing bouncing bouncing with every pedal stroke, and losing a lot of power on the long climbs. I looked over at my friend's rear shock and her saddle, and she didn't seem to be bouncing (or even moving!) at all in the rear as I bounced along up hills.

Is my shock adjusted for too much travel? Or is it okay for trails but not right for packed gravel roads? Or is my friends' shock just way too rigid (she's never pumped or adjusted it in years of having the bike, not being a bike weenie *at all*)?

Help!

Emily

It's called a shock pump. (Just drop the "thingie") :p

Does your rear shock have a lock out? Pedal bob is greatly diminished if you can lock out the shock. If not maybe that will be your next upgrade....$

Hello,
I also ride a used Racer-X. Definitely get yourself the rear shock pump, and also download the manual for the rear shock. It's a very useful manual (assuming you have a Fox rear shock, that is).

My rear shock does leak slowly - not enough to bother me on a single ride, but I do have to pump it rather frequently. (I'm not yet willing to find out how much it would cost to resolve this problem...)

So, I have to check my rear sag frequently - how far that rubber ring moves when you compress the shock by sitting on the bike. The manual recommends that when you sit on the bike, the sag should be 25% of the maximum travel. I also do a more aggressive pushing of my body weight down on the bike (for "maximum sag"), and I prefer to have the ring go no lower than 2/3 of the way down.

What shock do you have ?

Second advice about getting a shock pump and checking your sag. Also what about the rebound settings ? Too little rebound damping may have you boinging a bit ( I think I've got that the right way round)

How is your pedal stroke ?

You do have to spin smoothly on a full-susser else it can feel bouncy on climbs, especially compared to a hardtail. I used to think my Titus (MotoLite) climbed worse than my hardtail as I could feel it "squat" and bounce which bugged me, turns out I wasn't really pedalling smoothly and would try to push a higher gear than I really should, I would get away with it on the hardtail as there is no pedal feedback. If I concentrate on spinning smoothly it climbs like a demon and doesn't squat.

hence I GOT MY NAME!!!!! haha

Anyway...yes, get yourself a shock pump! check frequently and know your minimum/maximum pressure. I have an Fox RP3 and have had it blow out TWICE...sent it back to manufacturer to have fixed...now you may be thinking "BAD product" (I thought that too at first) but what we were told was that when the air pressure get too low it has the chance of bottoming out (no pressure at all) :( Both times this happened we were traveling with an elevation gain/loss of over 6,000 feet quite abit (not to mention the temperature changes between NC & FL) Since I have been keeping tabs on pressure and have had zero issues...I usually check it 2-4 times a month and ALWAYS after Ernie has sat unridden for awhile or before a long remote ride.

As for pedaling...yes, smooth pedaling will help...play with your gears if you find yourself bouncing, maybe if your geared up one or two it will be easier to pedal without that bounce. I have gotten both sides of the story from mtbers...spin going uphill & use a harder gear/work those muscles!!! Do what is comfy so try both...I do and it depends on my mood/strength whether I want to spin or mash (for a matter of speaking...always minding the knees so I am not really mashing just using a harder gear!)

Yes, you should have a shock pump - get one that works for your shock.

It is usually a poundage measurement. A good way to see if you are using all your travel, using it too much on an easy ride, etc. is to:

Most rear shocks have a little rubber ring on the shaft of the rear shock. Push it up to the top. as you use the travel on the shock, the rubber ring will move down on the shock showing you how much travel you got on a ride. If you used all your travel on a ride where there weren't many bumps, then your shock may not have enough air in it and you may need to increase the pressure. If you did not get much movement out of the shock you should let some air out. This is sometimes tricky so just play with it a little.

Shock adjustment is different for everyone. Some people just like a stiffer shock, some people don't. Some people are very aggressive and need a stiffer more pressure shocks, some people are not as aggressive and enjoy more movement. It is a personal thing. The weight to pressure is a good place to start but then you have to monitor that and also find what you really like with your forks shock and rear shock.

Not certain what shock comes on your bike but mine has the Fox Float with Pro Pedal. Frankly I don't like the feel of the "Full Squishy" setting. I generally leave the shock on "pro pedal" which means the bike rides as a hardtail (so great during climbing) but will release if I hit a bump etc.

Also shocks can be adjusted for "feel". Alot of my friends don't like the Full Squish feeling so they put in more air than recommended. If you have a shock pump, it allows you to air and release air - to play around until you find a setting you are comfortable with.

There is a whole other argument that if you are boucing your pedal stroke is not smooth. Occasionally I release the Pro Pedal and just practice riding (with full squish) and try not to bounce. I admit my stroke is choppy so it's been hard. Takes practice and practice. Keep at it - you'll find a happy medium.

Wow - thanks for all the great advice!

Now to find out exactly what pump I need to pump up my shock. It's a Fox Float R Race shock, model year probably 2000. It's a proprietary shock that Titus used to use. And there ends my very limited knowledge!

I have been riding on the road for years and am a spinner rather than a masher, plus use clipless pedals, so I think my pedal stroke (at least on rolling fire roads) is fairly smooth. Since I haven't pumped the shock since I brought Artemis back from the shop (a month or so), I suspect it's lost air.

Time to go do some research!

Thanks again - you gals are the greatest.

Emily

P.S. I don't think the shock has lockout.

I have the Fox RP3 with ProPedal too. I really like it. I set it on firm for climbing smoother fireroad, middle for more technical uphills, and plush for bombing down. I recommend it.

You might want to consider a lock out for your mountain bike. You can get one that will lock out your front and rear. It is just a little lever that sits on your handlebar. The advantage of having this is that you don't have to set your suspension (air pressure, compression, rebound) so stiffly. When you are doing climbs or flat double track, switch your suspension off. It will increase you efficiency.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by madisongrrl

You might want to consider a lock out for your mountain bike. You can get one that will lock out your front and rear. It is just a little lever that sits on your handlebar. The advantage of having this is that you don't have to set your suspension (air pressure, compression, rebound) so stiffly. When you are doing climbs or flat double track, switch your suspension off. It will increase you efficiency.

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I thought you had to have lockout shocks to get this functionality? This is a separate device? I'm confused. It sounds great, but I am not ready to upgrade both front/rear shocks yet if that's required to get lockout -- I've put a lot of $$ into this bike in the past couple of months and need to wait awhile before I upgrade anything else. But a rear shock pump is certainly within my budget!

Tell me more about this device, if you could, so that I can understand it. Or a link, perhaps?

Thanks!

Emily

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

I thought you had to have lockout shocks to get this functionality? This is a separate device? I'm confused. It sounds great, but I am not ready to upgrade both front/rear shocks yet if that's required to get lockout -- I've put a lot of $$ into this bike in the past couple of months and need to wait awhile before I upgrade anything else. But a rear shock pump is certainly within my budget!

Tell me more about this device, if you could, so that I can understand it. Or a link, perhaps?

Thanks!

Emily

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Yes it is a separate device. It is a switch that sits on your handle bars. It connects to your rear and front shock (not all models do) and you can lock out all your suspension with the flip of the switch. It is probably something you would want to talk to your LBS about to make sure it is compatible with your current set up.

An example....http://webmountainbike.stores.yahoo....floatrlre.html

If you don't have the money for it right now...then you don't have the money. But is is a consideration for the future. I find it comes in handy when I race, but it is also nice for riding technical single track that is mixed with hills.

Wow, that's really cool. Unfortunately, that particular kit is not compatible with the shocks I currently have on the bike (Fox Float R in the rear and Rock Shox SID fork). It's a lot less expensive than replacing both shocks, so at some point I may ask the LBS who did the initial repair work on my bike if there is such a kit that is compatible with my particular shocks. With a 6 year-old bike/parts, though, it can be hard to find new gear that works with it, and I am sure that new shocks (front and rear) are in my future - just not right now, since I've got $2K in the bike already and my checking account is in recovery mode!

All great info, though, thanks much!

Emily

2k, Yikes! Just like us, our bank accounts sometimes need recovery also.

Emily - when you do find your rear shock pump, here's a tip: make sure not to overtighten the connection between the pump and your shock (the nut, or whatever it's called). You want to slowly tighten it just to the point where it makes the needle on the pressure gauge pop up to a positive pressure reading. Of course, if your shock is totally flat, you may not get this jump. But the point is, you don't want a supertight connection. I believe overtightening it can cause seals in your shock to fail, or something to that effect. And servicing fancy shocks can be $$$!

As I suggested earlier, best to download the product manual from the Fox website.

I also have a fox float R shock on my Trance - the recommended sag for my bike & that shock is 9mm (which I think is 25% of the travel). This figure may be different for yours.
You will need a shock pump to set the correct sag to start with (refer to your bike manual & shock manual to find out the correct sag, which changes according to the pressure you pump the shock to according to your weight- or ask your LBS).
Once that's done take it for a ride & see if it's still happening - if it's still happening try adjusting the rebound damping knob (red dial). I only realized yesterday I've been running mine at the "least" rebound damping end and it seemed to ride pretty well if a little bouncy at times-only rarely - on smoother or flatter trails the more rebound damping you have the more bouncy it would be from my understanding - and there are no hard and fast rules for settings, I think it depends on your weight and other factors too. The more you weigh the more rebound damping you may need.

So if you think the sag is already correct then try playing with the rebound knob. The fox float R doesn't have a lockout (I find it doesn't need it on on the Trance anyway) but the fork lockout does make a big difference in regards to not sapping energy on the road or up hills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pebble

I also have a fox float R shock on my Trance - the recommended sag for my bike & that shock is 9mm (which I think is 25% of the travel). This figure may be different for yours.
You will need a shock pump to set the correct sag to start with (refer to your bike manual & shock manual to find out the correct sag, which changes according to the pressure you pump the shock to according to your weight- or ask your LBS).
Once that's done take it for a ride & see if it's still happening - if it's still happening try adjusting the rebound damping knob (red dial). I only realized yesterday I've been running mine at the "least" rebound damping end and it seemed to ride pretty well if a little bouncy at times-only rarely - on smoother or flatter trails the more rebound damping you have the more bouncy it would be from my understanding - and there are no hard and fast rules for settings, I think it depends on your weight and other factors too. The more you weigh the more rebound damping you may need.

So if you think the sag is already correct then try playing with the rebound knob. The fox float R doesn't have a lockout (I find it doesn't need it on on the Trance anyway) but the fork lockout does make a big difference in regards to not sapping energy on the road or up hills.

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Pebble - thanks for the tips. I haven't even noticed a red dial but will take a look to see if my shock has it -- perhaps it varies by the model year. When the LBS pumped it, they set it on 70 PSI based on my weight (around 105). They had me up on the trainer several times to get it right. They told me that I change it according to my preferences, but of course didn't mention I should buy a pump for it!

I rode singletrack tonight, and the bounciness was much appreciated since I rolled over a lot of roots and rocks. Very different from the packed trails I was complaining about the bouncy/bouncy ride.

I do plan to buy a pump very soon (looking at at Fox HP on ebay) and getting this all figured out. For now it is more of an annoyance since I am just a beginner to mountain biking and am not trying to set any kinds of records -- just have fun and stay upright!

Thanks again,
Emily

Quote:

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Originally Posted by madisongrrl

2k, Yikes! Just like us, our bank accounts sometimes need recovery also.

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Just to clarify: that $2K included the bike (2000 Titus Racer X), which I got on ebay, new XT crankset, new XTR cassette, new Mavic 717/XT wheelset, and a general tuneup and small replacement stuff (cables, etc) at the LBS. So that was not just parts and upgrades but included the bike as well! :D

Emily

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jenxxs

Emily - when you do find your rear shock pump, here's a tip: make sure not to overtighten the connection between the pump and your shock (the nut, or whatever it's called). You want to slowly tighten it just to the point where it makes the needle on the pressure gauge pop up to a positive pressure reading. Of course, if your shock is totally flat, you may not get this jump. But the point is, you don't want a supertight connection. I believe overtightening it can cause seals in your shock to fail, or something to that effect. And servicing fancy shocks can be $$$!

As I suggested earlier, best to download the product manual from the Fox website.

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Thanks jenxxs - these are great tips! I will definitely download the manual before I do anything. I do not want to screw up my shock!

Emily

I weigh more like 132lb, but I can't remember what mine is pumped to, luckily I've been able to "set and forget", even still I probably should be checking it regularly:rolleyes:

Great tip about ovetightening - I found that I had to tighten it a fair bit to get a good / accurate reading on the shock pump (I think it's a Giant brand one) but I guess this can vary a bit with the pump. Basically every pump should put in about 3psi every pump, same if you press the button to let air out - if the gague on the pump is jumping all over the place then you probably haven't got the pump attatched properly or tight enough.

Still - I'd check other adjustments your shock may have first.

This is my first dual suspension bike so I don't really know about older or other models apart from what I've got.

I guess you should find the knob (red or otherwise) somewhere near the top end of your shock. The little red dial you can see in the picture below is what I'm talking about.
And having seen the price of this shock on the website I got the picture from, I can all of a sudden understand the value in my bike - shock plus fork equals half of what the bike is worth!

http://www.phantomcycles.com.au/thumbs/d_583.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pebble

I weigh more like 132lb, but I can't remember what mine is pumped to, luckily I've been able to "set and forget", even still I probably should be checking it regularly:rolleyes:

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shocks will loose pressure slowly over time....might want to try to check it once in a while