1st century (maybe), new roadie on a budget

Hello all,

I've been lurking for a couple of weeks now. I owe you all my sincere thanks for all of the wonderful information I've picked up here already, and I hope I am not committed a newbie faux pas by jumping right in with a request for advice.

I have never been a serious cyclist, but I am getting back into it this year. I recently signed up for a century ride in September, so I'd better get back into it soon! I need a new bike, and my budget is about 1,000. (Which came first, me figuring out my budget or learning the price of most entry-level road bikes...:)

I have just started by testing Specialized road bikes. The first one I tried was the Dolce. I had never really ridden a road bike, and it. was. awesome! I did notice my knees were really close to my arms as I was pedaling - not uncomfortable during my test ride, but I did feel a little cramped. Next I tried a Ruby, and fell in love, unfortunately, since it's twice my budget. Maybe it's just sales hype, but I thought the "relaxed geometry" worked well for me. Knees were still fairly close to arms when pedaling, though. Then I tried the same Dolce again with the seat raised a little bit and it felt less cramped. When I say cramped I guess that implies uncomfortable, but it wasn't, it was just weird - is this just me getting used to a road bike? When I asked the salesperson he thought my reaction was normal for someone getting used to a road bike, but he did decide I needed the seat raised. I guess I'd love to hear from you all if this sounds normal.

I am 5'10" with long legs in proportion to my torso, so even though I'm not petite, I thought WSD would be the way to go for me. Maybe I need to try some men's bikes? The salesperson measured me as needing the 57 cm frame for Specialized. I am also going to try the Trek Lexa next, which from what I've heard, is quite "relaxed."

Recommendations or thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

I'm 5'7" with long legs and arms and a short torso, and prefer men's bikes because they tend to be 'stiffer' and have more power transfer (so less sluggish). In most brands, the max size women's bike is around a 54, which fits me. Specialized is unusual in that they have a 57 in womens, seems like Trek has larger women's bikes, too. At 5'10", my default choice would be a men's, with occasional women's if they happen to fit and had other qualities I liked.

Was the bike you tested a 54 or a 57?

The truth is, there is little difference in geometry between men's and womens when you factor in stack (overall height of the front end), reach (arm length/arm room) horizontal top tube (cockpit length, more or less) and head tube angle (which is a function of the others, or maybe vice versa). Maybe an equivalent mens version is perhaps a centimeter longer, but the stem length (thing that attaches the bars to the bike) can be changed to accommodate small differences in size. Depending on a particular bike's geometry, a mens bike may actually be a little smaller, rather than the womens. Geometries are not standard between brands, models within brands, or even in the same model, as they change from year to year.

A men's Secteur is definitely worth trying to give yourself more options.

Reach: this number basically denotes arm room. If you have long arms, too, (like me), then you might need a bike with a longer reach to allow them to fit. In fact, it sounded from your description that the reach was too short, but if it was a size 54, then the entire bike was too small, so not sure.

Verdict. At your height, there are a lot of options. Don't limit yourself to women's.

Also, look into a Giant Defy, as well. They are available at a range of prices, starting at less than 700 dollars.

Another consideration: it is likely you will eventually decide to upgrade to a more expensive bike, or maybe just a more aggressive bike (suitable for someone who has been riding for a few years). At that point, you may decide to sell. Men's bikes are easier to sell than women's and tend to be worth more money on the used market. Especially one for a 5'10" rider. If you get a good deal on whatever bike you buy, it is possible to get a good return. And speaking of, keep all original parts, that way, any upgrades you make you can keep and transfer to a new future bike, and put the original stock (cheap) parts on the old bike to sell. JMTC.

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Thanks very much Muireen! That is great advice (seriously, you deserve a commission from my eventual bike purchase!). Both the Dolce and the Ruby I tested were 57s. Yeah, I thought the WSD would be the best fit for me, but you are right, I do have longer arms as well, so I definitely be sure to try some men's bikes, too. One other thing - I also felt more comfortable on the bikes with my hands on top or near the shifters, as opposed to on the drops - but I chalked that up to being used to a flat bar, but maybe that is a reach issue as well. I am definitely going to try the Men's Secteur for sure when I go back to try the Dolces this weekend, and look at some men's entry level Trek's as well.

I have also got the impression that Felt makes good bikes with great components for the $, so I'll try those as well (I'd been thinking the women's would be too small of me). I had ruled out Cannondale, because of the lack of women's selection around here, but I might have an easier time finding men's to test. I'm in WI, so Trek tends to rule at most of my LBSs - but I am also lucky to have a lot of choice of where to buy. As for the Defy, I want to try everything, so I will, but the looks just don't grab me. But then, I thought the Ruby was kind of ugly until I rode it.

And, you are right on about upgrading - part of me wants to find the cheapest road bike possible or even just get a new hybrid for the summer so I can get a better bike in the future. I was thinking I would try to get at least Sora components for this first purchase, but maybe I wouldn't notice much difference between Claris and Sora?

Thanks so much for your help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

The truth is, there is little difference in geometry between men's and womens when you factor in stack (overall height of the front end), reach (arm length/arm room) horizontal top tube (cockpit length, more or less) and head tube angle (which is a function of the others, or maybe vice versa).

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This. I bought a Domane when they still had men's and women's version (now I think the Silque has replaced the WSD version of the Domane). I was fitted as needing a 56 cm. The bike guy and I went over the differences in geometry between the men's and women's version (at least at the 56 cm, he said it might have been different in the smaller sizes) were:

(1) Color. I liked the men's color anyway;
(2) Delivery Date. I ordered in July and received the men's version in September. I was told that the delivery dates for the women's versions were unknown, estimated sometime the next spring (it was a new model launch and I think they simply didn't know about demand); and
(3) Different saddles. It was worth buying a new saddle to get my new and exciting bike a lot earlier.

Lately I've been looking at the Ruby/Rubaix and in the larger sizes there were differences, but not significant (besides I think the Rubaix is available in 54cm and 56 cm, whereas the Ruby goes from 54 cm to 57 cm). I haven't pulled the trigger on that yet though :-)

Hi, I also replied earlier this morning but am waiting for an admin to approve my post - maybe it was because I had a quote in it? Anyway, maybe this one won't be posted right away, either, I just wanted to let everyone know that I am reading and appreciating all of the suggestions - especially because I know a lot of what I am asking is not new to you.

A friend of mine has done a 300 mile 4 day charity ride for the last six summers and is doing her seventh this year - she has done each and every one on a hybrid. So I started my shopping thinking I'd look at both, but after starting to test road bikes I don't think a hybrid would make me happy now. They brought out a Vita when I tried the Dolce and the Ruby, and I didn't even bother with it after testing the road bikes. I do think I am going to have to see if I can take a longer ride on some road bikes before I make a purchase instead of 5-10 minute tests. It just feels so different from a hybrid that much of this is hard for me to judge, I think. I do know that I was awfully reluctant to leave the Dolce and the Ruby behind - I want a road bike NOW! :)

It sure does sound like you get a lot more bike for your money with the Giants, and so I am no longer ruling those out. My ole hybrid is a 12 year old basic Giant Cypress and it's been good to me, though I have not been so good to it. That Tiagra disc model looks like a really great deal! I'm not sure I'd go up to 1200 for disc brakes, because I know I will want some basic accessories as the summer goes on (cheap computer, bottle holder, gloves, bento, etc.) and quite possibly a different saddle and/or different bike shorts. Luckily I already have a good helmet, good padded shorts and some technical running shirts I can use in place of a jersey. But it certainly looks like it is worth considering.

If I do end up with lower end components (Sora or lower), do you think they will get me through the summer?

Also, Muirenn, in case my earlier response to you doesn't get posted, thanks for the smart advice, especially about considering men's bikes as well! I did test 57 cm in both the Dolce and Ruby bikes. My torso is not that long for my height, but you are right on - I do have long arms.

My advice would be to test ride as many bikes as possible. I am 5'9". I started with a men's 58 KHS entry level bike that fit really well. I rode it comfortably for about 6 years before upgrading to a Trek Domane WSD 4.5 with a 54cm frame that fits perfectly. I think I test rode at least 20 bikes before selecting the Domane. What I learned was every manufacturers geometry is a bit different and you really can't go by size or men's vs women's. You need to experiment and see what is most comfortable.

Had a nice answer to your post, this morning, Minx and then our local server went belly up before I could finish. Guess it's all part of the game with computers.

You are right to jump in, now. That gives you all summer to work up to that century in September. That's important with being new to road bikes. It takes time for your body to adapt to that road bike riding position, but it is well worth it. It's still the most efficient for putting in the miles. Just learning all the ways you cause drop bars is an education. :)

Is a WSD right for every gal? Hardly. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It's been a blessing for me because of my proportions. I'm just a touch under 5'10", but it's mostly legs. I have a short torso average length arms. My perfect frame size is actually a 55cm, but those are few and far, between. That usually puts me in a 56cm to get the right seat tube height and crank arm length.

The problem for me with men's 56cm frames is the reach - distance from the seat to the handlebars - because a standard 56cm has too long a top tube and comes from the factory with too long a handlebar stem. Having too long a reach bows my back and that is a guarantee of back pain and discomfort on long rides. My usual fix is to go a shorter handlebar stem, but that can sometimes change the handling and not always for the good.

Along came my Trek WSD Domane 56cm and, for the first time in my life, a bike that fits with no modifications, other than adjusting seat height. can't say exactly why, but it fits like the bike was made just for me. The Domane is also what we call an endurance class road bike, with a long wheelbase and relaxed geometry. It really is a bike I can ride all day. The Domane will be out of your price range, new, but you might be able to find a used one.

But gals come in all sizes and proportions, so the right men's bike may actually be a better fit in many cases. How to know what's right for you? Spend some time with a pro that really knows about bike fit, specifically a pro that knows proper fit with road bikes. Find a pro shop and ask for the resident "roadie". Most bikes shops have pros that are either roadies or mountain bike gurus. Since fit on a road bike can be so subtle, taking to someone who lives and breathes road bikes is a big plus. They'll also have better advice on accessories and so on.

You touched on one of the biggies for bicycling health and efficiency, namely, proper seat height. Be religious about it. I often tweak the height on all day rides, as needed. Always carry a wrench and mark that seat post. Sometimes a half inch can make all the difference. Too low a height and you risk blowing out your knees and having back problems. Too high, and you lose power and put too much strain on your feet.

As for components, there was a time when I would settle for nothing under 105, but the new Tiagra is probably as good as the 105 group back in the old days. Should last you a long time. Anything less and you start to see issues with shifting and durability. The good news is there should be some Tiagra equipped bikes in your price range. Yes, you can switch out to a higher level group set, down the road, but that costs big bucks. You're dollars ahead to get something decent when you buy the bike.

In your price range, you can get any material you want in a bike frame as long as it is aluminum. :) That's not at all a bad thing. I did my share of centuries on aluminum bikes. Also agree that Giant gets you a lot of bike for the money.

Hope this helps.

And, welcome to the forum.

Thanks, NW Gal! I am also from Wisconsin, originally northern but live in the southern half now - Trek rules our town! I did some more testing tonight. First I went to the Trek store and tried out a 56 cm Lexa C. It might be my favorite bike I've tried so far, maybe even more than the Ruby, but the person I was working with felt that I needed a 58 (and therefore, a men's, since they don't go up past 56). I didn't get to try a men's equivalent because they had to put one together in a 58, but they'll call when it's ready, by Monday at the latest. I did not feel that the Lexa was too small for me at all, but that may be because I felt less cramped than I did on the Dolce. Honestly, it felt great to me...but I don't want to end up with a bike that's too small for me. The guy at Trek didn't really do much in the way of measuring me, so I may also try a Lexa again and get a second opinion. Nice young guy, but seemed a little disbelieving that I really wanted a road bike with drop handlebars. He seemed fairly new.

Right after that, I was very close to the shop where they sell Specialized, so I stopped in, because I wanted to try the Dolce again immediately after the Lexa, and sure enough, the fit was cramped as I remembered, even with the seat properly adjusted. I explained what was going on with the "cramped feeling" and the guy went back to the computer to look at all my measurements and said that he felt I had the right size, but that a men's might give me a little more room. I tried the Diverge in a 58. It felt good to stretch a bit, but it also felt big and a little unwieldy. The handlebars were really wide and I think that would bug me between the shoulder blades pretty quickly. Still was happiest on the too-small Lexa and on the Ruby.

The Secteur has been discontinued, but I could order one from another location in a 58 for 799. Supposedly the Secteur is much like the Ruby/Roubaix? Otherwise, not too many options in my price range from Specialized. I do like this shop a lot, so I'm not ruling out ordering a Secteur (which would ship free to the store and is returnable).

Anyway, lots more bikes to test and more shops to visit this weekend! I would love to find a bike in the next few days, but I won't buy until I'm sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

Any of the components will be fine. Everyone always says buy the best you can afford. Definitely avoid over-spending. It's too bad they don't have a rim-brake Tiagra model. That would be a better price. You might try to find a model with Tiagra within budget. Maybe one on sale. (I always find the bike I want, for the price I want. So far, always discounted). But, again, entry level components exist for a reason. There is no problem with them at all.

Another possibility to try is the Jamis Ventura.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/venturacomp.html

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That is a lovely bike! Unfortunately, the nearest shop where they sell it is over an hour away. Depending on how this weekend goes, maybe I'll have to travel!

Whew! 58cm? I have a long 32" inseam and that size frame would give me some serious stand over issues, as in pull my foot off the pedal and drop it to the ground in a quick stop. Try it and see, though. Only way to know for sure.

Yeah, I'm something of a Trekie, too, though not even close to exclusively so. Have had so many good bikes from other brands that I'd never go Trek, only. Still, three out of our six bikes are Treks. :)

Yes, Sora will get you through the summer. In fact, just about any group will. The problem comes down the road when you want something better (usually after you've ridden something better :)) or the cheap group gives out. Then it gets VERY expensive to change out to higher components. (Ask me how I know.) It's always more cost effective to buy good components when you buy the bike, rather than upgrade, later. You don't have to get crazy and buy the best. After a point, you are paying for smoother and faster shifting, but not necessarily better reliability. As I said, a good midline group like Tiagra will keep you rolling for a long, long time and get you decent shifting.

Now, I apologize if I sound like a component snob. I don't mean to be. For sure, not everyone needs to spend the money on good components. Those of us who ride a lot, though, know the difference. Then, too, a bicycle has been my sole means of transportation at several times in my life, riding in all kinds of weather (even winter in the snow), so any breakdowns or failures were pretty big deals. I really couldn't afford to go cheap on my bikes at those times. That kind of experience has left it's mark on me, so please don't anyone be offended about me being a bit picky on this issue. I promise not to be pushy about it, okay? Again, the last thing I want is to offend, anyone.

NW gal, no offense here :). I am the first person to admit that I care more about color than components - and that maybe that isn't the smartest way to buy a bike!
My standing inseam is 33.5 or 34 inches without shoes.

I just got back from testing a couple of more bikes this morning - would have liked to test more but the rain and wind were getting to me. I was dressed for the cool weather, but not the rain. Besides getting wet, it was a good day to test because I had the wind at my back one way and was riding straight into the rain and wind on the way back.

So, this was a third shop where both my partner and I have got bikes, parts and repairs before. Worked with a very low key and helpful sales guy we remembered working with and liking in the past, and he was quite convinced I needed a 58 as well. Sad that the Lexa is ruled out for me, but I trusted this guy who took the time to measure me and look at how I sat on the bikes more carefully, so now at least I know. I tried two men's bikes in 58:

1. A previous year's model Felt Z85 with upgraded components to 105, on sale for 1299, said he could go down to 1200. Gray and white with some red.
2. Trek 1.2, not on sale for 969. (They also had a 1.1, but I'm not that fond of red, which is the only color the current 1.1 model comes in, apparently, so I opted to try 1.2 in black with orange). Sora components.

One additional development is that I have a big birthday coming up later this year, and so my partner has given me the green light to spend a little more since we've decided this bike will be my present. :). I still don't want to overbuy for my first bike, though, as Muirenn advised. I'm still thinking 1200-1300 as the upper limit, but that means the Felt is an option, as is the Giant with disc brakes if I can find one to try.

First off, I liked both of these bikes much more than the Specialized Diverge, and I think they were both a great fit. I rode the Felt first, and really liked it, though I noticed I was already feeling the need to change my position on the handlebars a lot to get comfy on my 10 minute ride. Shifting and breaking were both great, even in the rain. Then I rode the Trek, and I didn't really notice too much loss of quality with the Sora components, though I didn't get a chance to try hills. Breaking was a little less smooth in the rain, but nothing I was worried about. But I felt even more comfortable on the Trek then I did on the Felt. The sales guy said that he thought they should be very similar, but that the head tube on the Trek is angled slightly differently so that might account for some of the difference for me. My understanding is that the Felt is a pretty good deal, no? I am going to try them both again when I am not battling wind and rain and can take a longer spin.

Neither of these bikes is exactly my ideal looks wise. I won't let that stop me from a purchase, but I don't care much for black or red. I love grey, navy, almost any shade of blue or purple, and white.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far! I hope everyone is having drier weather than me and out doing some riding!

Man, Muirenn, you are all leg! I'll be a gorilla with you. Instead of Gorillas in the Mist, we can be Gorillas from the Midwest. :) It's really nice to get advice from another woman with a long inseam. I'm not sure about my own femur length, but what is seat post offset?

What you said about the Diverge makes sense. It just felt off, so that one is off my list for sure. Maybe that's why the handlebars seemed so big and clumsy to me, even though they were the same size as other 58s I've tried?

I would say, so far, my top choice fit is the Trek 1.2 in a 58, but the Felt Z85 in a 58 is very close - close enough that I would definitely them both again before choosing between the two. I also thought the Specialized Ruby in a 57 felt good, but again, I'd need to try it again.

Besides trying out Cannondale and Giant, I'm also wondering if I should try a Trek Domane 2.0, now that I've expanded my budget a bit. I like the way it looks - grey with some colorful detailing, but it also sounds like it has potential.

Thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Minx

NW gal, no offense here :). I am the first person to admit that I care more about color than components - and that maybe that isn't the smartest way to buy a bike!
My standing inseam is 33.5 or 34 inches without shoes.

I just got back from testing a couple of more bikes this morning - would have liked to test more but the rain and wind were getting to me. I was dressed for the cool weather, but not the rain. Besides getting wet, it was a good day to test because I had the wind at my back one way and was riding straight into the rain and wind on the way back.

So, this was a third shop where both my partner and I have got bikes, parts and repairs before. Worked with a very low key and helpful sales guy we remembered working with and liking in the past, and he was quite convinced I needed a 58 as well. Sad that the Lexa is ruled out for me, but I trusted this guy who took the time to measure me and look at how I sat on the bikes more carefully, so now at least I know. I tried two men's bikes in 58:

1. A previous year's model Felt Z85 with upgraded components to 105, on sale for 1299, said he could go down to 1200. Gray and white with some red.
2. Trek 1.2, not on sale for 969. (They also had a 1.1, but I'm not that fond of red, which is the only color the current 1.1 model comes in, apparently, so I opted to try 1.2 in black with orange). Sora components.

One additional development is that I have a big birthday coming up later this year, and so my partner has given me the green light to spend a little more since we've decided this bike will be my present. :). I still don't want to overbuy for my first bike, though, as Muirenn advised. I'm still thinking 1200-1300 as the upper limit, but that means the Felt is an option, as is the Giant with disc brakes if I can find one to try.

First off, I liked both of these bikes much more than the Specialized Diverge, and I think they were both a great fit. I rode the Felt first, and really liked it, though I noticed I was already feeling the need to change my position on the handlebars a lot to get comfy on my 10 minute ride. Shifting and breaking were both great, even in the rain. Then I rode the Trek, and I didn't really notice too much loss of quality with the Sora components, though I didn't get a chance to try hills. Breaking was a little less smooth in the rain, but nothing I was worried about. But I felt even more comfortable on the Trek then I did on the Felt. The sales guy said that he thought they should be very similar, but that the head tube on the Trek is angled slightly differently so that might account for some of the difference for me. My understanding is that the Felt is a pretty good deal, no? I am going to try them both again when I am not battling wind and rain and can take a longer spin.

Neither of these bikes is exactly my ideal looks wise. I won't let that stop me from a purchase, but I don't care much for black or red. I love grey, navy, almost any shade of blue or purple, and white.

Thanks for reading if you made it this far! I hope everyone is having drier weather than me and out doing some riding!

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The Felt is a pretty good deal, yes. :) I've owned a Felt and loved it. Going with a previous year model is a great way to save money on a new bike.

Keep in mind that comfort is a relative thing and that you have a lot of options on any given bike to make it more so - changing the angle of the handlebars, the placement of the brake/shifter levers, the seat position and tilt, changing stem length and a lot more. Talk to your bike guy and see what he recommends. Might be worth going back for another test ride on those bikes. At this stage, your comfort is all important. Think of all the hours you'll need to log on your bike to complete that century.

The bike market is so darn competitive, that as long as you start with a decent frame for your use, it's all a matter of what is bolted on to the frame after that. Don't get hung up on brand labels. Finding a good bike shop that will back up whatever brand they sell is probably more important. Sounds like you found one.

With that inseam, yup, have to say, a 58 is probably what you need. Your bike shop guy is on his toes.

The big difference between Sora and 105 is durability. The only thing on a 105 bike that will outlast 105 components is the frame and, possibly, the wheels. It's the real workhorse of the Shimano line (and these days, probably Tiagra, too). Anything above that just gets you smoother, lighter and, yeah, some snob appeal. :)

I'm fussy about color, too, but there are times when flashy and pretty can work against you - as when you live in area with a lot of bike theft, then it's helpful to go with a color that doesn't attract an audience, if you know what I mean. Drab colors, especially matte gray won't show dirt and grime as much as a glossy bright color and are usually easier to keep clean. Okay, there's me being practical. The truth is, I've been known to pass on a bike because I hated the color. Has to be a color I can at least live with. Funny thing about color, too. It's what I remember, first, on all the bikes I had years, ago.

All the additional input is appreciated, thank you! Yes, NW Gal, you are right, I will need to put in a lot of time on that bike!

I got to try a two more today at another shop - no Raleigh Merit, unfortunately, because that is a nice looking bike, Muirenn, but I tried a Raleigh Revenio which was a little awkward in a 58. Then I tried the Fuji Sportive 1.3 with disc brakes for 899. I tried a 58 first but that one wasn't ideal - the 56 was a better fit for me in that model. Not a bad bike at all, but did not ride as smoothly as some I've tried, and it took me forever to slow down. It had Tiagra components, but I just didn't feel like the quality was there in comparison to some of the others I've tried.

They had Jamis there - gorgeous looking bikes, didn't even know I could find Jamis around here...beautiful. Not anything close to my size, sadly.

Around here, we have Erik's, a Trek Store, and then all the other LBSs in town are pretty much under the same ownership though they all carry different bikes. So the Fuji place sent me to one of the sister shops to try a Cannondale Synapse. I was surprised - I found it to be a little racier than I expected. On sale, 899 for Sora. I had a tough time maneuvering the handlebars - I'm thinking that I am going to find the handlebars that come with a 58 especially awkward if the the geometry is racier, maybe? It was similar to the issue I had on the Specialized Diverge. I did not seem to have that problem at all with the either Felt Z85 and Trek 1.2 in size 58, and I think they all had the same width.

At this point, my top choices are:

Trek 1.2 - Sora components, really like the fit a lot. Not my favorite color, black, but I could probably live with it. There is something about the frame of a Trek that seems to work well for me. 969. I imagine I would probably like the 1.1 just fine, too, if it weren't red. (I hope I am not offending anyone who likes red and red bikes!).
Specialized Ruby - my favorite fit, but much more than I want to spend at 1800+ unless I can find a previous year's model, and then would probably still be more than I want to spend. I am going to try to test it again tomorrow and give the Dolce another chance as well. Both bikes fit me in a 57.
Felt Z85 - 105 components, really nice quality feeling bike, not sure I love it, wish it was in a different color scheme if I am going to spring for it, black with red and white. 1200. I think they have the current model in silver and black for 1399, which is a little better.

Honestly, I think the next step is to take longer rides on these. When you were buying your first bike, how did you know it was the one?

"When you were buying your first bike, how did you know it was the one?"

Minx, that's hard to put into perspective, since experience is such a big factor in the way we evaluate bike fit and performance. That, and the fact that the bike world has changed so much since my first road bike. For instance, when I got my first road bike, all bikes were essentially road bikes or comfort bikes. Instead of calling them road bikes, we usually just called them 10 speeds. Shows how old I am. :)

I can be intensely analytical when I need to be, but I'm basically the "if it doesn't feel right, forget it" type at heart. At this point, my advice is to pick the one you like as a friend, because that's what it's going to be. Odds are very good, anyway, that you will move on to other bikes in the future and with that experience, you'll be in a much better position to know what is and isn't right for you. Any of those bikes you've mentioned and others have suggested will do a nice job as a first road bike. All of them are a gazillion times better than the best road bike of the day when I got my first.

I'm sorry I haven't had time to read this thread in detail. Apologies if this is off-point or reiterating points already made. But I noticed something about a problem with handlebars being too wide on one bike -- you could replace them with something narrower if you end up with a bike that's perfect except for the bars.

I went from a men's Trek 2000 to a WSD Madone in the same frame size but the difference in fit and comfort was huge for me. Different bikes, and certainly not the same geometry for men's and women's. I had the shortest possible stem on the Trek 2000 and the reach was still too long. Also the handlebars were too big to ride in the drops. And I always thought I had long arms -- many long sleeved shirts are too too short for me. With the WSD Madone and the compact handlebars that came with it, I have been way more comfortable. After a few years I got a narrower version of the same handlebar to address some shoulder and neck problems.

The thing is that the Trek 2000 was my first road bike, I had a fitting done before buying it, and I thought it was okay. Until years later I was having a new saddle fitting for it, and the guy doing the fitting pointed out that my shoulders were hunched because the reach was too long. I didn't really understand what he was saying until I tried the WSD Madone. He let me take it for a long test ride because I was concerned about the gearing; after about 10 minutes I understood his point about the reach on the old bike.

So I guess my point is to try to pay attention to your shoulders, neck and arms while you are test riding. With your hands on the hoods, your elbows should be a bit bent. You should be able to ride with your neck and relaxed, not hunched up. Also try riding in the drops -- you should feel comfortable and able to reach and work the brake/shift levers easily.

Re: aluminum frames, my first bike was aluminum and I rode several centuries and many other 60-80 mile rides on it. It was fine and I would still be riding it if the fit had been better.

Good luck!

Thanks for being so generous with input and suggestions! You know, I always thought my town was pretty lousy with bike shops - but it's surprising how few models and/or brands are available. Even my REI has pretty much zero selection. It's total Trek take-over :). So, no CAAD for me unless I travel pretty far.

But this week I tried a Trek domane 2.0 (the base model) and it was okay, not much different from the Trek 1.2 I tried in my opinion. I just can't shake the feeling that these men's 58s I've been trying are just a bit big too big - long reach, and I feel like I'm borrowing a bike from someone who is a little bigger than me. I appreciated the input about too long-reach, NY biker, because I think I've been experiencing some of that. I would say that the Trek 1.2 is the one I felt most at home on of all of the men's bikes - definitely the best fit for me. The Felt definitely felt like a great quality bike, but not quite right, at least as is.

So, went back to Specialized. I realized that on at least one of the occasions, I tried a women's 54 Dolce instead of 57, which would certainly account for the cramped feeling. I took a longer test ride on both the Ruby and the Dolce, about 20 minutes each. I felt at home on both, especially getting on and off the bikes and making sharp turns. (I didn't mention this before, but in some of my test rides with the men's bikes, I was nervous about turning on them and so I actually stopped the bike and got down, turned, and climbed back on. I was embarrassed and thought it was my nervousness as a new road bike rider, but now I also think it is at least partly the fit.)

So now I am leaning towards the Dolce I love the smoother ride of the Ruby, but I am thinking I might like to go base model or sport model Dolce at first and then wait a year and see if the Ruby is still my dream bike, or if my ideal bike is something else entirely, like a men's with some adjustments, such as new handlebars.