mountain bike fit?

I have been riding road bikes for several years, but today when I was at my favorite LBS I saw the prettiest mountain bike and had to take it for a test ride. The LBS guy adjusted the seat and the height was fine, teach felt good and leg extension felt good, but I had no stand over room at all. The LBS guy said reach was more important than stand over but I was wondering is this true? What if I have to put my foot down fast, I could hurt myself.:eek:
Do clipless mountain bike pedals add height like clipless road bike pedals?
I would appreciate any help you lady's have to offer. Thank you. Jones

I would say that is rubbish! Reach is important but so is standover clearance on a mountain bike (more so than on a road bike) for the reason you describe. My first mountain bike was similar to what you describe seemed to fit well but had no standover clearance, which was fine for bimbling on the road or forestry fire road but not for technical riding. Landing on the top tube is not pleasant, even for a girl!

MTB cleats are recessed into the shoe so will do nothing to add extra clearance.

I'm 5ft 4 and the inital mountain bike frame was 17" with a 22.5" top tube ( I use it for commuting now and am more stretched on it than my real road bike), I now ride a 14 or 15" MTB with a 21.5" top tube that has decent standover, the difference is unbelievable.

If you have been riding road bikes for a long time you are probably used to being fairly stretched out (from your description it sounds like the MTB frame is too big for you), in general the MTB position is more upright (unless your XC racing). As a general rule I tell friends, male and female, who are buying an MTB to get the smallest frame they are comfortable with even if it means running a lot of seatpost out (I usually have about 9" out).

If you look at my Avatar picture you can probably get an idea how much clearance I have on my full-suss mtb, my hardtail is similar.

Ditto everything tattie said. Mtb seatposts are made longer to accomodate the extra length that needs to be out of the frame. A properly sized mtb will have a ton of seatpost sticking out because the top tube will be very low.

Reach on any bike is always more important than standover. Imagine if you can't reach the brakes and shifters properly especially when mountain biking? And consider when you have to push back off the saddle for descent. You need to make sure even in that position, you can properly use the brakes.

One thing to remember when buying a mountain bike sizes are not as exact as a road bike. You need to reach the shifters and brakes properly plus you need to have proper clearance and standover. If you are a tall woman, you still may be on a medium or 17" frame (I'm 5'8" and this is the frame size I ride) in order to assure reach and standover. If shorter than 5'7" you most likely need a small or x-small frame. Dont forget that many manufacturers also make a WSD frame so if your legs are long but torso short, you get a better fit.

Just make sure you ride the bike and change your position while riding to make sure you are comfortable with the reach.

Thanks for all the advice. The bike I am looking at is a wsd Trek 6700. It comes is a 14, 16, and 18. I am 5'6" but I think my legs are short (30" inseam) and my arms are short, plus I'm round, so I feel like the young boys at the bike shop never really believe I ride. I think I road the 16 yesterday but I will try and make it back up to the shop and ride the smaller bike this week and maybe a different brand or two. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks, Jones.

You probably should be on the 14 but if the standover and reach are OK on the 16 give it a try but nothing bigger than that. Mountain bikes are always smaller sized for our bodies than road bikes. It's better to get alittle small than alittle large if you are in between sized. You can then adjust the stem and seat post. And if the WSD seems awkward try also the man's bike. It maybe a better fit. It works better for me. I don't really have a WSD body. If your legs are short, the WSD bike maybe alittle tall for you. It's made for long legs, short upper torso (in other wards taller standover but shorter reach). I know my legs and arms are more equal so I'm better off on a man's bike.

ALSO: different models fit differently because their geometry is different. I know I fit well on Fishers and Specialized but not so on Cannondales and Treks. Also another thing to consider are components. Make sure you get the best components for the money. If the bike is full suspension or at least hard tail, make sure the fork is good, especially if you are carrying alittle weight. Sme WSD mountan bike have lighter weight forks which made not be good for you.

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Originally Posted by Jones

The LBS guy said reach was more important than stand over but I was wondering is this true? What if I have to put my foot down fast, I could hurt myself.:eek:

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I'll preface this by saying I'm not a fitter but I've read a dozen or so articles on fit and I've been though a few 2.5 hour intensive fit sessions (fit cycle for road, fit cycle for mt & aero fitted) with some very reputable/experienced fitters. So I know just enough to be dangerous and I know just enough to realize that I have a lot to learn.

Anyhow...

Q: What is more important to a soccer team? Having a goalie or having a foward?
A: Both....you need both to play the game.

So which is more important standover or reach? I'll have to say both!

If you were to get professionally fitted they would look at many things like cleat position, saddle angle, saddle fore/aft realative to the BB, handlebar/saddle height differential etc. These are all very important factors. To say one is more important than the other is ridiculous because it is how all these factors work together with your 3 points of contact (arse, hands, feet). If the standover height of the bike isn't working, then you should immediately rule that bike out. (You can measure your inseam with your mountain bike shoes on. For example, if your inseam is 32 inches then you will want the standover height to be maybe no more than 30 inches for a mountain bike....give or take depending...for road bikes many people say they like at least 1 inch of standover.).

Reach is very important and your certainly don't want to be in a position that is going to compromise your comfort or your ability to handle the bike and ride fast. But I think standover height is also very important for a mountain biker because the potential to hurt yourself is even greater than riding on the road.

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Originally Posted by Jones

Do clipless mountain bike pedals add height like clipless road bike pedals?
I would appreciate any help you lady's have to offer. Thank you. Jones

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You bet they do (see above). Just like different saddles (and shorts) will change the saddle height and the fore/aft to the handlebar. If you can, make sure you have the mountain shoes that you are going to use when you test ride your potential mountain bikes. And if you plan to spend big $$$ on a bike, then find someone to professionally fit you. It will be worth it in the end. If you just want something entry level, then you might want to read a few articles on fit first so you can make some good decisions.

Good luck,

So how much stand over on a mountain bike? How much is enough and how much is too much?
I know I have a lot of questions but I went to the shop again today and they say the 16" bike would not have enough reach and that the 18" is fine. I did ride another bike and it did have more stand over but I felt really stretched out on it. I am going to try and go again today and ride a few more.
I did have a tough time finding a road bike to fit me, I think my body geometry is just and in between size.
Thanks again for your help.
Jones

I just want to pop in and say thanks for discussing this. I am looking at purchasing my first mountain bike and want to know as much as possible before I step into that shop.

Shasta

Jones,

An 18" frame is HUGE for someone 5' 6. Just for reference all the blokes I ride with ride 17 or 18" frames and they are all 5ft 11 in height or taller. Having been missold a frame that was too large for me and paying the price when riding it offroad I would question why they seem to keen to put you on a fairly big frame :( .
Having a smaller frame helps not only with clearance but also with "chuckability", you need to move your weight around a lot on an MTB and I found this so much easier when I got a frame that wasn't a big old gate.

I've just seen the geometry of the Trek and it is quite short at the 16", but the top tube length jumps when it goes up to 18". The non-wsd trek may actually be a better bet for you as you don't have the body proportions that the WSD is aimed at, I am the same - short legs, long torso and ride "men's" bikes. Its not compulsory to have a WSD bike even if they look better!

Good luck, although if I was you (and knowing what I know now) I'd walk out that LBS and not go back and find somewhere prepared to listen to me. Sit on lots of MTBs if you can until you find something your happy with - this bike buying lark can be exhausting!

Sorry, to answer your question about clearance, I would (pulls a number out of the air) say a minimum of an inch? I have about 2 inches (I think, never really checked it just know it seems good) on my Titus Full-Suss as it has a kink in the top tube to facilitate it. Its a really nice and maneouverable frame.

Jones,
Tattie and Renee are correct. Minimum standover clearance on a mtb is 2 inches. Some people prefer up to 4 inches but that a personal preference.

Stick to your guys on being fitted correctly. Unfortunately, sometimes we have to do that. Good luck!

Just as reference, I ride a Specialized Stumpjumper hardtail which is 17/med. and a Fisher Sugar 3+ which is also medium about 16.5. I'm also 5'8" and both bikes fit me well although I am a tad more stretched out on the Specialized with is OK because of how I use the bike. Both bikes are generic or mens' bikes because I don't have the geometry for a woman's bike. My arms and legs are fairly equal in that I don't have long legs, short torso.

Work on the bikes reach and hopefully standover will come into play. Obviously you must have standover clearance and 2" is a good reference although it depends on the bike's geometry. What you really must be comfortable with is your ability to reach and use the brakes and shifters. If you are laid back on the bike and can't access your brakes, you're screwed.

I would think you should be on a small frame, 14 - 15. I would also check out mens bikes to see if the fit isn't better. OK so the colors aren't as "girly" but sometimes you get a better fork and shock if you opt for the guy bike.

Good luck. Let us know what you buy.

I'm sorry, but no way would I ride a mtbike with less than maybe 8" of clearance. Mtbikes have been built with steeper and steeper angled top tubes over the years because of clearance problems. In a quick dismount, you do not want only 2'' of clearance.

Here I am on the largest of my mtbikes. It is set up more as a freeride ride than an XC and has the least amount of clearance of any of my bikes (maybe 9"??). I'm just sitting back, kind of trackstanding so Veronica can take a pic, but you can see how much clearance there is. Just google around the web and take a look at the bikes the pros ride. Both the reach (cockpit length) and standover are critical.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

http://www.tandemhearts.com/bike/dia...-rockville.jpg

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Here's the same bike from the side (please feel free to ooh and ah over Mathilda's new pink wheels:D ). You can't always put a foot down on the same level as your wheels or the ground may be unstable or you may come off at higher speed than desired. Not to mention, if the bike is too big it's just durn heavy. I am 5'3 3/8" with long arms and legs/short torso so you get an idea of the size.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...s/DSCF0002.jpg

SadieKate,

I was referring to minimum clearance when standing astride the bike not actually sitting on it. My bike is set up similar to yours with about 9 inches of seatpost out. My roadbike only has about 5 inches of seatpost out (on a compact frame) and that worries me.

Those rims are cool and I'm not a pink person!

You're right, Tattiefritter, but 2" would still worry me. I ride the XS Titus Racer-X frame and I have my saddle 27-27.5 inches from the ctr of the crank. We probably ride similar sizes.

Since mtbikes come in such a wide variety of frame designs, I really think it helps to look at how people look on a bike.

I ride an XS Titus MotoLite - absolutely stunning frame! I will be having a social ride tomorrow, I'll pay attention to exactly how much clearance I have then but I have quite short legs anyway.

You're right about how people "look" on a bike, I saw your pictures and thought it was "right" - decent amount of seatpost out and not stretched, easy to throw the bike around. You look like you are in the bike and in control rather than being dragged around by it as a passenger.

The MotoLite is the frame in my avatar picture and looks tiny, if I wasn't a complete numpty I would post a bigger picture of it so you could see but it appears to have disappeared off my PC. :o

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Originally Posted by tattiefritter

SadieKate,

I was referring to minimum clearance when standing astride the bike not actually sitting on it. My bike is set up similar to yours with about 9 inches of seatpost out. My roadbike only has about 5 inches of seatpost out (on a compact frame) and that worries me.

Those rims are cool and I'm not a pink person!

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That's what I meant as well, With feet on ground the clearance should be at least 2 " but more is OK.

I recently bought my first mountain bike, and although nothing is actually uncomfortable, I am beginning to worry that I should have purchased the smaller size. In particular, if you are new to mountain biking, your roadie instincts about proper fit may be very misleading.

I am 5'7 with a ~31.5"-32" inseam (long legs, short torso). The two LBS guys helping me with my purchase disagreed about whether I was a better fit for a 15" or a 17". I went with a 17" WSD Rockhopper, which actually has the reach of the 15" men's model, but the height of a 17" model. At the time I purchased it, I thought the reach was very close (almost too close) and my greater concern was that I might be buying a bike that was too small. (My understanding is that Rockhoppers are known as relatively short reach bikes, in contrast to Gary Fisher and others known for their longer reach). I have 3" of standover clearance and 6.5" of visible seatpost. I am not uncomfortable in any way, but I do have this nagging suspicion that the 15" would be more chuckable and nimble, as others have aptly put it.

PS: I have most often read 3"-6" of standover clearance is ideal, with standover measured by standing astride the bike, lifting it by the seat and bars, and assessing how far from the ground the wheels are.

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Originally Posted by Jones

Thanks for all the advice. The bike I am looking at is a wsd Trek 6700. It comes is a 14, 16, and 18. I am 5'6" but I think my legs are short (30" inseam) and my arms are short, plus I'm round, so I feel like the young boys at the bike shop never really believe I ride. I think I road the 16 yesterday but I will try and make it back up to the shop and ride the smaller bike this week and maybe a different brand or two. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks, Jones.

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I just pulled up the geometry for the Trek 6700 WSD. Is that 30" inseam with shoes or without shoes? The standover heights for that bike are 26.6, 27.9, 29.4 respectively. If your inseam is 30" with shoes then you want to have a standover height of no more than 28". If 30" inseam measurement is without shoes, you might be able to have a slightly larger standover height than 28". Even so...29.4" on the 18" might be too much for you.

As far as the reach is concerned maybe the top tube/stem length was not correct (maybe a longer stem) or you could maybe adjust the saddle height/setback differently or maybe the geometry of the bike is just not for you and you should look at different manufactures or models. Lots to consider!

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Originally Posted by Jones

So how much stand over on a mountain bike? How much is enough and how much is too much?

I know I have a lot of questions but I went to the shop again today and they say the 16" bike would not have enough reach and that the 18" is fine. I did ride another bike and it did have more stand over but I felt really stretched out on it. I am going to try and go again today and ride a few more.
I did have a tough time finding a road bike to fit me, I think my body geometry is just and in between size.
Thanks again for your help.
Jones

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You probably want at least 2" of standover height. Some people like even more that that. It depends on your skill level, riding style, type of terrain or just your personal comfort level. Some of those crazy riders that participate in gravity sports like mountain cross and super D like 4" of standover because they are doing some pretty crazy stuff (taking on huge jumps and drop-offs etc). For me, 2 inches works just fine though.

Try to stick to bikes that have 2 inches of standover, see how you feel when you take a test ride and you will be the best judge if that is going to work or not... if not try something that has 2"+ of standover.

I think I'd walk right out of that bike shop if they are trying to put you on a 18". It sounds like they are trying to take advantage of you just to sell you a bike. I think that the most common mistake people make is buying a frame that is too big for them. So many people that I know have done this, suffered for it and swear that they will never make the same mistake again.

I find that this type of stuff happens a lot to me when I walk in a bike shop. I always get some guy trying to tell me what I need or tell me why or why something is good/bad. I very calmly take control of the situation and tell them what I want/need. If they persist, I'll often change the topic and ask them what kind of racing they do and ask them what bikes they own. (Usually they don't race and don't own very impressive bikes....especially in some of the chain store bike shops and the non-racers tend to back down a bit). I also do my research before I walk in the door so I know what I'm talking about and can ask intelligent questions. Works for me...

Which brand of bike did you feel really stretched out on....what size was it? Maybe we can pull up the geometry sheet and compare it to the Trek that you tested.

Ok, now I am curious. I am 5'11" with an inseam of 36. What size am I looking at?:confused:

I sat on a Trek 820 last night and liked it. No pink or yellow ones though! :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VW Beetle

I recently bought my first mountain bike, and although nothing is actually uncomfortable, I am beginning to worry that I should have purchased the smaller size. In particular, if you are new to mountain biking, your roadie instincts about proper fit may be very misleading.

I am 5'7 with a ~31.5"-32" inseam (long legs, short torso). The two LBS guys helping me with my purchase disagreed about whether I was a better fit for a 15" or a 17". I went with a 17" WSD Rockhopper, which actually has the reach of the 15" men's model, but the height of a 17" model. At the time I purchased it, I thought the reach was very close (almost too close) and my greater concern was that I might be buying a bike that was too small. (My understanding is that Rockhoppers are known as relatively short reach bikes, in contrast to Gary Fisher and others known for their longer reach). I have 3" of standover clearance and 6.5" of visible seatpost. I am not uncomfortable in any way, but I do have this nagging suspicion that the 15" would be more chuckable and nimble, as others have aptly put it.

PS: I have most often read 3"-6" of standover clearance is ideal, with standover measured by standing astride the bike, lifting it by the seat and bars, and assessing how far from the ground the wheels are.

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Sometimes you have to ride the bike awhile to get comfortable on it. You can also change out the stem length (shorten it) and pull the reach closer. I ride the 17" men's Spec. Stump and it fits me fine. I even have fairly short arms and I'm OK. I can't recall if I change out the stem. I might have. The 17 WSD s/b OK. If not, take it back to the shop and ask them to help you adjust the fit.

Now strangely my Fisher has a shorter reach but it is a slightly smaller bike (16.5") so maybe that's why.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tattiefritter

Jones,

I've just seen the geometry of the Trek and it is quite short at the 16", but the top tube length jumps when it goes up to 18". The non-wsd trek may actually be a better bet for you as you don't have the body proportions that the WSD is aimed at, I am the same - short legs, long torso and ride "men's" bikes. Its not compulsory to have a WSD bike even if they look better!

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This is so true! I'm looking at buying a nice full suspension bike for racing purposes. I have it narrowed down to a few bikes. I was looking at the Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Expert WMNS and also the Trek Fuel EX 9 WSD. I spent 2.5+ hours with my fitter yesterday discussing geometry and fit. What we actually found is that my most perfect geometry is with the Trek Fuel EX 9 men's 15.5" bike! The other bikes aren't total rule outs, but on paper, the men's Trek is looking like the best option. No WSD for me.

So certainly look to some of the smaller men's bikes also!

I think it is nice that some companies are doing the WSD thing, they are not always making intellgent design decisions. They make large jumps between some categories (between sizes) and little jumps in others.

This weekend, I'm taking my tape measure and level and I'm heading out to test ride those bikes. I'm going to take over the situation, set up my potential bikes to my fit sheet and I'm going to tell that bossy male bike salesman to back off! I can't wait, it should be fun.

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Originally Posted by shasta

Ok, now I am curious. I am 5'11" with an inseam of 36. What size am I looking at?:confused:

I sat on a Trek 820 last night and liked it. No pink or yellow ones though! :p

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It looks like the Trek 820 comes in a variety of sizes (you can check the website). Just find the hardtail mountain bike section. The 820 will be under the steel frame section. Then click on the geometry headline on top of the picture of the bike. The sizes range from 13-24" and the standover heights range from 23.5 to a whopping 34.3"

Thanks for the information Madisongrrl. I'll look it up.

Measure yourselves up on the following site and see what they say for a bike fit:

www.wrenchscience.com

This system takes into consideration most of the important measurements in a bike fitting, and I think it will give you a good indication of what size bike you should be riding.

OK, I have done all the measurements and I really think I should be riding a smaller bike than I was originally fitted( is that a word?) on. I have enlisted the help of a local ironwoman/extrerra triathlete to come to the bike shop with me. Maybe two women telling them the bike is too bike will make them pay attention. Thanks again for all the help. Jones.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jones

OK, I have done all the measurements and I really think I should be riding a smaller bike than I was originally fitted( is that a word?) on. I have enlisted the help of a local ironwoman/extrerra triathlete to come to the bike shop with me. Maybe two women telling them the bike is too bike will make them pay attention. Thanks again for all the help. Jones.

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Good for you. Don't let those bike shop men push you around!

THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I WON'T SHOP AT A LBS!! I was afraid they'd put me on something (a) I couldn't afford (b) that I couldn't ride comfortably (c) that was too big or too small for me...

I think unfortunately some LBS's only care about profit and sales, not customer fit or comfort... one LBS sold me an Italian Gel saddle that was so uncomfortable I couldn't wait to get it off my bike! Went back to my reliable large "elephant seat" that let me slide back going downhill and was so comfy....:cool:

I am riding a 26 inch women's Mtn bike and raised the stem and the seat and now my reach is comfortable, as well as the saddle. It may not be a perfect fit, but my bottom likes it and I can reach the shifters/brakes just fine now.:D

What I can't do is stop gracefully and turn like a pro...I am still wobbly and scared of how BADDDDD that asphalt and rocks are going to feel when I hit them even going slow....nightmares!!!!:o

Remember when I was young and bold and nothing scared me. Now that I'm 62, everything scares me especially falling on my tuckus and tearing off my skin......achhhhhhh!:eek:

my blog/photos : http://losing-half-of-myself.blogspot.com/

Melinda,

I'm glad that you're taking the initiative and trying to get your weight down to a healthly level. I must say though, that you are wrong about local bike shops. Yes, there are some sales people that are new and are still learning, but there are also some that have been in the business for a long time and would be more than capable of helping you find the right bike for you. I worked at a bike shop for more than three years, and I NEVER sold a bike for the money. If you didn't want to buy a bike from me, so what. I'd still spend an hour helping you out. If you wanted to but a $2000 bike, GREAT! If you were more comfortable buying a $300, even better! It means I helped one more person back onto a bike.

Just because you had a bad experience buying a seat doesn't mean they're all bad. And, personally, I think you did yourself a disservice by going out and buying a $150 Roadmaster. The quality is very low, and you should see the people they have 'assembling' them. For $150 - $200 more, you could have had a much better bike that will be easier to ride and will last longer.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet

Melinda,

I must say though, that you are wrong about local bike shops. Yes, there are some sales people that are new and are still learning, but there are also some that have been in the business for a long time and would be more than capable of helping you find the right bike for you.

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Perhaps you have never been to many of the local bike shops in Madison, WI... There are plenty of employees (at just about every shop) who know very little. The problem is that they don't admit it and try to B.S. you (especially the "alpha" male types....and I always make it a point to call them out). They don't do their homework because many of them don't race bikes (dead give away is if the shop has Sunday hours).

Many of my friends and family are hardcore cyclists who race mountain bikes, road bikes, and time trial bikes on an extremely competitive level. We all get equally annoyed at the level of knowledge by the local bike shops in town. The only shop that I would exclude from this is Cronometro. They are a high end custom shop and are a cut above the rest. So I do most of my business with them.

http://www.cronometro.com/

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Originally Posted by madisongrrl

Perhaps you have never been to many of the local bike shops in Madison, WI...

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lol. You are right, I've never been to Wisconsin. I'm glad you found at least one shop that you can rely on!

i have read this thread up-side-down and sparatic and back thru again and a few thoughts have come to my head i just wanted to share...take them all with a grain of salt or just ignore them completely...

first of all with all the differences of frame type and body sizes there is no one bike that would fit the same height person...inseams vary/reach varies/riding syles vary...

comfort and safety (being able to reach the brakes/being able to scooch back off your seat on drops/not hitting the "uh...um" area in a misfortunate judgement call) all very important

most prominent thought of mine: finding a lbs you trust!!!! and if you can't, finding an individual that is knowledgible to help...but one thing that this site fails at is being able to SEE a person on a bike in order to give that said "knowledgible advice"

we try so hard to help our fellow bike crazed gals out there to find the perfect fit and we are left frustrated by posting our thoughts and hoping the person "gets" what we are saying!!!

i leave with this final thought...for those out there desperately trying to find the "perfect" fit...be patient, don't fork out that $$$$$ unless YOU are comfortable on the bike, test drive, read as much info as you can, ask questions, ask questions, ask questions and never, never let them see you swea....OH NO....that is something else...
never let them sell you something you do not want (comfy with)

*** and in my humble opinion...it would be worth a days drive (maybe more) to be fit by someone who knows what they are doing and are not just trying to make a buck!!!

OK...i am done...who's soapbax did i borrow??? you can have it back now:p

I too have been reading this thread, and lurking, and thinking, and mumbling to myself. I have to put in my 2 cents. It is going to fly in the face of what some of the other members have said, but here goes.

I bought a new fs bike last summer. I tried out about 5 different bikes, at very good bike shops both here in NJ and in CO. Some wsd, some not.

I ended up with a 15.5 Marin. I have very little stand over room, but of all of the bikes I tried, it was the one that was comfortable. My DH and the LBS guy said you could see it as soon as I got on the bike, in my body language. The bike fitters explained that reach and comfort are really more important than stand over room. I ahve to agree.

Maybe it is too big for me technically, but it was the only one that felt right. Have I had a problem? No.

I ride a couple of times a week, and have yet to smack my parts, and yes I have wiped out on numerous occasions.

So what do I know?, Not much, except what felt right for me.
Something to keep in mind.

Ruth