Do not wait to incorporate public transit into your life

Just had a long coffee chat with a friend, who has been long time cyclist and local cycling advocate until a few years ago. She's probably 79 but now having problems with shoulder and can't cycle safely far.
She is noticing for friends in her age bracket and older, who now can no longer drive and are trying to use public transit. She felt it was endless unnecessarily long discussions and too much worry how to plan local transit trip planning when some friends don't live far from transit nor do they have to switch buses.

The lesson here is: Integrate use of public transit into your life NOW when you're still mobile, healthy. Learning to use transit when you're disabled /frail is not the time to learn.

I couldn't agree more! Thanks for the reminder, shootingstar.

Have a good friend who loves her car (14 yrs. old) and enjoys driving. Now the car is problematic..something wrong with internal wiring that's causing a noxious smell. She wasn't happy that she will have buy a better car now rather than later. Yes, she knows all about transit (used to be a commuter cyclist..her route is much further out with 1 long hill). In fact her job is on liveable communities for nearby accessibility to alternative transportation. Right now, her life is complicated probably but most likely driving a car on loan out of necessity related to her job, life, etc. until she replaces her car with a new/used one. She is single and doesn't have children.

At work, a guy and his wife hope to find a bungalow somewhere close to hospital and to heck with transit. She has a mysterious disease that makes her dizzy unexpectedly. They don't have children. His family lives in another province.
Here's what I think but don't plan to say to him: they should find a home that does both: to meet her needs AND also close to transit.

To be so car-dependent due to unwalkable /cycleable routes or no transit, becomes a problem when later one shouldn't be driving at all but not enough personal friends to be driven around. He started to complain to me about car congestion in downtown Vancouver. Vancouver is deliberately changing infrastructure to get more people to use transit, bike or walk instead dealing with more car congestion.

I've decided a long time ago, I can't assume that a friend will be around at MY convenience to drive me around for shopping, appointments. Same for my partner. ..and he has an adult daughter who lives 8 kms away who doesn't have a car but she doesn't visit him often enough. He now has to be careful with his knee alignment but at least parks, services and shops are just 10 min. walk away.

I hear what you are saying, Shooting Star, but I don't know if I could be car free. To really be close enough to food stores and be able to get to my basic medical appointments, I'd need to live in a slightly more urban area. Or, I'd have to adjust my lifestyle even more than I have. I do live walking distance to a large grocery store (1/3 mile), but I hate that store and only go there to run for something I forgot in my weekly shopping. My appointments are normally within a 4-5 mile radius. Totally rideable in nice weather, but not in the winter. I live 2 miles from public transportation, a commuter rail into Cambridge and Boston, not to local places. Unless you are handicapped or elderly, nothing to take me locally.
Yet, I drive way less than any one of my friends. I work 3-4 days a week, 2.3 miles away. From March-November I try to ride there 1-2X a week. I may try walking this summer, but I would need 40-45 minutes of extra time and I would not like that at the end of the day. Everything I do, is within 5-6 miles. My car gets driven about 500 miles a year, as opposed to 10,000. Yes, we do use DH's car for trips, weekends, but it's a hybrid. But, i feel like my world has become very constricted, despite the travel I do. I used to drive all over, not necessarily for work, but it just gets on my nerves and makes me a bit anxious. I don't necessarily like this, but, it's economical. I never zip down to the Cape for a day at the beach, or out to western MA anymore, unless it's for a weekend. I don't even like to drive far for my weekly rides, and some of them (not all) I like, but when I think about it, it's not worth it. I live in a beautiful area to ride. We were just talking about how we could live with one car when we both stop working. I don't know if I'd want to be totally dependent on DH or do so much planning about when I was going out.
I know how to use public transportation, did that when I was 12 years old!
I drove 10 miles to catch a train when I was going to grad school. The commuter rail also went right to where my school was, but the schedule didn't match mine. I'd end up waiting an hour to go home and spending money on dinner. So, after the first year, I spent the $ on the parking garage and could get home in 30 minutes by a combo of driving and a 3 stop train ride. I really got sick of the dirty, packed trains by the end of my program, but it worked. Personally, I think this is the closest to car free I will ever be, and while it's nothing compared to you, it's way more than any of my friends.

I agree with what you are saying, but I suspect in the next 10-20 years if not sooner, transportation as we know it will be very different particularly in urban areas. Even though the automotive industry has stayed pretty much the same the last 100 or so years, it is one of the next areas that will experience some major disruption.

There are a number of things happening in this area:

• Move towards developing fully autonomous self-driving cars by a number of companies

• Uber, Lyft and even BMW, and Tesla considering autonomous ride sharing

• Move from fossil fuels to electric cars particularly as things go more autonomous . Tesla already has cars that will go more than 200 miles on a full charge (and one that can go more than 300).

I expect this all to cause some major disruption in transportation particularly in urban areas and I would think some potential impact for public transportation as well.

Self-driving cars without their own dedicated lane, is darn scary. So we know of cases where some drivers blindly trusted their GPS and ended up in an accident..in a river, into another lane.

People have to remember that programming a car....is done ..by human beings who are supposed to think of every single permutation of movement by other objects around a moving car.... We're so imperfect as human beings to even think of every possible permutation to protect others (cyclists, pedestrians and other vehicles).

I agree that uber offers something. But I'm talking about the ability of no longer able to drive safely at all....no matter if it's an electric car or car share.

Anyway, in my city the municipality is piloting a driverless van between 2 public builidngs beside one another....kinda sad since people can't walk? Wheelchair access is fine..because the entrances are on flat surfaces and gentle slopes. Great for schlepping deliveries.. not sure what since 1 building is a zoo and the other is a science public education building.

In the north, some of the big oil companies were using driverless trucks for hauling materials across a field. Makes sense there.

There will always be auto accidents whether the car is driven by an actual person or even if it is not. And I don't want to sound impersonal or unfeeling when I say that, but I do believe a certain number of accidents will happen regardless of who is driving simply because cars do pose a certain level of danger. And certainly the current state of the art in autonomous driving is not at complete autonomy (level 5). So yeah I wouldn't completely trust it yet either.

Not long ago, there was a well publicized tragic accident involving a Tesla car that the NHTSA got involved in and investigated. In their report they mention that crash rates have dropped almost 40% since the introduction of their autopilot. As the state of the art in self driving cars continues to get better, I expect it will continue to get safer.

There is a lot of money going into this right now, and I think it is going to happen quicker than most people realize.

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Originally Posted by Sylvia

I suspect in the next 10-20 years if not sooner, transportation as we know it will be very different particularly in urban areas. Even though the automotive industry has stayed pretty much the same the last 100 or so years, it is one of the next areas that will experience some major disruption.

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+1

Lots of research and now application of infrared light to detect the shape of objects and there range around a car no matter the light or weather. We are just at the beginnings of the technology and it will get much better in a shorter rather than longer time. The development of small solid state sensors is being done now. That will bring the price down and make it more affordable for automakers/buyers and make it easy to place the sensors inconspicuously around a car. It’s a different mindset for people especially those who enjoy driving a car. I think it will get more focused on the positives of helping to eliminate the problems with drivers using alcohol/drugs, speeding, aggressive driving, over-compensation, inexperience, slow reaction time, inattentiveness, and ignoring road conditions etc. Once optimized it will save lives and lessen accidents. Personally I look forward to the progress.

Agreed on the importance of exploring different types of alternative transportation. With my 2 upcoming surgeries - and the aftermath of the second one will mean I won't be able to drive for some time - next week I'm parking my car from Monday - Saturday. I already know how to take transit to work, but how to do other things, not so much. Indianapolis is notorious for our lengthy bus headways. While we're working to change that, let's just say I don't live along a route with desirable headways. Better to figure out the logistics now while I've leisure to do so.

+1 on having a backup plan or an alternative. And this applies not just to cars but to all aspect of life. It's self evident.

And to Catrin, I wish you well on your upcoming surgeries. Have you considered ways of managing surgery pain so that you don't have to be totally dependent on pills? Self-hypnosis and meditation will help you with pain management. google search on "training your body to ignore pain" I've shattered both of my clavicles (collar bone) and each time, I only took the pain pill at the hospital. Meditation/self hypnosis made it tolerable without any pills.

As for autonomous cars...

1. Looks like I will be ordering Tesla model 3. Model S is way too big and don't care for model X, besides its too expensive.
2. total number of EV sold in 2016 in California alone? was around 15,000 vehicles. Tesla is scheduled to deliver over 500,000 by end of 2018 just for model 3. And it will have level 2 autonomous driving and maybe level 3.
3. Autonomous cars, its coming sooner than you might think. Much of the autonomous ability comes from AI (artificial intelligence). Tesla model S is sporting a supercomputer from NVIDIA. It's said to be equivalent to 150 macbooks. Tesla thinks it has enough computing power to do level 5 while Nvidia thinks its only good to level 4 autonomous driving and Nvidia thinks it needs two of these to do level 5 autonomous driving. Do we still need a driver license at that point? I think I'll just enjoy the ride from the back seat and enjoy the finer things in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_pGT8Q_tjk
4. gasoline/diesel engine cars will be phasing out over next twenty years. New battery technology such as solid state glass battery patented by Prof Goodenough (this is real) who also happens to be father of Lithium Ion battery. The new battery will be 1/5 to 1/10 the size of Lithium Ion battery. If it makes it to mass market, then model S can have a range of 1250 miles per charge to over 2000 miles per charge. Still want to drive gas/diesel powered car?
5. Tesla, Nikola, Mercedes are testing out fully autonomous EV semi-truck NOW!! Okay Nikola is hydrogen-electric hybrid with 1000+ mile range.
6. If you think autonomous driving is less capable than a human being, then you might want to know that US Airforce tested out a AI piloted fighter plane in simulated dog fight. It won every engagement against an aerial dog fight instructor-pilot. It even managed to beat human flying in less capable jet. yes this is in past tense. I think managing a car is far easier... me thinketh.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

total number of EV sold in 2016 in California alone? was around 15,000 vehicles.

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I assume you mean that is Tesla’s (actually17,000+) BEV share of the 70,000+ PEV’s sold in Ca last year (1/4 million in the last 6 years).

The advantage here is California’s developing of a good infrastructure for them, building the largest network of nonresidential charging stations in the nation, the ongoing building of a green electrical grid, car pool lane access, free city parking in my area and others, state rebates etc. I feel blessed to live in a state with the political will and a strong people/business willingness to bear the beginning costs to put social constraints on the Ayn Rand style capitalism that can do harm to the very earth that helps to sustain us.


One reason 48 of the condominium owners in my building have at least one PEV is our HOA at no cost because of California grants/rebates installed (or just wired for) the chargers for each units 2 parking spaces for those who wanted them. Most, like me, had at least the wiring done for the resale value of our condominiums. If we stay in the U.S. we’ll go one BEV, probably Tesla, next year. For just urban areas like where we live there is no real need for a 2/300 mile range though. The buying market here could easily support a 75-100 mile range which opens this market to more car makers.

This discussion scares me. Self driving cars sounds dystopian to me! Our condo neighbor has an EV. He states it really does not have a lot of mileage range. However, I like to call this guy the cellar dweller, because I rarely see him come out of his home, so it probably doesn't matter. His partner has a hybrid and they use that a lot more.
My DH would probably get an EV when he retires; the plan is that I will get the hybrid Rav 4 as a hand me down and he will get something cheaper; I was pissed when he bought this car, as it's the only car I had considered as my next car. I don't mind taking his hand me down, but I do not like the cars he is talking about for himself. Oh well, it will be 2-3 years. I always say I don't care about cars, but I've had 2 German cars since 2003 and I have become kind of used to the luxury factor. Since I rarely drive, it's a moot point.

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Originally Posted by rebeccaC

I assume you mean that is Tesla’s (actually17,000+) BEV share of the 70,000+ PEV’s sold in Ca last year (1/4 million in the last 6 years).

The advantage here is California’s developing of a good infrastructure for them, building the largest network of nonresidential charging stations in the nation, the ongoing building of a green electrical grid, car pool lane access, free city parking in my area and others, state rebates etc. I feel blessed to live in a state with the political will and a strong people/business willingness to bear the beginning costs to put social constraints on the Ayn Rand style capitalism that can do harm to the very earth that helps to sustain us.


One reason 48 of the condominium owners in my building have at least one PEV is our HOA at no cost because of California grants/rebates installed (or just wired for) the chargers for each units 2 parking spaces for those who wanted them. Most, like me, had at least the wiring done for the resale value of our condominiums. If we stay in the U.S. we’ll go one BEV, probably Tesla, next year. For just urban areas like where we live there is no real need for a 2/300 mile range though. The buying market here could easily support a 75-100 mile range which opens this market to more car makers.

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I don't see how an EV car would work for me without major changes. I can only afford to have one car, which means I need it for shorter distances (work and running errands) as well as longer trips such as the 300 miles I drive to visit family. More importantly, there's no place for me to recharge the battery. I live on the second floor in an apartment that does not have reserved parking. Sometimes I park near my building, sometimes farther away, depending on what spaces are empty when I get home. In order to charge a car I would have to run a very very very long extension cord out my window.

As for mass transit, I used to use it all the time but since I moved to the DC area it has not been a practical mode of transportation. Sometimes I will take Metro (the subway system) but it rarely goes where I need it to go and it is not reliable due to an abysmal history of deferred maintenance.

I actually enjoy driving most of the time. I don't know what I would do if I had to use a self-driving car -- I can't read in a moving car and would be bored looking out the window at the same scenery every day. To me the biggest problem is a lack of alternative ways to get to and from my office. The area where I work is not accessible with mass transit -- it was built to be a car-centric suburb. It is too far to bike to work and there is no safe route, thanks to too much traffic on the roads and too many assaults on the trails.

I gave up my driver's license when I was around 21 yrs. I simply was not comfortable driving fast on highways. It took me extra lessons and 2 attempt to pass testing for my driver's license.
I know a woman who got her driver's license when in her 30's. She is not comfortable driving on highways, etc. She told me. She shouldn't have a driver's license. I contrast her to the friend in my lst comment that started this topic thread: a confident driver parks with ease, but she herself doesn't speed and comments on other drivers that speed pass us on the road. We are always amazed why on earth people have to speed, deeking in and out. What for? Are they EMS responding to an emergency, etc.? She works for the Transportation Dept. and a job directly on liveable streets as it relates to transportation planning, design. This includes increasing pedestrian walkability, safety. Cycling is covered by other employees.

https://cyclewriteblog.wordpress.com...eighbourhoods/ I don't have children and can't plan my life going forward, expecting someone drive me around on my convenience. So for the past...35 years I've lived within 15 min. of transit, shops, core services, a park....living close to bike routes, only came into my horizon in last 25 years. So cost of taxi will be abit cheaper since I won't have to go far....when mobility much later gets difficult.

I only trust driverless cars in their own lanes. Vancouver has had driverless overhead light transit rail for past 15 years and more.. started with Sky Train. These trains run every 5 min. at peak hrs...and less during off-loads. There's no one sitting at the front of the train. I don't worry because it runs on its own dedicated track either elevated or underground.

By the way, car-share (Car to Go) is quite popular in our prairie city. I think there is a fleet of 400 cars all over the city. There is a 2nd firm that will offer their service.

Ny- I can appreciate inaccessible workplaces. I worked at construction site out in the suburbs for 3 years. I lived downtown: https://thirdwavecyclingblog.wordpre...ed-work-areas/

I don't regret the decisions I've made. It is rather interesting since car-bound folks who don't experience cycling believe my life is less richer for not being flexible enough whenever and wherever. Yes and no.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

I don't see how an EV car would work for me without major changes.

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NY…In some cities it is more difficult when you don’t have good funding, planning and infrastructure. Some areas just have better support for mass transit and electric cars, which is important in establishing its efficiency. Our mass transit has some problems….just one being end-point to home for many, especially those using light rail. Lyft/Uber shuttles/ride sharing (and bike share for some) are being integrated into it here though. Personal EV’s can work into it easily with charging stations at Metro link stations, a public self-driving system would be even easier. For EV use China and Europe, with what happened today to the Paris Climate Accord, perhaps are going to be the best leaders for awhile….Norway has integrated it with good planning and is and will be a good model for others to study, especially with the pubic awareness/support issues. Using green energy, Norway’s being Hydro, is another big help in the awareness process.

The east coast has been doing work on EV infrastructure for a few years now but nowhere near what we’ve been doing on the west coast. The midwest and areas where electricity tends to come from coal just makes it less environmentally beneficial. The south, well, is the south…….

The Wa/Or/Ca West Coast Green Highway project has opened the ability to drive the entire length of the west coast with an Ev. Rapid charging stations now at and with more being established at places like hotels, restaurants etc. etc. and with more also being solar powered in some area’s, has the beginnings of a well thought out support system.

How can someone not want a environment emision friendly car with accident avoidance benefits and paint with nano-particles that helps to charge it’s energy system :)

safe summer rides for you !!!!!!!!

Shootingstar…..I’ve been using mass transit more the last year especially the last few months. I can get to a light rail station with a reasonable walk. That can take me to a number of different places that I enjoy walking and photographing. I would prefer bicycling to them or take my bike on the train like a few times before but walking is just more of my exercise for a while. I’m just open to the experience even with its minor problems and actually see that method of transportation as a positive adventure. No bike also makes it easier to Uber/Lyft home when I need to.:)
eta...a good friend who lives in San Francisco does a commute from her place downtown on a wifi equipped Caltrain to Menlo Park and a quick shuttle directly to her office...a 40 minute express train ride leaving every 30 minutes both ways

I haven't lived in a household with a car for nearly last 35 yrs. I'm 58.

Have summarized what it's been like here. So I've chosen to live near transit, core services, shops, etc.
Just last weekend we rented a car for 2 days after we took a bus for 170 km. out of town to get to next destinations of 300 km. That's probably going to be the only time we're renting a car for this whole year.

Hi shootingstar,

It's amazing how much you are saving by not having or owning your own car. I think I've given you a rough figure of the savings. One Tesla P85D owner said he tracked the total cost of ownership after one year at somewhere around $17K or so. Recharging of battery to insurance, to monthly payment with interest etc. Granted its not your usual econo box. so after 35 years that adds up to mighty big sum of money!!

I also found out why my friend's Tesla cost over $30,000 to repair the damage to passenger side rear door and rear quarter panel. Regular steel bodied car would have cost somewhere around $3,000-$6,000 for luxury sedan (me think). It was because the repair can only be made at Tesla approved repair shop. They are the only ones who can get the necessary replacement aluminum body parts and sensors from Tesla. There is no third party source.

I'm really hating to drive. Men seems to think its a race course out there. What is the point of having a speed limit when they completely ignore it and drive 10-20-30MPH over the limit. Want to make unsafe and illegal pass since I'm going at the speed limit...And when they see that its a Asian woman driving a car, they get even angrier! I can't wait for level 5 autopilot. Then what are these gorillas going to do? Some of the younger women are worse! I wish I didn't have to depend on a car...

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

Hi shootingstar,

It's amazing how much you are saving by not having or owning your own car. I think I've given you a rough figure of the savings. One Tesla P85D owner said he tracked the total cost of ownership after one year at somewhere around $17K or so. Recharging of battery to insurance, to monthly payment with interest etc. Granted its not your usual econo box. so after 35 years that adds up to mighty big sum of money!!

I also found out why my friend's Tesla cost over $30,000 to repair the damage to passenger side rear door and rear quarter panel. Regular steel bodied car would have cost somewhere around $3,000-$6,000 for luxury sedan (me think). It was because the repair can only be made at Tesla approved repair shop. They are the only ones who can get the necessary replacement aluminum body parts and sensors from Tesla. There is no third party source.

I'm really hating to drive. Men seems to think its a race course out there. What is the point of having a speed limit when they completely ignore it and drive 10-20-30MPH over the limit. Want to make unsafe and illegal pass since I'm going at the speed limit...And when they see that its a Asian woman driving a car, they get even angrier! I can't wait for level 5 autopilot. Then what are these gorillas going to do? Some of the younger women are worse! I wish I didn't have to depend on a car...

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Hopefully e-cars will have 1-2 support competitors for repair jobs to bring down the price. It might take time. Right now, our city is surveying citizens about e-cars. So novel..
I have no trust about autonomous cars in our area....lots of people here drive pickup trucks that guzzle a lot of gas. Do I think people will try to game/tinker with an autonomous car. Sure, why not, if they're smart enough one day.

As for the Asian-face woman driver :) , I would LOVE to see my friend step out of her car to educate speeding drivers and see their facial reactions..: she works for the municipal transportation planning dept. The very dept. that's working on street calming, more sidewalks, more infrastructure for safety of pedestrians and cyclists. And she is Canadian-born Asian (Chinese). Every single car ride I'm in the car with her, we see speeding drivers going over the speed on city roads. We're not travelling on the highways.

As I said, at beginning of this whole thread, it has been a former cycling advocate, long distance commuter who at 79 now is bored with her friends in her age group spiralling down in petty discussions over short transit rides (which she privately finds amusing and bizarre) ...only because they've never had to restructure their life around transit and walking. Now they can't drive... Let's not be a bunch of elderly grumps incapable of restructuring our lives by making these adjustments .now.