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Yesterday, a busy Sunday, I was riding on a trail around one of the beautiful Minnesota lakes. When I came to the beach area, I had to stop and walk my bike around an elderly lady whose dog was on a very long leash. The leash went entirely across the trail. The dog was very large. When I stopped and walked around I politely suggested she may want to pull her dog to her side for safety when she sees roller skaters or bicycles coming toward her. I won't bother to tell you her reply.
:mad:
i hate retractoleashes.
That is no joke either. A cyclist lost his life up here a few years ago due to the EXACT circumstance. A leash across the trail, he was going down a slight curve downhill and didn't see it. Threw him over the handlebars. So sad. You were smart to walk around. It's incredible that some folks are so totally oblivious to others safety.
that's why I won't, don't use multi use trails or paths to ride on. If you are a road biker you belong on the road or somewhere that is not being used by walkers, runners, etc. People are just too oblivious and everyone feels that they are as justified in using the trail however they like in spite of posted rules, suggestions, Because they are safe from traffic, they become oblivious. good for you for taking responsibility for your own safety.
Even though there is a very strict leash law in our community, people constantly let the little darlings (two foot and four foot) run amuck on the paths that lace the area. I walk two small dogs, one of whom is dog aggressive and non retractable leashes, since I figure I have as much right to the path as the next taxpayer/resident. Yes people get upset with me when I put my dogs in sit and yell at them to please get their damned dogs under control or come get their babies before I sic my dogs on them. I get really tired of being the only one in the area who is constantly driven off paths by the behavior of other peoples dogs and children. Don't even get me started on the teenage boys and their skateboards, who appear out of nowhere and yell at me to "move, move, move!" as I drag the dogs off onto the grass.
sorry for the vent and thread hijack.
Nope, I totally agree with you, Marni. We don't have a lot of paths here, but I generally avoid them like the plague. I rode one last week, with a friend, which was just OK.
Of course, I have often dealt with the dog issue on the road. We also have a strict leash law, which the people in my neighborhood think doesn't apply to them. Then there are the by laws we have regarding dogs at our neighborhood pond/beach. The rule is, no, they are not allowed. Yet, people continue to let their dogs swim in the water and romp around by the shore.
Because of this, I've been to the pond only 3 times this summer.
I use the MUP only to get to the road I ride out. It's about 2 miles of path that I use and it's ridiculous, the things I see on the trail. The trail goes through a subdivision, it's literally in the back yard of hundreds of people with young children who dart on and off the path. Most often, I see groups of two or three people (usually women friends walking in the mornings) who string across the path and give no room for people to pass. I just go slow, call out "on your left", thank them and don't say anything else, usually.
The one time I did say something was at the bottom of a steep hill on a sharp curve where there was a group of women just standing all across the path, talking - no room whatsoever to go around them. I was going up the hill, not down, thankfully. I said something like, "Cyclists, rollerbladers and skaters come down this hill and can't see anyone in this spot. Perhaps if you need to stop and spread out, doing so to the side of the trail would be safer for everyone." Boy did I get told off. It's the cyclists' responsibility to not run into them, yadda, yadda, yadda. I tried explaining that even if a bike is going slow, they can't been seen and it's a hazard, but they didn't want to hear it.
I really wish people would get fined for improper use of the trails. Then again, I've had my doors blown off by jerk cyclists going 20mph on the trails with no regard whatsoever for other people. So, I guess it goes both ways - inconsiderate walkers/dog owners/parents and inconsiderate cyclists. How hard is it to just think of others?
For multi-use paths to work, people have to share and be respectful of others. Unfortunately, that's asking an awful lot of some people.
I use our trails regularly. Ours are labeled with signs that say "Bike Path." However, city laws, if you look them up, say that they're for use by bicycles and pedestrians, dogs are allowed, and there is a 10 mph speed limit unless otherwise designated. Our city also has a leash law, but a lot of people think it doesn't apply to them "as long as" (insert excuse here). I use the trails for bicycling, running and walking my dog. It seems pretty obvious to me that with others on the trail, you have to be mindful of their going faster or slower, etc. and work around it, and that a little courtesy (ie., sometimes stepping to the side, or completely off of the path to allow room for others) makes it more pleasant for everyone.
But there are a lot of self-centered jerks who only think about what they get out of it. "Bikes are supposed to yield to pedestrians" (so my kids and I can block the whole path), or bikes that blow past from behind without giving any warning, and runners that wear their stupid earbuds which block out all (or some) of what's going on around them (the "one-budd'ers" think it's o.k. to just shut out "some" - ).
I'd rather use the path because "sharing" the road with cars is a lot more intimidating. If only it were possible to fix stupid -
Riding on a bike path is really no different than riding on the road in the sense that you still have to be aware of your surroundings. Just like in the road, you can't assume that anyone is watching out for you, you have to watch for yourself. People's unwillingness/ignorance to "share the path" is no different than people's unwillingness/ignorance to sharing the road. The difference now is that you are the fast traffic, not the cars. That said, the bike path is no place for a cyclist to "train". Consider it a recreational ride and enjoy the scenery.
Yeah, those things should be illegal. I say this as a dog owner -- they are a horrible way to walk/train your dog, there is potential for injury to both person and dog, not to mention that dogs who are on them are often so hyper that my dog is all too happy to steer clear of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Shared paths are just that. I don't expect to control what others do....that just gets me frustrated! That’s why I usually don’t ride on paths used by walkers/casual users. I also always ride defensively on any route I’m on. As I walked around her I would have asked how she would feel being held financially liable for the damage and pain and suffering her actions caused a cyclist and left it at that.
I don't get the hate on retractable leads. Sure, there are people who don't use them appropriately, but that goes for bicycles, cars and strollers too. I can reel in a dog faster and more securely on a retractable lead than I could on a 4' fixed lead (AND still have my other hand free for carrying something, holding a child's hand, or walking another dog) - which, 4' of fixed lead is more than long enough to cause problems for cyclists and runners. I surely don't expect people on the MUPs to be walking their dogs on show leads.
I think a lot of people use retractable leads because they think that they will tire their dog out by letting the dog run circles around them, instead of just taking a longer walk and teaching the dog how to walk properly without pulling. I was absolutely guilty of this when I was a new dog owner. I have two instances of near-injury with these things:
1. When I was learning how to walk my dog, maybe that first couple of weeks, I tried this because I wanted to walk the dog less (he's really my husband's dog) and have more time for cycling. There was a moment when we were in a park, dog saw a squirrel and took off at breakneck speed, all the while the leash is letting out more line. This is a 50-lb dog running at top speed. Me, 110-lbs and standing still. I had to make a quick decision to either hold onto the lead cartridge or let it go -- because either the dog was going to pull my arm out, or if I let go the cartridge would get caught on something and the dog would get hurt at the neck, or the dog would stop running and the cartridge would retract and hit him in the head. I quickly fixed the lead length as best I could and let go. Thankfully neither of us got hurt.
2. About 6 months later my dog was impeccable on a 6' leash. While out on a walk, we slowed to exchange greetings with a random other dog walker walking two small hyper dogs on retracto-leashes coming the other way. One of the little dogs proceeded to run circles around my dog, resulting in two wraps of very thin line around my dog's neck. Thankfully I was able to untangle him before the line got tightened around his neck. Henceforth, when I see someone with this type of lead, I will go out of my way to stay out of their range. My dog already had enough trauma before we adopted him, he doesn't need any more from people who don't know how to handle their dogs. This is why I hate retractable leashes.
Kajero, I pretty much avoid the multi-use trails around the Twin Cities during the summer months, especially the ones around the lakes, for just this reason. There are far too many self-centered idiots on those trails and it's just not worth it. The roads - especially wide-shouldered or with bike lanes - are safer for a cyclist. I do wander over to those trails in early spring (but not this year!) and late fall as then I can enjoy the scenery without being worried about the hordes of clueless wonders. ;)
I feel like I can train the dogs better with the retractable lead. I can keep it shorter and keep the dog closer to me without cutting the circulation off to my fingertips by . But it does require looking ahead of time to reel the dog in when the situation might warrant (which, in our case, is any other animal, a street, or a person working in the yard - to name only few).Quote:
Originally Posted by OakLeaf
Blame the owner, not the equipment. (Just like inconsiderate cyclists - it's not cycling, it's the rider.)
It is not just multi-use trails that are abused by ignorant ______..... Our fav IMBA built trails are in a park that boasts multi-use trails and BIKE ONLY (freeride features); both clearly marked by signs and on the trail maps. Twice I have screamed around a berm to find hikers sauntering near the bottom of a jump! Additionally, last week -there was an older couple walking up and down a seesaw... it would be funny except as I explained to them...the young adult males who fly past here are going WAY faster than I....and when they cream you whose fault is it? The signs say "biking only!"
Why the hate on retracto leashes? Here's why:Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmyguys
If a dog is trained properly to heel on a slack leash, there should never ever be problems with circulation getting cut off in the hands. These days, I see that very very few dogs trained to walk at heel on a slack leash. They are either pulling on a 6' leash, pulling and running all over on a retracto leash, or they are wearing a haltie type muzzle that prevents them from pulling. Whatever happened to just training the dog how to walk on a leash? Don't tell me it's difficult - I took a Malamute to ribbons in obedience many years ago, and that is a kind of dog that is born to pull.
You shouldn't have to "reel him in when the situation warrants". A well trained dog focuses on his owner, not all the other stuff happening around them. Or, they know it's happening but they focus on the trainer, not the squirrel.
/rant off.
All I'm saying is that it's a different sort of training. I don't see why one way is better than the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
Sorry you're having a bad day.
When I took my terrier puppy to puppy kindergarten we were not allowed to bring retractable leashes. I think for good reason. I do not even use them until my dogs are about 1 year or walk nicely on a regular lead BUT, I like them and will continue to use them. They do lock in place and can be set at certain lengths.
I like to use them on walks to give the dogs a little more freedom to explore. I would never let either of my dogs off leash and the retractable ones give them a bit more freedom. I think if used responsibly, there is nothing wrong with them.
There is a time and place for them and the MUP on a busy summer day is NOT it.. People just need to use their brains LOL
But the streets around the lakes are busy with people driving who looking at the lakes and not paying any mind to anyone else who might be on the street or even crossing it! I guess nothing is safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norse
Heh, I thought about this thread on my way into work this morning. There is a short part of my commute where bicycles are not allowed on the road and there is a MUP on both sides of the road for us to use. I'm only on it for maybe a quarter mile before I get to my office parking lot so typically, it's no big deal. Today there was a guy walking two dogs, very slowly, almost shuffling. Both dogs were on long leashes (probably more than 6' which is what we use) and kind if milling about the guys feet. They were all definitely taking up the whole path.
I slowed down to a crawl, yelled 'cyclist passing on your left!' and waited for a response. Nothing. As I got closer, I said it again and again, zero movement from the guy. Luckily, the dogs chose to acknowledge me the second time and moved closer to him so that I could pass. When I did, I could hear music...so clearly he couldn't hear me. So aggravating! Thank heaven for sensible dogs!
There were two other cyclists behind me that I'd passed not to long previous, so hopefully he kind of woke up and paid attention after I passed.
Yet another reason I hate most MUP's.
We have at lot of MUPs here and I have the same problem with the leashes, however it all boils down to the person on the other end of the leash. I walk my dog on a retracto leash and love it, but I am also very careful to pull him in when a cyclist or jogger approach. As a walker there is nothing that makes me madder that a cyclist that is going 20 MPH on a MUP except maybe a line of them from the local club, slow down and save it for the streets. As a cyclist on our MUPs there is nothing more frustrating to me than people who aren't responsible with their kids or pets. Can we use leashes on children? If your kid is walking or riding please explain that running out in front of a cyclist to see if they can "beat them across" can get everyone killed. I am not a cyclist that whizzes past you at 20 MPH, but there is no need to have your 3 kids covering the entire path leaving no room for other walkers/joggers or cyclist. I agree there are rude cyclist on the trail that even other cyclist like myself hate because they give the rest of us a bad public image. Mutual respect is what is needed where everyone can enjoy the MUPs. But I do wish we could fix stupid.
I'm not a fan of those extender leashes at all. When my dog was a puppy a woman in my neighborhood was yammering away on a cell phone while walking a german shepherd on one of those. He charged us and she couldn't hang on. My puppy wasn't injured, he did a lot of yipping and it really scared me. I jumped in the middle and picked him up which was a big crazy but it all happened so fast. A man driving by stopped and helped me out while this crazy neighbor just screamed at her dog with no affect. I blame that incident on my dog having some fear aggressive issues that I've been working with him on with a dog trainer pretty much since.
so no not a fan
I nearly creamed two beagles coming around a blind corner on a mup one day. The person "walking" them was on a bike and didn't even have the leashes drawn in, despite the fact that it was a busy weekend afternoon. Luckily, I always slow right down and ring my bell for this particular corner as it's a sharp one.
That said, most dog owners hear seem to have more sense. When I ride to the pool before work, part of the route goes through a dog park. Yesterday my headlight picked up matching reflective vests on a german shepherd and it's owner long before I got to them.