Host- guest customs

I'd like some outside perspective on a situation that I'm boiling mad about.

If you had a guest for a week, would you ask them to do chores? Would you consider them to be a rude guest if they failed to fulfill your requests?
Would it make a difference if the guest was 18 yrs old?
If she is your 18 yr old son's girlfriend?

The girlfriend in question is my daughter. They've been dating for almost a year, and she spent the night at his house frequently during the summer. This was her first (and probably last) extended visit. Whereas we've treated her like an adult for the past few years, he has always had a curfew and chores, and has to get permission to go anywhere or do anything. His parents exercise a lot of control over him.

She spent her Thanksgiving break at his house. Before the visit she asked me, "Should I bring a hostess gift?" Since the traditional hostess gift is a bottle of wine, and she is only 18, I told her to ask her boyfriend what was expected. I certainly wouldn't expect such a thing, if we were going to have a guest for a week. He said nothing was expected. I mention this because although she doesn't have any experience being a guest for a week, she was conscious that there might be some expectations.

His parents had him do a lot of chores during his vacation. And his dad asked her to tidy up the bathroom. Not tidy up HER stuff in the bathroom, but tidy up the bathroom. She meant to, but forgot, and now his dad is mad and doesn't want her to visit ever again and furthermore they're not going to let him spend a week at our house over winter break.

She feels horrible for forgetting to clean the bathroom and she's extremely upset about not getting to spend time with her boyfriend. I'm boiling mad for her.

Obviously they don't realize how lucky they are. She could be obnoxious, noisy, into all kinds of objectionable and illegal activities. Instead she's quiet, polite (although they were offended because she didn't say 'please' and 'thank you' enough), smart, and responsible. She didn't leave her stuff all over the place. She didn't get into other people's stuff-- she felt a little uncomfortable about being asked to tidy up the bathroom because it would mean messing with other people's stuff.

This was probably just as much to vent as it was to get perspective. If you have some speculation as to what is behind what seems to me to be irrational behavior, I appreciate it, if you just have sympathy for me & her, I appreciate that too. :)

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His parents had him do a lot of chores during his vacation. And his dad asked her to tidy up the bathroom. Not tidy up HER stuff in the bathroom, but tidy up the bathroom. She meant to, but forgot, and now his dad is mad and doesn't want her to visit ever again and furthermore they're not going to let him spend a week at our house over winter break.

She feels horrible for forgetting to clean the bathroom and she's extremely upset about not getting to spend time with her boyfriend. I'm boiling mad for her.

Obviously they don't realize how lucky they are. She could be obnoxious, noisy, into all kinds of objectionable and illegal activities. Instead she's quiet, polite (although they were offended because she didn't say 'please' and 'thank you' enough), smart, and responsible. She didn't leave her stuff all over the place. She didn't get into other people's stuff-- she felt a little uncomfortable about being asked to tidy up the bathroom because it would mean messing with other

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Wow, weird parents. How old is he? 18-19?

(Look out....--! Should she ever um....marry to have in-laws like that.)

I think it's reasonable to expect an 18-yr. guest to clean up after their own mess and bring along their own empty dishes, not bring food into other areas of the house unless it's ok.

If the whole family is ie. raking leaves, I mean the whole family, then it would be nice she participated in a leisurely way. Or the whole family is putting dirty dishes away, then yes, she voluntarily helps. Not told.

:eek: As for not saying please and thank you enough times, honest I'm sure your daughter was polite. They sound like control freaks and treat your daughter like a child, instead of a young adult.

The tough thing, is your role as mother and perhaps be gracious and firm that there's something very strange that she is asked to do chores when she is..well only a guest. You don't want to cause her to make a decision between your opinion /you and what she feels for her boyfriend. Best to tell her that caring for her boyfriend is very different, doesn't mean she has to agree with his parents.

Sorry to hear, that his parents (or is it just the father) is forbidding mutual stayovers now..

And the parents are European-based? I'm asking because in some cultures/some families, women have this expectation...

FWIW my son brought his girlfriend last year (they were both 20.) I made it clear that gifts weren't expected. We gave her a gift, but I knew she was a poor college student, so I didn't expect or want anything from her. She was here for 2 weeks and I didn't expect anything other than they pick up after themselves (ie take the dishes back to the kitchen, etc.) and do their own laundry. I would never have asked or expected her to clean the boys bathroom. As far as I'm concerned that's my boys' job and if she wants to help or if they wanted her to help that was up to them.

Frankly to me that situation sounds ridiculous on several levels...and to not let their son stay with y'all over something so silly...well, I can't even begin to explain that one.

They're American. His dad grew up in this area (midwest). I was surprised that there seems to be a cultural difference, given that we seem to be from the same culture.

Thanks, I felt the whole thing was pretty unreasonable.

I'm making an effort not to be too angry about it in front of my daughter, because she's upset enough and she'll be more upset if I'm angry. I'm trying to focus on being sympathetic, understanding, and reassuring. She's not a bad guest, she didn't do anything wrong.

Well. I think his parents are way over the line. But I also think that your daughter is kind of in a grey area between "guest" and "family." So while I don't think it was appropriate for them to ask her to do chores - and especially for them to express anger when she didn't do them - I think that she should've taken it upon herself to help with the chores in common areas, not just picking up after herself.

Her reticence about "messing with other people's stuff" ... I can't really speak to whether it's appropriate or not, because I have similar issues. But I might point out that while my issues stem from some deep childhood stuff that I've been poking at pretty hard in therapy the last few weeks, that reticence made it *extremely* difficult for me to integrate into either of my husbands' families.

Obviously it's way too early for her to be thinking about having in-laws. But it seems to me, as an outsider looking in, that those extended family relationships have to begin to take shape *before* there's a long term commitment between the couple ... when they are still in that grey area.

I don't think I know enough about the situation to have an opinion. Mostly because I am completely biased on your behalf, but realize that the hosts may not be accustomed to having guests, or perhaps your daughter is messier than they anticipated. However, I recommend that you try hard to not show your feelings about it (which you mentioned is your approach as well). Have her write a gracious thank-you note and let time soften the rough edges. The guy in this story should rise to her defense as well, if not, perhaps this is not a viable long term relationship. Take the high road.

When my now 25 year old daughter has invited guests (friends or a boyfriend), I appreciate it if they offer to help with dishes and just pick up after themselves, but would never in a million years assign chores. It would be polite of a long term guest to offer to help with something little like that- and many times I would expect the host would say no thank you to anything bigger than dishes, etc. I can imagine what a nice surprise it would be if I cam home from work and found the living room or bathroom cleaned up (maybe as a team effort by daughter and friend) as a gesture of appreciation, but absolutely not expected. (In my house, that never happened, btw.)

So I think the bf's parents are a little out of line.

Well, as a parent of a 16 yr old, it doesn't sound that unfamiliar. We're pretty big on doing chores and have a set rotation, that goes for everybody in the household. We wouldn't be past asking a house guest for a week to pitch in on our routine, but most likely it would be helping out with our son's chores that week. We would never ask a house guest to do something involving tidying away other people's things, though! And most importantly, we would never complain about it afterwards. And, as I mentioned, we have a 16 yr.old, not an 18. yr. old. Big difference.

Maybe they seem to exercise a lot of control on him because they have a lot of conflict with him around helping out at home, maybe he isn't as mature as your daughter. It sounds a little like they extended the way they treat him to the way they treated her. I can completely understand why you're upset, though, they took it too far imo.

It drives me crazy when my in laws come to stay and my MIL wants to help with chores. It's extra work to tell her what to do. I finally offered that she could scoop the cat box. She declined. :D I do think it's weird that they asked her to clean the bathroom - unless she was the only one using it. That's just too personal of a place.

Veronica

She wrote out a very sincere apology last night & sent it to her boyfriend to deliver to his parents this morning. Mom rejected it and said "she can apologize to me in person". So she was going to call-- but I said carefully "I'm worried it might escalate. It might be better to wait a few days until you've both calmed down." To my astonishment, she listened to me, and decided to wait.

For being so young, and for starting out as a high school romance, they are very serious about each other. I was predicting (quietly) that it wouldn't last being apart in college, but they are still very much in love. Given that both sets of parents met & married young, and we're both coming up on 20+ yr anniversaries, well, I wouldn't want to make any predictions for them now. Therefore, these very well could be in-laws. I hope this is just a phase, that they're having trouble to adjusting to the new reality of their son as an adult, and that it won't be contentious for decades to come.

Thanks for the support. This sort of thing always sucks to deal with, but I hadn't given much thought to having to watch HER deal with it. :( Mama Bear wants to defend the cub. :)

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Originally Posted by Melalvai

She wrote out a very sincere apology last night & sent it to her boyfriend to deliver to his parents this morning. Mom rejected it and said "she can apologize to me in person". So she was going to call-- but I said carefully "I'm worried it might escalate. It might be better to wait a few days until you've both calmed down." To my astonishment, she listened to me, and decided to wait.

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I think this says it all. Who rejects a thank you note out of hand? Good luck dealing with this. I agree that their approach seems over-bearing - but this is just too much!

That's not a very mature response from his mother. I've always thought a written apology was worth more than a spoken one. If I had a dollar for every time a student said "I'm sorry," without really meaning it, I could probably buy another new mountain bike. His mother should not be treating your daughter like a child, but maybe she's still figuring the relationship out.

Veronica

They are lucky it's you and not me. I don't have the patience to deal with and accept that kind of intolerance and lack of flexibility. Assuming that they even had a real reason to be offended, to not accept a written apology would be too much for me. They could have said thank you for the apology and we'll discuss this in person the next time we see each other.

These parents are control freaks who don't see their son as an adult. Unless he starts demanding that they do, I would tell my child to run as far as s/he can. Some parents just don't get that once your kids have a partner, their first allegiance is to that person, and not the parents. I know they are young, but... my in-laws expected that I would be a certain way. Call them mom and dad and call them all of the time. I had no desire to do that as I felt i already had parents. They wanted things done *their* way. DH stuck by me the whole time. We didn't talk to them for 5 years at a time and finally, moving 2,800 miles did the trick.
And, I would never ask a guest to clean the bathroom!

I have a couple of thoughts..
"dating most of a year" In my mind that moves out of the realm of houseguest and into the realm of something more.

Does "tidy up" the bathroom mean hang up your towel and get the hair out of the sink, or does it mean get on your hands and knees with the rubber gloves and the Lysol?

At my house especially with the young'uns... I totally expect them to help clean up, do dishes, strip their bed, tidy up as in, well, tidy up the bathroom. I do not expect them to do heavy cleaning. For certain, I am not running a hotel and and I do not wait on house guests.

These people sound manipulative and controlling. Maybe your daughter will see that.

Uh, weird. I've been with my BF for nearly 6 years (so, practically family). Yes, a SO of an extended period of time falls into a gray area of "not a typical houseguest, but not quite family either" area. I've usually spent a week with BF's family at a time. I'd help with cooking (chopping stuff, stirring stuff, or I'd be in charge of a side dish), dishes, my own laundry if I did any (unless we did a load of cycling clothes), or tidying up the bathroom. (That mostly consists of "keep my stuff corralled and my hair out of the drain".) Now that we've been together longer, I have no problem with helping to clean the kitchen or something similar. I don't like touching other people's stuff without permission, so my helping out still ends up being "Where does this go? Where do you want this? I need to do x. Where is y?" Usually it's faster for BF to do it for me. (Yes, I've been visiting these people for a while and I still don't know where everything is...)

It was the same when we visited my parents when we were in college. He'd help with the cooking, strip his bed before he left, did his own laundry, and "keep the bathroom neat" is "don't leave soap and hair everywhere and hang up the bathmat when you're done." No "clean the bathroom" stuff.

That response from his mom...:confused: Who does that?

Ok, the asking to help with a chore and being annoyed she forgot I guess you could chalk up to different house rules and child/adult distinction, and them treating your daughter as a family member more than a guest. But being openly furious afterwards and refusing to accept a written apology is just way beyond different customs. It's either incredibly rude, or there's something more behind this. Is there anything your daughter maybe didn't pick up on? Is there any way they have been annoyed at her for some time, for not helping out regularly when she visits, for instance? Or does she change the way they relate to their son? And are they used to having house guests? Some people (I'm one of them) enjoy visitors but it stresses them a lot.

I'm not defending them, just trying to understand their rather bizarre behaviour.

Helping out can be a fine line - when our son was small and my ILs would babysit, my MIL felt very free to "help out" at home. I didn't mind her straightening the kitchen and putting away the dishes, but when she started making our beds and picking up clothes in the bedroom I had to politely tell her to please, stay out... I like to help out too because it makes me feel useful, but I stay out of people's bedrooms!

Those people sound psychotic! If I were your DD I'd be thinking very hard on whether this is a family I want to be involved with long-term. Unfortunately, when we marry someone we are also marrying their family. My MIL is a royal PITA and has said and done some really exasperating things over the years that make me so envious of my friends with wonderful ILs. My MIL's obnoxiousness has not been a total deal-breaker (in large part because she has always lived out-of-state), but I have friends who have true "monster-in-laws" and it has caused irreparable damage to their marriages.

Meh, hostess gift, damn yes, not wine (who says a hostess gift is wine? That is quite an assumption and I drink a lot of wine) but something. 18 is not adult when you live with your parents, however liberal you might like to think you are. I think there is more to this than you are getting. Frankly at 18 she should be helping out with anything a family member would do, and over and above as a guest for a whole week. Maybe she isn't expected to clean in her own home? Forgetting to clean up her bathroom after she was asked is pretty off IMO. My In laws stay for extended periods and I make a point of asking them to do stuff because they don't really get up and do stuff unbidden. I am almost 50 and a grown up and not a maid. House guests pull their weight. Otherwise get a hotel. I was 18 once too. My in laws never bring a hostess gift but they don't like me LOL, but they always bring stuff for my kids so that is all good.
Don't be boiling mad for her, be neutral and get her to think about what went wrong herself. 18 yr old sleepovers with boyfriends is standard where you are? Does she sleep with him in his parents house? That is pretty liberal in America, no? ( I am not american but where I live in the USA this would not be standard behaviour)

Edited for horrible spelling.

Well, I respectfully disagree. I treated my kids as adults when they turned 18. Of course, there were expectations in return, but normal, treat us the way you want to be treated. When they came home from college or the military, they just had to tell us if they were't coming home at night, so we didn't worry. Girlfriends were accepted.
My parents treated me the same way. You are right, values are different in different places. My kids turned out great, despite their liberal upbringing.

Ditto! When my son brought his girlfriend home last Christmas she stayed in his room. I was fine with it. I figured if he's old enough to be sent to war he's old enough to make those kinds of decisions.

Of course, in a lot of places me being a lesbian isn't acceptable either, but I don't give a damn. What I do in my personal life is nobody's business...same applies to my kids.

Sounds like a dreadful time, from what the OP wrote. I know when I was 18, I was definitely not an adult even though I was a sophomore in college, and I made many questionable judgments and decisions. I think it's a time when the brain is still developing. I needed more guidance on some aspects of life and social conduct.

A few good life lessons from this seems to be:
1. Always bring a hostess gift (it does not have to be wine)
2. When in Rome...play by the rules of your hosts. If they have different rules that the guest cannot abide by for whatever reason, it's best to excuse oneself from the situation altogether (i.e., bow out gracefully and go home).
3. Always write a thank you note (and send it directly to the host)
4. Everyone is different and people have different expectations and ways of conducting family life, particularly when children (even 18-year olds) are still living under the family's roof. That will not change in a week of hosting.
5. There might be some long-term decisions to be made from this, including the potential in-law thing. In-laws/parents can wreak havoc on a marriage if the couple is not ready to stand together on their own, and at 18, few couples are ready to do that.

I hope your daughter can learn from this experience, as I'm sure she will encounter many more unexpected and flabergasting situations along the way. She sounds like a responsible person.

I second what Tulip wrote. Even though I treated my kids like adults at that age, I can sympathize with what *might* have been going on. It can be exhausting when your adult children plus guest come home for a week, more cooking to do, more dishes to be washed, etc. So last time our son's gf was here, I did get annoyed that while they would bring their dirty dishes to the sink, they never loaded or unloaded the dishwasher, and I let them both know this. She replied that in her parent's home, guests would never be allowed to do that, and in fact later when her family entertained us and I got up to help clear the table I was firmly stopped. I let her know it was because we are treating her as family and not a guest, that we expect everyone to contribute. If we do the cooking, we want them to help clean up etc. It was all settled amicably through dialogue, but sometimes one has to be sensitive to different families having different customs, expectations, etc. For me, it was kitchen help, perhaps for them it was bathroom help, but I can understand how they may have felt.

For now, instead of being angry, I think she should work on repairing the relationship if she is serious about this young man. How about swallowing her pride, mailing a thoughtful after gift (doesn't need to be expensive, but now that she has been in their home maybe she has a better idea of what they might appreciate), and a thank you note/apology.

I think it was pretty rude that they asked her to clean the bathroom (of all things) while she was a guest in their home. When she forgot to do it, it would have been classy to just let it go. The fact that they even mentioned this to their son and then responded that way to her super sweet gesture to apologize just shows how rude they are. It sounds to me like they could be trying to sabotage the relationship.

Tulip nailed it. Take the high road.

I don't have children, so I don't have the family perspective. But these people sound like control freaks. I can't imagine asking a guest to clean the bathroom -- or do much of anything regarding housework, really.

I don't like guests pitching in to help very much at all (got that from my mother) so perhaps I have a bias.

Hope this is resolved without additional distress to your daughter.

I would wonder what the BF's take is on all of this. Is he going to stand up to his parents and visit your daughter even if they forbid it? What is going to be the consequence if he does? Your daughter and her BF need to talk this through.

My kids aren't guests in my home, and now that they are married, their wives aren't, either. They both helped in appropriate ways a couple of weeks ago when both were here. DS #1 and his wife, often stayed here when they were dating and they had a commuter relationship. That situation was probably more like a guest thing, and she followed my son's lead. I don't have guests often, but I don't find it onerous. The only time I required anything more than clean up after yourself with my kids was last spring when DS #1 and his wife stayed here after going to a wedding near my house. As pre-arranged, we met them there at the end, DH took them back here, and I drove their car back here, as they had been drinking. DIL got sick in the night and tried cleaning up in the middle of the night. DH went into the bathroom and saw she had not done such a good job, which sent DIL into a frenzy of cleaning, as she felt horrible! I love cooking for others, and don't expect them to clean up, although they offer to help. We mostly go out, or take turns cooking and paying for restaurants.
My kids always write thank you notes to others, and perhaps having a Bar Mitzvah at age 13 and having to write 50-100 thank you notes seared it into their brain! The rule was to write 5 a night, until they were done. My older son ran for class secretary based on his thank you note writing skills! The class laughed at his speech. Two years ago, he single handedly planned and pulled off the ten yr. reunion. I told him it was payback for all the organizing I had to do for him. Seriously, give your kids more credit. I know some 18 year olds need more parental guidance than others, but if you do the talking and teaching along the way, it's not so bad.

My daughter just wants to be able to see her boyfriend and will do whatever it takes. If she has to jump through hoops to deliver her apology in a manner his mom will accept, she will.

I advised her to wait to attempt a 2nd apology, because I thought everyone could use some time to cool down. She's got several tests and finals coming up, and doesn't need the distraction of melodrama. I try not give unsolicited advice, especially to her, but this time I did, and she listened to me.

I talked to a friend of mine who lives in his town, and she offered for either or both of them to stay with her if that is needed.

I get the feeling that the boyfriend is on the verge of severing relations with his parents. The fact that they still do support him financially and that he is very close to his little brother is all that's keeping him from doing that. Of course I only know his side of it, as told through his girlfriend. But they should be careful or they'll drive him away completely.

The hardest part for me is that there is really nothing I can do. Well, nothing I ought to do! I had quite a few imaginary conversations in my head where I gave his mom a piece of my mind. But of course I wouldn't really talk to her, the kids have to work this out for themselves. (I did quietly unfriend her on facebook.) My daughter has had a really difficult time adjusting to college. Her first semester was very hard. Her first roommate didn't work out, at the mostly-male engineering school she didn't make friends right away, the classes were difficult, and she was so homesick & lonely. She got pretty depressed. When she came home Saturday night she was on cloud 9, happier than I've seen her all semester. Then she got up Sunday morning and told me "His mom thinks I'm rude and that I'm a terrible guest". Right back to upset & depressed. It's awful to feel so helpless when she's suffering.

But only 2 more weeks and then she'll be home for winter break.

You are a good mother, Melalvai.

You are a good mother. Even though we can't, we always want to come to our children's defense.

I am most concerned by your remarks that your daughter is having trouble adjusting to college. Is the mostly male engineering school she is at MIT by any chance? My son had difficulties adjusting there even as a boy. Irrespective of how the bf+family situation resolves, I would encourage her to seek counseling at her school. There are counselors trained to help students in her situation. Another idea is to find some campus social group where she fits. Even though my son was a math and computer science major, he minored in Portuguese, and found a warm community within the Portuguese dept. that was more nurturing, they would go to films together, etc. (his dad was born in Portugal, which is where the interest developed). It is really important that she develop an emotional support network at school, especially if she is undertaking a major with a tough curriculum.

I hope you didn't take my previous remarks to indicate approval of how the bf's family behaved, just an attempt to see it from their perspective and bring the situation to an amicable conclusion. Keep us posted as to how it resolves.

I agree with Trisk; counseling sounds in order, as ages 18-25 is the time all sorts of emotional health issues can start and fester if not addressed. I didn't get the idea she is at MIT, but I might wonder about the fit of the school for her. She shouldn't be coming home and depending on you to make her feel less depressed.

A predominantly male student faculty, where engineering would take some adjustment..even for the strongest of young women. (unless she socialized alot with guys alot prior to university).

I don't know about engineering in the U.S., but the top university undergraduate engineering faculties in Canada, make the lst year tough: it is deliberate to create the bell curve/weed out who don't belong academically. Then later years, are abit easier.

Confirmed from: my dearie who has his civil engineering degree. 2nd confirmed from my brother-in-law who is assistant professor for one of the engineering university faculties in Toronto. He's been teaching there for the past decade. I asked latter and was amazed it was still true.

Poor kid. (Kid? She's not that much younger than I am...) I went to a university that is well-known for its engineering program (though I didn't go for engineering), mostly male and had a hard time adjusting. (I had a roommate that seemed to live on cheap tequila, for one thing.) My first year was rough. And I am friends with enough engineers to know that engineering school is also rough.

Does she come home often? Is she involved on campus? (I know, the first year it's hard to get involved, especially with the workload.) Does she have friends there now and a better living situation? It may be an adjustment issue, but I'd ask her to take a look into counseling at the university just to make sure. I think how your daughter feels is how I've been feeling most of this semester. Counseling definitely helped.

I had counselling (related to personal matters plus choice of studies) during my 2nd yr. in university and for certain, it helped me ...for life. That's how important it was for myself --it helped me become stronger and more self-aware.

Both of these 2 guys now engineers, did affirm it was tough for them with a heavy workload in undergrad. years. My partner was one of the quieter guys at that time, he wasn't your frat boy: he was also holding down a part-time job close to home (because his parents were poor and he did not have scholarship himself) and lived 50 km. away from university, as a full time student.

A few weeks ago she did take advantage of the campus counseling services. I was so impressed because she did that pretty independently, only asking me about the mechanics of it (ie, was insurance involved--no). She goes to Rolla, and they are up front that the first year is to weed them out. She got involved with the rock climbing club for a while, but when all the other women dropped out, she wasn't comfortable being the only female so she dropped that too. She is in band, which proved to be less socially rewarding than we anticipated. Her new roommate has a lot more in common with her, and a couple others have taken her under their wing, so things did get better in November.

She's not going to flunk anything, but I will not be surprised if she loses scholarships. But maybe not; her courses next semester seem more reasonable-- maybe-- math is her strength but she'll be in Calc II, which has taken down many strong souls!

Well, there is something I do know something about. Because I've forgotten every single thing I learned in multivariate calculus, except one: few, if any, human beings can imagine what something looks like in seven dimensions. I vividly remember the engineering students struggling, because they were trying to visualize the problems, as I sailed through it with my very abstract thinking. If she thinks of calculus as more akin to poetry than to physics, I think she'll find it much easier.

If she is musical (you mentioned band as one of her activities, right?), she may find Calc II a lot easier than most engineers do!

I, too lived in the world of men...both in school and then in my career (up until recently) as an EE. It is an adjustment for sure, but one that once you make it, can serve you well in your career for many years to come. Socially, it's really a challenge (even as an adult), so I feel for the women who do this as traditional age students. I didn't find my math/science calling until I was almost 30, so it was quite a bit different for me than it would be for an 18 year old!

Something she should keep in mind - with very few exceptions, all of the women engineers I know have done very well in their careers. Some stayed on the technical side and many went on to do other things with their engineering degrees, but both groups have been very successful. I don't know if it's a testament to the type of personality a woman would have to choose engineering in the first place or if is related to learning to survive in a male-dominated field...but the women who stick it out, do well. That said, many don't stick it out. Of all the people I know who dropped out of the engineering school for some other major - more than 1/2 of them were women. And I wasn't even at a particularly tough school, either!

That said, her boyfriend's parents sound like crazy people and I think she is very, very lucky to have a mom like you!