Possible Testosterone Explanation

The Effect of Alcohol Consumption on the Urinary Testosterone /
Epitestosterone Ratio


By Dr Simon Davis B.Sc., Ph.D.


Summary


Intoxicating beverages contain a number of different forms of alcohol,
the major constituent of which is ethanol. When a beverage is consumed
the ethanol content passes through the stomach wall and digestive tract
into the blood stream. Once the ethanol enters circulation it begins
to alter the bodies' biochemistry. One such reaction is to
differentially increase the rates of testosterone (T) and
epitestosterone (E) metabolism. The overall effect of this reaction is
to increase the ratio of T to E excreted in the urine.


It has been reported that ethanol consumption can increase urinary T/E
ratios by 30% - 277% in healthy individuals. Observed changes in
plasma T/E ratios can occur with the consumption of less than 2 pints
of lager. The ingestion of ethanol by an individual will increase the
T/E ratio observed in a urine sample.


It follows that if the effect of ethanol on T/E ratios is calculated
relative to urinary E concentrations, it can be seen that increases in
the ratio are exponential as E concentrations decrease. Individuals
with naturally low E concentrations could, therefore, experience
increases in T/E ratios of ? 940% greater than increases experienced in
an individual with normal E concentrations. Calculations estimate
that in individuals with low urinary E concentration, ratios of 17 to 1
or higher could have resulted from ethanol consumption without any
administration of exogenous T.


The current T/E ratio test as performed by Kings College Laboratory and
approved by the UK Sports, the IWF and IOC cannot discriminate between
a 13 to 1 T/E ratio resulting from ethanol ingestion or a 13 to 1 ratio
resulting from endogenous T administration.

I do recall some mention of beer after (the disatrous) stage 16......

Well he did say that he had beer before stage 18

I just heard an interview on ESPN with a guy who explained that his RATIO of testosterone to epitestosterone is elevated, but his overall level of test. is LOWER than normal. NOT what you would expect in someone who is doping.

ESPN has an interview with Greg Lemond at 4, but I've got to actually work then. :(

We're on the same list! I just posted that article in the other thread.

Great minds....

My understanding of the science behind this is that epitestosterone (type that ten times fast) elevates when there isn't enough testosterone in the body and lowers when there's too much. So if his T is low and his E is also low, there's something wrong there. Hmmm.

I'm keeping the faith, even though I've stated elsewhere on this forum that I think just about everyone in the pro peloton dopes/supplements. I love Floyd and sure hope the B sample proves this wrong (or at least inconclusive).

But even if the B sample is negative or inconclusive - unless there's some real medical reason behind this, like his body produces more naturally, etc, (which should have come up in past tests) everyone will always wonder and that is just terrible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

But even if the B sample is negative or inconclusive - unless there's some real medical reason behind this, like his body produces more naturally, etc, (which should have come up in past tests) everyone will always wonder and that is just terrible.

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I think everyone already wonders (about everyone, not just Floyd). If the B is neg or incon, it means there could possibly be a mistake in the way the A sample was handled, stored, or the test administered.

You're right - I wonder about everyone - the riders, the labs, the coaches, the press. And I know these guys are tested all the time, so statistically their chances of having an incorrect test results are higher than mine. But think about it - have you EVER had a lab mess up one of your tests? I've had a lot of blood taken out and tested recently, and I know you've had the same batteries of tests that I have - and even more probably. Ever had a blood/urine test result reversed or found to have been "wrong"? Are their tests really that much more complicated or have smaller margins of error?

not to mention; what does 70 waterbottles of water in one day do to your blood chemistry????

Remember about half went on his head.

Even if 2/3 went over his head, the effect of that much water during a high stress situation like that could certainly affect the relative readings on a test.
I mean this is the extreme edge of human physical performane!

And yes, I've known mistakes to be made.

Has he issued a statement denying it?

He is going to hold a telephone press conference any minute.....the more I hear, the more I believe he's innocent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

But think about it - have you EVER had a lab mess up one of your tests? I've had a lot of blood taken out and tested recently, and I know you've had the same batteries of tests that I have - and even more probably. Ever had a blood/urine test result reversed or found to have been "wrong"? Are their tests really that much more complicated or have smaller margins of error?

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I've actually had a lab screw up my results once and gotten another patient's results another time (and I have an uncommon last name). In the first case, had we not questioned the results, I could've died if my doc had medicated me based on those results. Bad stuff. Human error.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pooks

Has he issued a statement denying it?

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He's denied it up & down. This is the best interview I've found.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...act/index.html

Being someone with an ongoing thyroid battle, I know too well how all our hormones are interrelated.

This NPR interview w/ the Velonews editor is also pretty good:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5587194

good articles. thanks.

does anyone know when the B tests will be in or about when they are doing it? couple days or week or already done just waiting for results?

I'm glad Floyd did an interview and made a statement for himself. I'm also glad anti-doping is taken seriously but geez - it could be doping, it could be alcohol, it could be cortisone shots for the hip injury, it could be thyroid, it could be who-knows-what-else. With so many maybes and so many potential false positives, it's too bad Floyd's reputation has already been given a permanent question mark over this test.

I don't know the guy, but I'm gonna go out on a naive limb and say he didn't do anything wrong. It just doesn't fit his "no excuses" character, and he doesn't come across the least bit sneaky or deceitful. Nope, I believe they're doing him wrong.

Deb

Anyone see The Colbert Report tonight? I think he had the best explanation. Because American men have big . . . well, you get the drift. He actually had quite a spiel about this topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

Anyone see The Colbert Report tonight? I think he had the best explanation. Because American men have big . . . well, you get the drift. He actually had quite a spiel about this topic.

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I liked Colbert's comment about deserving to be recognised just for sitting on the saddle ;)

Unfortunately, I don't see a video of it on Comedy Central's site. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maillotpois

But think about it - have you EVER had a lab mess up one of your tests? I've had a lot of blood taken out and tested recently, and I know you've had the same batteries of tests that I have - and even more probably. Ever had a blood/urine test result reversed or found to have been "wrong"? Are their tests really that much more complicated or have smaller margins of error?

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Yes, labs do occasionally make errors. I work with thoroughbred race horses and testing is pretty stringent. I have a trainer friend who spent $100k in legal fees to clear his name of a false positive. It turned out the lab mislabelled some samples.

Keep in mind that testing labs are independent, profit-driven entities and human error is possible. I have members of the medical profession in my family (not to mention dating a number of physicians) and have learned that - depending on the hospital - bloodwork is done on site or contracted out to testing firms. Depending on the quality control demands of the hospital, testing protocol can vary. Most hospitals/labs are completely trustworthy, but when you witness the horrible ineptitude of places like Los Angeles' King-Drew hospital, we know that it isn't always so.

Politics can also affect the labs that are used. There is a situation right now where the lab chosen by the race tracks is headed by an ex-veterinarian. Sounds great, but this guy used to be the personal vet of Trainers A and B, whose horses have never had a positive. How does that make their rivals of Trainers A and B feel?

In horse racing, there have also been positives that were contaminated. One trainer's horses tested positive for drugs. He was suspended, until a number of other trainers (with impeccable reputations) suddenly came up positives. After costly trials and investigations, it turned out that the feed supply was contaminated. Even a few poppy seeds ingested by a race horse will produce a positive. The hay that was harvested was planted next to a poppy field!

In another recent case, a trainer's horse tested positive for "milkshaking", flushing bicarbonate into a horse's system to reduce fatigue. The horse was 90-1 and ran last. It didn't make sense. Why would a top trainer risk his license (he has some of the fastest horses in the country) for a nothing horse in a meaningless race? I personally know the guy and have seen how his barn operates - and believe him completely and totally innocent. His clients had enough belief in him that none abandoned him, and even many of his rivals say it was unlikely he milkshaked.

The way I see the Landis case, I have a similar feeling. It just doesn't make sense. From everything I've read and heard, his testosterone levels were low and there was nothing to suggest that he used it as a quick fix. Doping is inexcusable and had Landis' hemocrit levels been elevated, it would be a different story. But like I said, the facts I'm hearing about this one just doesn't make sense.

Joy