When paceline pullers don't point out road hazards...

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05-16-2013, 08:15 AM
zoom-zoom

When paceline pullers don't point out road hazards...

...2 riders can end up injured and bikes damaged/destroyed. Ask me how I know this...?

So Tues. night I joined a regular women's ride that I've frequented for >3 years. There is one particular rider who I don't really care for. She is aggressive, blows up the pace when she's in the lead, is arrogant, condescending, and makes snide little comments re: people's bikes, pace, experience, age, etc. I think she's in her 60s and a very experienced rider, but a horrible group rider. She's been known to drop only partway back after pulls to chat with one of the few riders she has deemed "cool," thus creating a hazard when the next rider to drop back doesn't know she's there (but she'll make a snide comment when said rider "gets in her way."

<1.5 miles into our ride (I believe there were 6 of us) our group experienced a crash involving me (the last rider in the line) and the rider immediately in front of me. My friend hit a several foot long length of what appeared to be some sort of white irrigation cable. It tangled in her frame and wheels and sent her screeching to a halt. Before I knew what was happening we were both on the ground. Her bike is totaled, with the carbon frame broken in at least one place (seat stay for sure and possibly a full break in the top tube, as well). My left shifter ended up destroyed and I'm quite covered in scrapes and massive bruises. How neither of us were more seriously hurt is really amazing. There was a car behind us that reacted fast, pulled in behind us and put her hazards on until she was sure we were both OK. I feel really bad that anyone had to witness this -- seeing a crash like this does nothing to advance our sport or make people feel safe about riding.

I was too in shock to really react appropriately, as that little biotch deserved a major tongue-lashing. She never apologized, but suddenly became quite over-the-top friendly and accommodating. In hindsight I really wish I'd have let loose with all of the 4-letter words and feelings that have built-up over the years, culminating in what could have been deadly to 2 of us. The other women on the ride all said they never saw her point-out the hose, either. That only 2 of us went down is damned lucky!! When I got home my DH was absolutely livid. Had he been there I doubt this woman would ever return to a ride. He's super mild-mannered, but when someone does something so irresponsible and dangerous on a bike he will not bite his tongue, ever.

So, yeah, now my Tuesday nights are free to ride solo or with trusted people. Pity, since most of the women on this ride are nice, but as long as she's riding the rest of the line takes their lives into their hands. AFAIK the ride leader has not reprimanded this woman. As ride leader that's her job (and this leader nearly caused an accident of her own last week when she rode out from a parking lot in front of an oncoming rider to her left--this group is just too dangerous). All it takes is one bad rider to ruin a good time. Really not worth the 35 minute drive each way.
05-16-2013, 08:53 AM
thekarens

Re: When paceline pullers don't point out road hazards...

Wow, glad you survived.

I ride with the new riders and we never ride paceline, but everyone is always instructed before each ride to call out/point out hazards to the riders behind them.
05-16-2013, 09:11 AM
Trek420

Wow. I think she owes you both a bike, and a beer, and an apology.
05-16-2013, 09:45 AM
OakLeaf

Hoo, boy. Glad you're not hurt worse. There are riders I won't ride behind, and groups I won't ride with, for similar reasons. You can talk to them all you like and it's like it doesn't apply to them. Heal up quick.
05-16-2013, 09:49 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trek420

Wow. I think she owes you both a bike, and a beer, and an apology.

She actually had the nerve to tell my friend that it "isn't really all that expensive to replace a frame." Can you believe that sh!t?!
05-16-2013, 09:50 AM
thekarens

Re: When paceline pullers don't point out road hazards...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

she actually had the nerve to tell my friend that it "isn't really all that expensive to replace a frame." can you believe that sh!t?!

omg!!!!
05-16-2013, 09:51 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Hoo, boy. Glad you're not hurt worse. There are riders I won't ride behind, and groups I won't ride with, for similar reasons. You can talk to them all you like and it's like it doesn't apply to them. Heal up quick.

You know, I have to wonder how many other accidents she's caused in her decades of riding? I've not failed to mention her name to people when they ask about the big road rash on my left leg and shoulder. If she were a drunk driver I'd name names, too. Her actions are really no less risky.
05-16-2013, 09:52 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by thekarens

omg!!!!

For realz. I was still so stunned from the trauma of the crash that I couldn't even craft a response to that...I mean, what response is there, really?!
05-16-2013, 10:18 AM
smilingcat

Reading about the crash is making me super angry too!! It's not just the arrogant out of control rider but the leader too. Both don't deserve to be riding in a pace line. They need serious instruction in riding in a pace line.

I'm really sorry to hear about the accident and to the other woman whose bike was totaled. I'm sure the arrogant one is not offering to pay for the damages or offer some sort of financial assistance.

The group doesn't need any new riders. They need to be on their own!! Hope it wasn't a racing club. Hate to see them in a crit or in a classic.

Heal fast to both of you! Your husband should get after the woman's husband!! And the leader's husband as well!!! :mad: :mad:
05-16-2013, 10:20 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingcat

Hope it wasn't a racing club. Hate to see them in a crit or in a classic.

Nope, just a casual group. Most of these women don't ride competitively. The group is generally more into doing tours and centuries.
05-16-2013, 10:21 AM
smilingcat

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

She actually had the nerve to tell my friend that it "isn't really all that expensive to replace a frame." Can you believe that sh!t?!

Tell the idiot that she has dug a pretty deep hole and if she keeps up this arrogant attitutde, she's gonna get sued!! I would and cause some inconvenience for the idiot!!
05-16-2013, 10:43 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by smilingcat

Tell the idiot that she has dug a pretty deep hole and if she keeps up this arrogant attitutde, she's gonna get sued!! I would and cause some inconvenience for the idiot!!

I wonder how far riders in our situation could even get with a suit. We definitely have witnesses who stated at the time that they didn't see her point at the hose. And she even said "oh, I was so far ahead that maybe the next person didn't see me point." What was she doing so far ahead that she had dropped the rest of the paceline?!
05-16-2013, 10:50 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muirenn

I honestly think you guys need to get together and politely 'disinvite' her from this group. There is no reason you shouldn't be able to ride. Have a spokesperson who is very diplomatic talk for everyone, either by email or in person.

She shouldn't be allowed to do this to anyone else. But I think all the reasons you mentioned should be pointed out to her. Both the history and the recent crash. Because maybe that will keep her from doing it in the future.

JMTC.

Hell, give me her email. I'll do it.

Ha, it's tempting!

Actually this thought had crossed my mind. One of DH's co-workers will sometimes ride with us and she's quite un-fond of this woman, as well (I suspect most of us don't like her, but have never before been in a position to discuss it). I think the biggest issue we'd run into is that she's pretty chummy with the group leader. At this point I think simply not riding with the group is a better course of action. There are so many rides all week around here that it's no challenge to find a substitute ride.
05-16-2013, 03:27 PM
Skippyak

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Nope, just a casual group. Most of these women don't ride competitively. The group is generally more into doing tours and centuries.

So why an aggressive pace line where riders don't watch out for their own hazards? Casual group and paceline don't seem to go together at all. How many other riders passed the hazard if you were at the back and the rider in front of you were the casualties? I don't ride anyone's wheel in casual ride. I really don't even know how to, in fact the last but one shop ride had the fast group led by a chick who was teaching us paceline stuff but even then a girl was riding in her clip on aeros in the line and the slow rider meant no one was really riding hard. This chick did tell us that you point out road hazards when at all possible but it was our own responsibility to watch out, it being a casual ride and not a real paceline.
05-16-2013, 06:14 PM
Owlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

She actually had the nerve to tell my friend that it "isn't really all that expensive to replace a frame." Can you believe that sh!t?!

I saw your FB post and the bruise pictures. OUCH.

And this cherry on top? I'd find a new group too. Or, since most of the rest of you get along, find a new starting point and, uh, forget to tell her.
05-17-2013, 03:15 AM
Crankin

Well, I have personal experience with 2 racers (one a pro) and both point out road hazards.
Last week, I had the unpleasurable experience of driving by a large group of riders that are part of the group I ride with on Wednesdays when I can. This group is more casual, slower, but has experienced riders, and often the faster people join them to socialize on Mondays. There is one man, who as long as I have known him just weaves everywhere. He is a terrible rider. Passing him, in a car, going up a hill was scary for me. The next week, when I went to the regular Wednesday ride, I told the ride coordinator and she took immediate action, in that I heard her discussing this with someone else. He is going to be banned from riding with the group.
05-17-2013, 05:53 AM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muirenn

We have one like this, Crankin. But the group I ride with on base is so casual, there is no ride leader, and no one is willing to talk to her. She is not usually there, but she was yesterday, and I stayed well away. But it was difficult.

This sounds similar to the group I've ridden with. There is a leader, but she's not particularly assertive...she is also chummy with the hammerhead woman who was pulling.

So the plot thickens. Immediately after the crash everyone was saying that they didn't see the debris to point it out until after they were passing it. Suddenly now the ride leader (who was behind the puller) is claiming that the puller pointed it out, as did she. There's some major butt-covering and buck-passing going on here. The ride leader even suggested that the newest rider in the group must have been the one who failed to point it out. Right...when in doubt shift blame to the person least able to defend themselves.

So, yeah, I'm done with this ride. It's not an environment I am eager to put myself into.
05-17-2013, 12:59 PM
Wasp

Zoom-zoom, so glad your not seriously injured, Geez you really could of ended up with a serious long term injury. (Not to minimize the pain and discomfort of road rash)
How did your wrist manage the fall? Hopefully it didn't get re injured.
That "ride leader" sounds like a bully. Is there anyone higher up that you could talk to and explain your concerns regarding her behaviour and comments and how inappropriate it is?
Not sure if the USA has the same pink movement. In Canada pink shirts are worn as a anti-bullying statement.
You should start up your own "pink" ride ;)
05-17-2013, 07:18 PM
zoom-zoom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasp

Zoom-zoom, so glad your not seriously injured, Geez you really could of ended up with a serious long term injury. (Not to minimize the pain and discomfort of road rash)
How did your wrist manage the fall? Hopefully it didn't get re injured.
That "ride leader" sounds like a bully. Is there anyone higher up that you could talk to and explain your concerns regarding her behaviour and comments and how inappropriate it is?
Not sure if the USA has the same pink movement. In Canada pink shirts are worn as a anti-bullying statement.
You should start up your own "pink" ride ;)

Wrist was good, thankfully. I fell on the other side, but most of what suffered damage were shoulder, hip, and lower leg/knee. It happened too fast to do the sort of hand-out to stop myself that nets riders wrist injuries.

The ride leader isn't the bully...the bully was the one who happened to be pulling. Unfortunately the ride leader is a friend of hers (and I think probably too scared to make waves with that little Napoleon Complex woman). Now she is even covering for the woman. It defies reason.