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Hey Girls - it's been a little quiet around here lately so as this is a discussion forum thought I'd kick off a topic...
Would you take drugs win? Either on the day of an event or during the off season to enhance your training and recovery?
Do you think professional riders who've been caught are scum of the earth for bringing bad press to our sport, or are they surrounded by others riders who are doped up and are just levelling the playing field?
Would love to know what you think.... :)
No, I would not take drugs to win. I don't think I could feel happy with a win knowing I had cheated. Although if there was sufficent money involved...
I don't think they are the scum of the earth. I do wonder what they were thinking and what their motivation for taking them was. Was it a peer pressure thing, "Oh everyone on the team is doing it!" Did they really think that they would never get caught?
Veronica
Easy to say "NO!" I would not take drugs to win, but hard to know what would really happen if the stakes were high and racing was my life, income, etc. For me, racing is more a personal challenge. There is very little, if any, money involved....... I can't imagine the pressure on some of the pros to do well in order to continue to be sponsored. I would hope in a situation like that I would still choose not to go the drug route. How could winning mean as much if you didn't do it fairly? (I have to admit, tho', that I've gulped down coffee and ibuprofen before racing. Quite legal, but still something that could help performance.)
I do not think the riders who've doped are "scum." I wish none of them would do it, then no one would have an unfair advantage over anyone else and the outcome would be decided solely on ability and luck. Maybe that is naive and unrealistic of me, but it would be nice..........
how about a seperate race circuit for "enhanced' atheletes. The drug takers could enter, and the transgendered folks. Then you could see what method worked best for enhancement.
Actually, I'm against it. How could you strive to be the best of the best not wholly working with your physical gifts and your training effort.
Irulan.
i, on the other hand believe they are scum for doping. it is senseless to think you will get away with it, and as far as i am concerned, if they are caught, they should not be invited back after they "clean up." they made a choice, and i don't feel they deserve a second chance. if you can't get by on natural ability in the pro circuit, then maybe they shouldn't be racing the pro circuit.
I don't think anyone much is "scum" -- LOL. However, I think they've given themselves an unfair advantage and are cheating during the event. :) It depends on what they're taking as to whether I think it's okay or not offseason for them..
If I was pro I'd like to think I wouldn't take drugs, but like Annie says, the pressure on rides must be huge. It's their livelyhood so they need to do well, win the big races and be successful.
On saying that, they've got their career and reputation in the balance. You've have to be pretty confident you won't get caught to risk all that.
I like Irulans idea of an Enhanced circuit. Maybe they should insist that all riders are give a dose of whatever at the start of a race, and the ones cheating - ie the ones who'd already taken the maximum dose would be spotted as they'd be the ones refusing the take the extra dose .... erm... anyway...:rolleyes:
I 'm not sure what I think about drug use in the off season. Where do you draw the line between suppliments and recovery aids and doping?
Not something I've come across myself, but has anyone ever been offered ' a little something' be anyone ' just to help you out?'
LOL! Yeah, I've been offered GU, gatorade, accelerade, ibuprofen, but that's about it. Only legal substances. I would be totally shocked if I ever was offered anything of dubious legality.Quote:
Not something I've come across myself, but has anyone ever been offered ' a little something' be anyone ' just to help you out?' [/B]
I agree with Mighty M... I struggle to see a HUGE difference between the accepted drugs and the unacceptable ones. Perhaps I am not educated enough on what is out there as options. But I know I prefer to use accellerade and gu on long rides as it aides my perfomance. I don't race anymore, and I have never tried anything I can't buy at the LBS. If I intenionally use these performance enhancing drugs, does that mean I didn't honestly beat the guy that only had water in his camel back. I mean seriously, if he had the same oportunity as I did to get ahold of a cliff bar and a gu shot, and chose a banana and water instead...does that mean I cheated?
Perhaps looking at why these drugs are illegagle would help. Do they come with serious health risks, or are they just plain performance enhancers?
Karen
Funny, I never considered gu etc. to be performance enhancers. They are just nutrition. Personally I can't take gu. I'd rather have the banana. :D During the tour the riders were given cokes so caffeine must be okay.
Veronica
Where *do* you draw the line between nutritional supplements and doping? I've been wondering about that since this thread started, here's what WADA (the World Anti-Doping Agency) has to say (for the entire document listing banned substances, go here:
So, stimulants are out (including ephedrine in high doses), narcotics, marijuana, steroids, hormones like EPO and insulin, masking agents, and other things I've never heard of. Alcohol is OK though. And caffeine and codeine are on WADA's monitoring list so that they can detect "patterns of misuse."Quote:
4.3.1 A substance or method shall be considered for inclusion ... if WADA determines that the substance or method meets any two of the following three criteria:
4.3.1.1 Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect, or experience that the substance or method has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance.
4.3.1.2 ... the Use of the substance or method represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete.
4.3.1.3 WADA's determination that the Use of the substance or method violates the spirit of sport described in the Introduction to the Code.
Interesting.
I was assuming ephedra and anything more potent. Didn't think of gu. :)
Apparently they either have, or are just about to take caffine off the list of controlled substances. At the start of the Tour each day a lot of riders gulp down a couple of strong espressos but at the moment there's a limit to how much caffine they're allowed.
I know caffine is very useful for giving you a bit of go, but personally a strong coffee before a ride does very odd things to my stomach, very quickly, and I usually avoid it.:)
I have to laugh when I see marijuana is on the list. Not really what I'd a call performance enhancing...:p. Might be handy if you played snooker or something requiring a steady hand.
By the way what's gu? I 've never heard of it?
gu= a brand of jell stuff...has the texture of tooth paste, but is full of carbs
Power gel, cliff shots, jog mate, honey stingers, gu...Lots of prands available. they are flavored carbs in a semi-liquid state----just add water and you have INSTANT Sugar BUZZ! You have to conusume them continuously as you work out or you also have sugar crash too! They are really gross, but work well when you are bonking on mile 67 of a century, or mile 14 of a marathon.
Karen
Ah, goo! or energy gel. Yes - familiar with that. I thought maybe it was some kind of pill or potion.
Yes I find those very handy, especially when the 'normal' food's run out and I need some energy. I often put one in my back pocket on shorter rides too, just in case...
I find it mind boggling that you all don't know what doping is! They aren't talking about weird food like sugar paste- It's anabolic steroids, EPO, cocaine, yes, caffeine was one of the first ones regulated and a personal favorite of mine, asthma inhalers are closely monitered- ever noticed how many "asthmatic" Olympic athletes there are? When I fenced we had to pee in the cup even at regional weekend stuff, but everyone did more casual rec drug use then. Don't turn up your nose girls, that was life twenty years ago.
Remember the Festina doping scandal at the Tour five years ago? They got caught, but doping has been a requirement to be able to compete at the pro level of cycling for years. You needed to get jacked up just to make it as a domestique. The methods they use now are more manipulation, such as banking red blood cells and putting them back on board for better reoxygenation. The doping tends to be very inventive though, always a step before the testing. I don't know whats current, but I bet it's way advanced from the hideous junk they used 15 years ago.
The more interesting question- as the biochemistry of training becomes more sophisticated, what's legitimate manipulation and what's doping?
There is an all doping curcuit- it's called pro cycling, the NFL, pro baseball, pro anything. Remember All American Gold Medalist Olympian FloJo? She off the steroid marked features who died suddenly and young in a typical steroid use way?
Now, have I doped? Technically yes- Caffeine, cold meds (ephedra), Combivent (prescribed), few other innocuous things. Pain pills are great for training, but I don't know if I'd ride in a pack on narcotics. Coffee is the only good one. The rest are too unpredictable and can make your heart race. But boy is your head clear!Would I take weird drugs like steroids? No. I would jack up my hemocrit by banking blood though if I was racing at an elite level.
I must admit to going to a regional tournament that was all LSD- very Hunter Thompson, but fun! Not a USFA sanctioned event, but drew a big crowd. All these mellow drugs are fun to play on but lousy for real competition- especially pot. I think they're illegal to keep the wild child athletes in line before the competition.
Most importantly, I'd want to know what the competition was on. A lot of doping brings a trade off that can be exploited. You have to know how to cheat so you can recognize it and handle it.
Lizzy
LOL -- I know what real doping is. ;) Just haven't taken anything much myself. I haven't been cycling long -- but had been bodybuilding for a while before I started cycling. The steroids, asthma medication (clenbuterol), etc. are offered up a lot. I'm just not interested.
The one thing I did take for a while was ephedra, however, my body doesn't tolerate stimulants very well anymore -- other than coffee.