So...how helpful is it REALLY to use clipless/toe clips/Power Grips?

I have used flat pedals with sneakers since I started riding and generally found this to work fine (the occasional rough shift does knock a foot off for a moment), but now that I have been riding with some groups people have been trying to convince me to clip in. Reasons I have been reluctant to do so include the fact that it complicates starting and stopping (an issue since I often use the bike for errands, which can involve some stop and go riding), it introduces the possibility of crashing due to not getting out of the pedals in time (whether in an emergency stop or just the classic 0 mph tip-over), and (if using clipless) the need for special shoes that may not be good for walking in, especially for someone used to a minimal shoe. However, everybody says it helps with power transfer and efficiency, which may mean it would help me with speed (or more precisely my lack thereof, I usually average 12-13.5 mph) and maybe make climbing easier since that is an issue. So...how much do the stiffer soled shoes and being attached to the pedals really help? I am trying to decide if the improvements would be worth the downsides mentioned above, and would be interested to hear people's thoughts.

When I got my first pair of cycling shoes lo these many years ago, it added 1.5 mph (7-8% roughly) to my speed without making any other changes at all.

Those were nylon soles, I don't think there even were carbon soled shoes that long ago?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

When I got my first pair of cycling shoes lo these many years ago, it added 1.5 mph (7-8% roughly) to my speed without making any other changes at all.

Those were nylon soles, I don't think there even were carbon soled shoes that long ago?

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Wow. My LBS guy did say that the shoes make a big difference. How bad are they to walk in (MTB shoes, I know road shoes are awful so will not even consider using those)?

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Wow. My LBS guy did say that the shoes make a big difference. How bad are they to walk in (MTB shoes, I know road shoes are awful so will not even consider using those)?

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Mountain bike shoes are very easy to walk in. I won't consider road shoes either.

I would say for road biking, my pedaling is improved 10-15% when clipped in because I can shift the burn by pulling stead of pushing and also for more efficient power. Lots of people are using toe clips if they are too scared to completely clip in.

I don't dare mountain bike clipless. I tried that and it was not worth the 10% improvement uphill and the 80% worsening when going downhill (I was literally scared too stiff to move/have good bike-body separation).

I wrote a reply earlier and I don't see it here. Maybe I forgot to post from my phone.
As Tiger Mom said, mtb shoes are no different than any shoes. What one of my friends did is first she got the stiff soled mtb shoes. Then, she added Power Grips. Of course, she said she'd never go clipless, but soon after, she did.
My suggestion would be Speedplay Frogs. More expensive, but so easy to get in and out of.
And, just for the record, I never had any clipless falls when I started. I rode around for about 3 weeks, with one foot clipped in, on flat streets in my old neighborhood. Finally, I said, this is stupid, and never looked back. I can barely ride on flat pedals now.

I gained 2 mph and not sure I can quantify how much it saves when my legs get tired. It helps to be able to pull up as well as push down.

I've been using toe clips for over the last 2 decades. And I cycle not just for transportation, touring, fitness,etc. I do wear mountain bike shoes and am particular that the stiff sole, must have even slight flex. I can /do walk around in my shoes (I've had different pairs over the years.) for several km.

Yes, you will feel the difference with wearing a stiffer sole shoe when climbing hills.

Being able to use your hamstrings to lift through the back half of the pedal stroke and keeping the correct foot position on the pedal are two big advantages to having a stiff soled shoe locked to a pedal. Both help with giving more cycling efficiency and power over platform pedals. On climbs using both quads and hamstrings also makes you a more efficient climber and you can come off the saddle and use your body weight without risk of your foot coming off the pedal. If any of that is important to you then try clipless if not then since you're comfortable with platforms stick with them but replace the sneakers with at least a stiff soled touring/mb/low cut hiking etc shoes.

It shouldn't take much repetition for unclipping to become just another routine habit.

+1 on frogs and mountain bike shoes for comfortable walking and easy to get out of clipless pedals.

What a great thread.. Thanks for starting it Jolt! I have wondered about the clipless shoes but haven't made it to the point of wanting to change. The information you guys have provided will come in handy later. :)

This is all getting complicated! Right now I am leaning toward trying the Powergrips on the pedals I have now which are nice big platforms with fairly good grip (MKS Lambda). That way I am not locked into wearing a special shoe and don't have to buy new pedals either. As far as stiffer soled shoes, does anyone have any recommendations? I'd be looking for something that preferably doesn't have a very thick sole so that I still have the option of hopping on the bike in my Merrells etc. for errands without the saddle height being off (see what I mean about things getting complicated?). I seem to remember Five Ten being a brand people here have liked, and was looking at some of their offerings but of course, the one I liked best that looked like a regular sneaker (model name was "Dirtbag", ugh) doesn't come in small enough sizes.

For ME, I strongly preferred my good quality BMX pedals over anything until I moved to Frogs. The Five Tens are most useful for this style of pedals as the pins in the pedals can more easily bite into the sole - which provides stability and makes it even less likely that your feet will fly off the pedal at the most inopportune moment. The downside of "pinned", or BMX pedals (whichever way you wish to refer to them), is the learning curve on stopping to prevent pedal slap. THAT will leave scars, because they are, basically, little meat grinders. I learned pretty quickly how to prevent that, and my scars faded :-) Learning curve aside, I preferred them because they were far less complicated (to me) than having to "insert" my feet into something, regardless how minimal. I literally rode all day long on those pedals!

Whichever way you go, you will need stiffer soled shoes - regular sneakers won't provide that. The stiffer the sole, the less chance for hot spots to develop in your feet from the sole of your shoe collapsing around the pedal and that causes problems. I rode thousands of miles on BMX, or "pinned" platform pedals and really like them. MY platform pedal of choice is the Sunringle ZuZu.

The best shoes I found for my platform pedals was the Keen Commuter. Frankly I strongly disliked them for use with cleats (not stiff enough), but they were great for use with my platform pedals. Just stiff enough, yet fine for walking around and for other use. They have a different profile than the usual Keen hiking sandals and I still wear mine for other use. I got them from a TE member in 2010 and they still look no different than they did then! They LAST!

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Originally Posted by Catrin

For ME, I strongly preferred my good quality BMX pedals over anything until I moved to Frogs. The Five Tens are most useful for this style of pedals as the pins in the pedals can more easily bite into the sole - which provides stability and makes it even less likely that your feet will fly off the pedal at the most inopportune moment. The downside of "pinned", or BMX pedals (whichever way you wish to refer to them), is the learning curve on stopping to prevent pedal slap. THAT will leave scars, because they are, basically, little meat grinders. I learned pretty quickly how to prevent that, and my scars faded :-) Learning curve aside, I preferred them because they were far less complicated (to me) than having to "insert" my feet into something, regardless how minimal. I literally rode all day long on those pedals!

Whichever way you go, you will need stiffer soled shoes - regular sneakers won't provide that. The stiffer the sole, the less chance for hot spots to develop in your feet from the sole of your shoe collapsing around the pedal and that causes problems. I rode thousands of miles on BMX, or "pinned" platform pedals and really like them. MY platform pedal of choice is the Sunringle ZuZu.

The best shoes I found for my platform pedals was the Keen Commuter. Frankly I strongly disliked them for use with cleats (not stiff enough), but they were great for use with my platform pedals. Just stiff enough, yet fine for walking around and for other use. They have a different profile than the usual Keen hiking sandals and I still wear mine for other use. I got them from a TE member in 2010 and they still look no different than they did then! They LAST!

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Those Keen sandals look like they might be good...I also see that they are on sale at JensonUSA for half price right now, if a size 6 would work (I usually wear a 6 or 6.5). How different are they from regular Keens?

They are designed for riding, so the shape is more streamlined to fit on the pedal. There is a place for SPD/Frog/and similar cleats. They are also sturdy enough for light hiking :)

These are the shoes I bought (not from this site - just example) and they are perfect for my needs.
http://www.artscyclery.com/Giro_Wome...age-GIWWS.html

Hard enough to be able to push. Perfect gripping on flat pedal to avoid slipping and fit perfectly in the toe clips I have. Perfect to walk around once stopped.

You could also use them with some clipless models cleats later on as they have holes under but does not interfere with walking.

I love them.

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Originally Posted by Helene2013

These are the shoes I bought (not from this site - just example) and they are perfect for my needs.
http://www.artscyclery.com/Giro_Wome...age-GIWWS.html

Hard enough to be able to push. Perfect gripping on flat pedal to avoid slipping and fit perfectly in the toe clips I have. Perfect to walk around once stopped.

You could also use them with some clipless models cleats later on as they have holes under but does not interfere with walking.

I love them.

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Those look like they might work well too...but I'm not a big fan of that pink. Not really my style, why can't they just make a plain black or gray, or at least pick a better accent color?

At the store I went they only had those and they did fit with my bike colour (then). Maybe they have different colours too. But if I'd have to look for something again, I would tend to look for such shoe design. The grip is just perfect (not too spiky, nor flat), etc.

Just went ahead and ordered the Keens from JensonUSA...a lot of reviews said they run a half size big so the size 6 should fit, and it was hard to pass up such a good price. I think I got the last pair. Hopefully they will work. I could have ordered the Powergrips from the same site but would feel better about ordering those through my LBS.

I think you will like the Keen Commuters. They last forever :) I find normal Keen to be overly bulky but these are much more streamlined. Enjoy!

These are the shoes I've been wearing http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPI_15213002.html I find them to be pretty comfortable and they have a recessed cleat so walking around in them is no problem. I haven't bought my clipless pedals yet. I just started road biking last fall and I wanted to get used to the feel of the bike before I threw in the clips. I'm thinking I might be ready by fall. If not then, definitely by next sprig,

For mountain. Biking, there are lots of good reasons not to use clip less and to use MTB specific flat shoes and pedals. The whole sacrifice efficiency has been somewhat disproven. The confidence and balance that most people gain MTB-ing in flats can far outweigh any so-called efficient power stoke.

What Irulan said. I rode mtb pedals on the road but was never even tempted to clip in on the trails. My pinned platform pedals increases my trail confidence. While many do on the trails, I know many well experienced mtbrs who have returned to platform pedals after years of clipping in.

Is it just me, or does clipping in on trails seem like a great recipe for a crash?

For beginners, yes. Once you understand it, no- mostly. This is probably the most hotly debated topic in mountain biking. (Flats vs clip less). I'll never go back to clippers, but there are plenty of folks who like it just fine.

The best MTBers in our club use clips. I don't and never will. Spikes and stiff soled shoes for me.

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Originally Posted by Irulan

For beginners, yes. Once you understand it, no- mostly. This is probably the most hotly debated topic in mountain biking. (Flats vs clip less). I'll never go back to clippers, but there are plenty of folks who like it just fine.

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Irulan - do you ride platforms on your road bike?

Speedplays

I probably shouldn't have brought mtb in the discussion because OP was asking for road riding, right?

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Originally Posted by thekarens

The best MTBers in our club use clips. I don't and never will. Spikes and stiff soled shoes for me.

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with the crew I run with, maybe 1/10 is clipped in now ----
I just gave a private clinic to two "old school" xc riders, been riding since pre 2000. They asked me about the differences, and we had a long discussion. Since 1 of the the two has has a severe loss of confidence due to a serious injury, my recommendation to her is to ditch the clips. He could see the benefits immediately for balance, and movement. Some time I think people aren't interested in trying something new/different and want to stay with what they know. I won't go on and on about it for mountain biking, since I"m pretty sure OP was asking for road/casual/commuting purposes.

I think the only ones who would mind you bringing up MTB would be road snobs, and we do not seem to have them on this sight, so I think you are in the clear, Irulan. �� I am considering Speedpay LA's, but with my last clipless endeavor I am still on the fence.

Lol don't be so sure. There are plenty mtb diehards of both ilks, (flat or clip less) that get very up on high horses about any way but their way being oh so wrong.

I have power grips on the Surly ECR and have been enjoying them. I can't wear my keen's though, to wide and getting them in and out makes my knee hurt - but they also aren't the commuter so hopefully those are easier. On my touring/commuting bike I have been riding the Shimano A530 for at least six years and they so fit the ticket for me, clip in on one side, flat on the other. I scored a pair of pearl izumi's mtb shoes on the REI website last fall that have ended up being perfect for me. the cleat is recessed enough that I even ride them in the power grip.

Well, the shoes (Keen Commuters) just arrived today and they fit me nicely, though they feel like clod-hoppers to walk around in (at least there is not much heel to toe drop). Tomorrow I will try them out on my grocery run and on a group ride in the evening. It does look like I will need to adjust saddle height a little bit because of the extra thickness compared to my sneakers, which could become a bit annoying if I then want to hop on in regular shoes for a quick errand (no quick release on the seat post). It will be interesting to see how much difference the shoes make, before adding any foot retention (I still may do that later).