I met some newbies on the path today

They were stopped and I flew by and asked if they were OK... they said they were, so I kept going.

Then they showed up at the parking lot and I said I was happy to see that they made it. One was walking her bike, but everything seemed OK with the bike.

I went over to chat and apparently, the one on the Trek 1000, she hasn't ridden her bike for 2 years because she's scared of it. Even without clipless pedals, she fell off it a couple of times.

Come to find out, she was trying to stop her bike... put her feet down... and NOT get off her seat. Her friend was trying to do the same thing. I then showed them how I lifted myself off my seat to stop, so I could plant a foot firmly on the ground.

The poor thing was trying to plant her feet flat on the ground while staying ON her seat!

I thought about it later and realized that she was only trying to ride her bike, the way we did when were kids. Our bikes were that way... you sit and put your feet on the ground.

Her friend tried to help her by lowering her seat like 3-4 inches... they were commenting how the seat was way too high. When in fact, the seat was probably perfect.

So, I encouraged her to get comfy on her bike and then when stuff started to hurt... to try to get her bike fit professionally.

What's the point here? Well, I commend each and every one of you who has overcome her fears... who keeps getting on her bike... and who doesn't let a couple of scraps keep her from riding her bike for 2 years. Keep pedaling ladies!

PS- And my other point: You will not be able to touch the ground with flat feet while sitting on your bike if you are fitted properly.


HERE'S TO HAPPY RIDING!!!!

I see so many people riding with their seats too low! Seems to be a common problem. In fact, a coworker commented that she has a bike but never rides it because she feels like she looks silly on it. I told her that every person I've seen who "looks silly" does so because their seat is too low. Just raise your seat and you'll look (and feel!) so much better. Somehow I doubt that she'll take the time to go to the bike shop to have them look at it, and I know she isn't going to make any adjustments on her own. Too bad. :(

If you see them again....send them to TE :D we'll set 'em right.

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Originally Posted by Sheesh

In fact, a coworker commented that she has a bike but never rides it because she feels like she looks silly on it....Somehow I doubt that she'll take the time to go to the bike shop to have them look at it, and I know she isn't going to make any adjustments on her own. Too bad. :(

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I just feel bad when I think about all the thousands of wonderful bikes sitting in garages totally neglected and never used, and then all the thousands of people would would dearly love to be riding a bike but maybe can't afford one, etc.
All those sad unloved, unused bikes!

I am far from an expert but what I have gleaned from this site and others, club rides, cycling magazines, and the mere fact of putting on miles and miles I have decided to run a newbie workshop next spring through our Adult Ed classes.

I have tried and tried to get our LBS owner to run one but he always claims he is too busy so I decided to take it into my own hands

I have talked to a number of people who really want this type of workshop, it would cover basics such as cadence, proper seat height, spinning, how and when to shift, safety when riding on a city street, shifting to climb hills and how to get from trail to trail in our city (they are not easily found or connected).

I then want to start another club ride for beginners, the Wednesday night here used to be for everyone but now has evolved to 3 levels, sorta fast, fast, and faster, a beginner would never make it

we only have about 2.5 more months (if that) of decent riding weather left so I must be patient and wait until next May to get things going :(

MAJOR NEWBIE MISTAKE - all you newbies riding this forum - take note. If you can put both feet down while sitting on the saddle your seat is way too low and you are stopping improperly.

I see these poor folks all the time, riding along, knees hitting their chest and no doubt wondering why their legs get so tired so fast. Because your legs can't work efficiently with your knees like that!

When I teach newbie classes, one of the first things we do is make them practice stopping getting off the saddle and placing only one foot down. Then starting up again, one foot always engaged on the pedal and then sitting on the saddle. This is practice for when you get clipless.

The girlfriend of an acquaintance is learning to ride and I have been trying to explain to her the reason she keeps falling over (and thus is scared of riding) is because she insists on trying stop by putting both feet down. This generally causes the bike to go all screwy and you lose balance, flop over and down. This really happens while mountain biking cause terrain is not always even.

Anyway NEWBIES really, practice this. No stopping while on saddle. Use your brakes, not your feet and get off the saddle, while braking and out down one foot, one foot only. OK sorry for my rant but if I can change anything about newbie riders it's this!

Poor hubby last summer -- he was riding his old Schwinn, and yes, the seat was way too low. Not by choice, mind you, or he would have fixed it.

Poor dear -- he had the bike tuned up before he started, since it hadn't been ridden in like 17 years, and they said that they couldn't do anything about the seat post, which he didn't seem to really care about until...

I had been traveling, and when I came home, he and his buddy talked me into riding too. So, I got my old bike checked out, and joined them. I'm trailing along behind, when I notice....

First, DH has this philosophy, or rather DID have. You have a 20+ speed bike, with three rings up front, and some number in the back. But you don't use any of those rings except for the big one in front and the small one in back, because you get the most distance per pedal stroke. "It's the most efficient way to ride" was his thing.

So, I'm trailing along behind him, and watching him ride, and thinking, whoa, hey, he's sitting WAY too low! I'm thinking, he's got to be SOO uncomfortable, you know? He and Mark stopped to look at an ant or something, and I caught up, and said, hey, Earl, your seat is WAY too low, we GOTTA get you a new bike! (remember, this seat thing, it can't be changed) No, don't be silly, Karen, it's not too low. Yes, dear, it's WAY too low. You know how you like to pedal for maximum power and efficiency? Well, you're not even beginning to straighten out the levers. How can that be efficient?

Suddenly, his seat's too low, and he knows it, and we can't fix it, and he's miserable -- because he's being inefficient. (never mind that it's physically uncomfortable, that's just the way biking is) But he's biking. Between rides, we're playing with every idea we can come up with to unfreeze that seat post. Not because he likes riding, mind you, but because it's exercise, and he wants exercise. No, can't run right out and get a new bike, gotta be sure he "likes" it first. But he doesn't "like" it because it's painful -- knees gotta hurt, butt hurts, what all else. Me, I woulda been all over a new bike -- riding, right from the start for me, was FUN, and anything that will make it more fun...

But he didn't like it -- until, fast forward to this spring: old bike comes out of the shed for one ride. We start going to bike shops, and riding old bikes on weekends while shopping. Now he has a new bike, and he's a much happier rider! (I suppose YOU want a new bike, too, right? I probably could have ridden my old bike a while longer, but who am I to argue?) He's also learned to use the many gears on his bike (the ladies say lighter gearing, pedal faster, or your knees will suffer, dear, and you don't want bad knees for ski season, right? Oh the sneaky tricks we wives learn to coax our men into doing things that are good for them!)

I'm pretty sure he likes biking a lot now -- he's very interested in longer rides and even "toys" associated with riding. And he pouts if I have more miles than him! And THAT is probably why he's trying to keep me on the comfort-beast a while longer!

Karen in Boise

My GF rides a raleigh retro-cruiser because she wants to be able to put her feet down while sitting on the bike. She tried several bikes at the lbs (at my urging) - but did not feel safe on any of them but the cruiser. not my kind of bike but I am happy she is riding some. That putting the feet down thing is more common than it might first appear. We have now noticed several people in the park where we ride who have the cruiser style bike

KSH, Kudos to you for stopping and gave these people a hand. I'm new out on the road and it can be intimidating, esp with these guys on their $5000 bikes blowing past me... it sure makes my day to hear a friendly voice!

At least you got him to buy a bike that fit him. My DH insists that it's crazy to spend all that money on a new bike when they are for sale all over the place at garage sales and on Ebay.

Unfortunately he won't believe me that he needs a bigger bike than he keeps looking at (I believe he's in the same boat as your DH thinking that any bike size is fine as long as the pedals spin and you get somewhere). He's now bought at least 5 used bikes. One we kept for my 13 year old son (not yet as tall as me, and at least 5" shorter than DH). Three he has sold on Ebay--wrong sizes. One other we've kept for me (a trek hybrid that I have to figure out how to get to the bike shop for a tune-up without him knowing!!! He doesn't believe in those either--he's a do-it-yourself type, but this bike needs some new parts).

So he still doesn't have a bike that fits him. He's still looking, and I'm still biting my tongue!!! In the mean time I bought myself a bike (I asked for it for Christmas and INSISTED that he NOT buy it for me) that fits and I LOVE!!! Sigh! Maybe if I buy him a gift certificate to a shop, he'll be forced to buy a bike that fits!!!

KSH,
Good for you for taking the time to help those people out. Yeah, that whole putting both feet down thing is a lot more common that I ever thought. It was just never an issue for me. I've seen postings on the bentrideronline board about it. When I bought my partner a recumbent, she confessed that her inability to get both feet on the ground upon stopping was a major factor in her reluctance to ride a bike. She loves the bent and really enjoys riding now.
Beach cruisers and the Electra Townies have been mentioned here but I'd like to suggest another line of bikes that'll let you put both feet down but are far more performance oriented than the Electras. There are actually four different designs but this http://www.ransbikes.com/fusion26x26.htm# is the one that I've ridden and it was a blast. I'll keep my bent but I think I'm going to have to get one of these too! I've heard that you can order one of these and try it out for something like 30 days and return it for 90% of the purchase price. I don't know if that's accurate information, but it's a small company and they're really responsive if you call or email.

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Originally Posted by ladyfish

At least you got him to buy a bike that fit him. My DH insists that it's crazy to spend all that money on a new bike when they are for sale all over the place at garage sales and on Ebay.

Unfortunately he won't believe me that he needs a bigger bike than he keeps looking at (I believe he's in the same boat as your DH thinking that any bike size is fine as long as the pedals spin and you get somewhere). He's now bought at least 5 used bikes. One we kept for my 13 year old son (not yet as tall as me, and at least 5" shorter than DH). Three he has sold on Ebay--wrong sizes. One other we've kept for me (a trek hybrid that I have to figure out how to get to the bike shop for a tune-up without him knowing!!! He doesn't believe in those either--he's a do-it-yourself type, but this bike needs some new parts).

So he still doesn't have a bike that fits him. He's still looking, and I'm still biting my tongue!!! In the mean time I bought myself a bike (I asked for it for Christmas and INSISTED that he NOT buy it for me) that fits and I LOVE!!! Sigh! Maybe if I buy him a gift certificate to a shop, he'll be forced to buy a bike that fits!!!

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I wonder how guys transform from this type to the type (like mine) that has to have every cool bike thing in the bike shop and can't enter a new town without visiting the LBS in it!!!
"i'll bet you can't go in there without spending 100 bucks!!"
mimi

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Originally Posted by RedRansV2

KSH,
Good for you for taking the time to help those people out. Yeah, that whole putting both feet down thing is a lot more common that I ever thought. It was just never an issue for me. I've seen postings on the bentrideronline board about it. When I bought my partner a recumbent, she confessed that her inability to get both feet on the ground upon stopping was a major factor in her reluctance to ride a bike. She loves the bent and really enjoys riding now.

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Honestly, the thought never crossed my mind to try to put my feet down while still sitting on my seat. So, I had a hard time understanding why she kept falling off her bike... which made her scared of it... even though she didn't have clipless pedals. Poor thing.

I wish I could see her again to give the riding lesson tips that Keno listed! What wonderful tips!

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Originally Posted by KSH

I wish I could see her again to give the riding lesson tips that Keno listed! What wonderful tips!

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I did good? Which tips? Oh wait, let's don't call them TIPS -- newbies don't want those! tips hurt! :D

Karen in Boise

I guess that's one good thing about being short - when I learned to ride (at age 12 - a late bloomer), it never even occurred to me that it might be possible to put both feet on the ground at the same time, not even on the Stingray I was taught on! :D

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Originally Posted by laughlaugh18

I guess that's one good thing about being short - when I learned to ride (at age 12 - a late bloomer), it never even occurred to me that it might be possible to put both feet on the ground at the same time, not even on the Stingray I was taught on! :D

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That's what it was! Being short! I remember my first bike: bluegreen, white trim, and chrome. And there was this headlight built into the front, with a huge battery compartment between the tubes. I was five, I think. It had 24" wheels, and there was NO way I could touch the ground from the seat. Heck, for the first while, it was mighty danged challenging to reach the pedals when I was on the seat! Yup, that would have been when I learned to hop off the seat when I wanted to stop -- and boy howdy, do I still remember one particularly sudden dismount where I had hit a bump in the road at the same time I was trying to get down from the seat....

Karen in Boise, who learned early about top-bar clearance!

Are you supposed to get off the saddle at lights, too? I usually balance on the ball of one foot and stay on my seat. Is that bad? :o I can never get across without the light turning yellow (and often red), because they change ridiculously fast.

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Originally Posted by Evie

Are you supposed to get off the saddle at lights, too? I usually balance on the ball of one foot and stay on my seat. Is that bad? :o I can never get across without the light turning yellow (and often red), because they change ridiculously fast.

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Yep....at least I always do...unless there's a handy curb. But usually I take the lane at a red light, depending on circumstances. :)

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Originally Posted by Evie

Are you supposed to get off the saddle at lights, too? I usually balance on the ball of one foot and stay on my seat. Is that bad? :o I can never get across without the light turning yellow (and often red), because they change ridiculously fast.

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I do what you do. every time.

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Originally Posted by Evie

Are you supposed to get off the saddle at lights, too? I usually balance on the ball of one foot and stay on my seat. Is that bad? :o I can never get across without the light turning yellow (and often red), because they change ridiculously fast.

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Well, I know for me... I do NOT feel secure balancing on my foot... while on the seat. Honestly, I don't even know if I could do that.

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Originally Posted by Evie

Are you supposed to get off the saddle at lights, too? I usually balance on the ball of one foot and stay on my seat. Is that bad? :o I can never get across without the light turning yellow (and often red), because they change ridiculously fast.

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If you can put a foot down and still sit on the saddle - the seat's too low. When on my saddle my feet reach my pedals but I cannot touch the ground, not even close. I have to slide off the saddle to put either foot down. Or I would have to be leaning way over to get my foot down. That would be dangerous.

I use clipless pedals so usually one foot is always keep intact - ie clipped in. As I approach a light to stop - this is a fluid motion - but I usually, brake, slow down, unclip on one foot (my right) and slide off the saddle and put my right foot down. I sometimes use the curb to balance but not always especially if there is a rght turn lane and I have to stop out away from the curb. My left foot is still clipped in and when the light changes, I push down on my left foot, slide up onto the saddle and clip in my right and go.

I thought of something... when I'm straddling my bike, my crotch is approximately an inch from the top tube. My seat post is raised approximately 8" (my guestimate I would have to go home and measure for sure) from the top tube so you can see I could not sit on the saddle and straddle the bike. Those of you who can, is your saddle right on or just at the seat tube? I have no idea how you can even sit and put feet down. I would have to ride a small bike and be 6' tall! But I would also need approximately 9" of clearance!

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Originally Posted by bcipam

If you can put a foot down and still sit on the saddle - the seat's too low. When on my saddle my feet reach my pedals but I cannot touch the ground, not even close. I have to slide off the saddle to put either foot down. Or I would have to be leaning way over to get my foot down. That would be dangerous.
!

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I am putting my foot on the curb when i do this usually. the other foot is still on the pedal.

I have paid professionals a lot of money to make sure my seat is in the right place :)

So if you tried to put one foot down on the ground you can't correct?

If think Evie is saying she is not balancing on a curb but putting her foot down on the ground. Right Evie?

It's easier to do it on a curb, but occasionally I'll lean so I can balance on my toes. I guess that's a no-no, then.
Is there a general rule of thumb for where your seat should be? (Besides "your feet can't touch the ground.") From what everyone's saying, mine is definitely too low. If I was riding, I could probably touch the ground with the ends of my toes. How far should they be from the pavement?

Evie that's where a good fitting comes in. It is different for everyone. I know if on a trainer and I extend my legs off the pedals toes pointed, my toes are still way off the ground, probably a good 8 - 10 ". To remain on the saddle and put a foot down on the ground I would basically have to fall sideways and hopefully catch myself once my foot reaches the ground. There would be no way for me to start forward in this position.

It's up to you if you are comfortable now with your saddle height, then stay there. Just know with the proper height, your legs work more efficiently and you get more power and speed. Plus legs won't get as tired as soon.

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Originally Posted by Evie

Is there a general rule of thumb for where your seat should be? (Besides "your feet can't touch the ground.") From what everyone's saying, mine is definitely too low. If I was riding, I could probably touch the ground with the ends of my toes. How far should they be from the pavement?

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There's no rule on how far your toes/feet should be from the ground when on the saddle; however a general guideline is that when you have your feet on (or clipped into, depending on your pedal type) your pedals, at the very bottom of your pedal stroke, your knee should be bent only about 10-15 degrees. This is something that is very hard to eyeball on your own. We do it by leaning my bike against a car in the garage, I hop on and hold onto the car mirror to stay upright, and hubby stands a distance away and tells me exactly when my foot is at the bottom of my stroke (i.e., the crankarm is dead vertical - also very hard to determine on your own - I always guess wrong), and then he estimates the angle of my leg. Your knee should be bent, but not a great deal. If you have an indoor trainer, you can set the bike up in that and have someone else help you determine this is as well - it's easier on a trainer than trying to balance the bike without it!

A too-low saddle can lead to front-of-knee pain and robs you of power on your pedal stroke.

I'm short and have smaller bikes, but there is no way I can get a foot down on the ground while I am perched on the saddle. A tip toe? Maybe - I haven't tried - but doubtful. I just always get off the saddle when I stop (no curbs in the country or on the trails!) I keep my starting foot (left) clipped in and balance on my right foot.

The only bikes you can normally get a foot or feet on the ground when you stop are long wheel-base recumbents and bikes like Townies, where the saddle is low on purpose and the front crank is moved forward on the bike to achieve a semi-recumbent geometry.

Emily

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

A tip toe? Maybe - I haven't tried - but doubtful. I just always get off the saddle when I stop (no curbs in the country or on the trails!) I keep my starting foot (left) clipped in and balance on my right foot.
.

Emily

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Hi, today on my way home I observed myself. When i had to stop and wasn't near a curb, i put my toe down, yes a tiptoe, bike shoes are pretty inflexible so it's easy to balance on the tip of your shoe, with your hands on brakes and other foot still on pedal.

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

A too-low saddle can lead to front-of-knee pain and robs you of power on your pedal stroke.

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I'm so glad you mentioned that! My right knee started to hurt about two nights ago, and I was really worried. Maybe raising my seat an inch or two will help.

I'll see if I can get my mom to help with my leg position...although she's as clueless about bikes as I am. :D

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Originally Posted by Evie

I'm so glad you mentioned that! My right knee started to hurt about two nights ago, and I was really worried. Maybe raising my seat an inch or two will help.

I'll see if I can get my mom to help with my leg position...although she's as clueless about bikes as I am. :D

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It's best to try to adjust your seat while you are sitting on the bike. In a shop, they put the bike on a trainer, so you can sit and pedal. They do measurements, etc... to make sure the seat height is just perfect... as your leg should be stretch out some, but with a slight bend in the knee.

Knees can also hurt from riding a bike... if you are mashing your pedals... which means your cadence is low (85 and lower) and you aren't spinning (cadence 90+)... so riding becomes more muscular (mashing) than cardiovascular (spinning).

Evie:

Your saddle definitely needs to be raised but do it a little at time. What most fitters do is measure where the saddle is supposed to be and then over a period of time the saddle is very gradually raised to that position. Shouldn't go more than several cm at a time. That way no real shock to your body and your knees.

The most common cause of knee problems is a saddle too low but what KSH say is also true. Just get your activities whent he knee problems come up adn see if yiou can tie it to a specific event.

Good luck. Once you get that saddle raised, you will be amazed at the pwoer and strength you gain!