OT: Slob

Hi all

Ok, this is off topic but someone has to help me out here. My boyfriend is a freaking SLOB. We've lived together for about 5 years, though we started out as roommates (yeah...that whole story). We've dated for a little over 3 years.

He appears to be mentally retarded when it comes to picking his stuff up around the house. I've tried multiple tactics to get him to help me, but usually what happens is I just do it while getting more and more ticked off. We've had discussions about it, and I've adjusted my "approach" to try not to get naggy about it but "ask nicely." But after a while, I just completely lose it. And let me clarify, the man isn't lazy. He'll spend hours in the garage working on his car. We're not even going to get into what the garage looks like because he works on his car for 9 hours at a time some days. But given the proper task, he sure can become motivated. Just not when it comes to my house. I once told him to pretend it was his car so he'd respect it more. I also tried the whole "if you cared" bit. I've asked nicely - "please can you help with...." And I've not spoken to him for days. The last one seemed to work the best, but isn't my ideal way of dealing with things in life.

For example, this week is really insane for me so I asked him on Sunday to "help me out around the house this week." I come home tonight and there's mail all over the counter, which was added to the other mail that had been added to the counter the past 2 days. His laundry is still sitting on the dining room table. Nothing has been picked up. I'm not asking for a lot here, just to keep the place somewhat uncluttered. I'm by far not a neat freak, and it takes quite a bit for me to lose it. And then when I do get mad, he gets mad at me. Basically in my mind it gets turned around so I'm the bad guy. I rarely raise my voice in life. In fact the only times I get mad at him are because of cleaning.

So I get home after being gone for 12 hours and lose it. Which included throwing a glass into the sink, which subsequently shattered. He then asks me when I'm going to clean up the glass. I'm now locked in our bedroom and told him I'd talk to him when the house was clean. The last time I got this mad I didn't speak to him for 3 days. Needless to say things got picked up.

So the point of this tirade of mine is - HOW DO YOU GET A MAN TO PICK HIS @$#!@*(% up?!?!?!?!?! :mad: :mad: :mad:

A friend of mine sent me this class list today. Looks like you may need to enroll him in a few. :p

But seriously, no nag. Stay away from the nag (but it sounds like you're already trying to do that...just resist the urge). I'll search my brain for how I used to deal with this sort of stuff before my DH eventually "got it". I think for a while there I made him do his own laundry. Eventually he had me show him how to work the washing machine. :rolleyes: That was a verrrrry long time ago...

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WINTER CLASSES FOR MEN AT THE LEARNING CENTER FOR ADULTS

REGISTRATION MUST BE COMPLETED BY Monday, Feb. 13, 2006

NOTE: DUE TO THE COMPLEXITY AND DIFFICULTY LEVEL OF THEIR CONTENTS, CLASS SIZES WILL BE LIMITED TO 8 PARTICIPANTS MAXIMUM.


Class 1
How To Fill Up The Ice Cube Trays --- Step by Step, with Slide Presentation.
Meets 4 weeks, Monday and Wednesday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM.

Class 2
The Toilet Paper Roll --- Does It Change Itself?
Round Table Discussion.
Meets 2 weeks, Saturday 12:00 for 2 hours.

Class 3
Is It Possible To Urinate Using The Technique Of Lifting The Seat and
Avoiding The Floor, Walls and Nearby Bathtub? --- Group Practice.
Meets 4 weeks, Saturday 10:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 4
Fundamental Differences Between The Laundry Hamper and The Floor ---
Pictures and Explanatory Graphics.
Meets Saturdays at 2:00 PM for 3 weeks.

Class 5
After Dinner Dishes --- Can They Levitate and Fly Into The Kitchen Sink?
Examples on Video.
Meets 4 weeks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning
at 7:00 PM

Class 6
Loss Of Identity --- Losing The Remote To Your Significant Other.
Help Line Support and Support Groups.
Meets 4 Weeks, Friday and Sunday 7:00 PM

Class 7
Learning How To Find Things --- Starting With Looking In The Right Places
And Not Turning The House Upside Down While Screaming.
Open Forum .
Monday at 8:00 PM, 2 hours.

Class 8
Health Watch --- Bringing Her Flowers Is Not Harmful To Your Health.
Graphics and Audio Tapes.
Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 9
Real Men Ask For Directions When Lost --- Real Life Testimonials.
Tuesdays at 6:00 PM Location to be determined.

Class 10
Is It Genetically Impossible To Sit Quietly While She Parallel Parks?
Driving Simulations.
4 weeks, Saturday's noon, 2 hours.

Class 11
Learning to Live --- Basic Differences Between Mother and Wife.
Online Classes and role-playing .
Tuesdays at 7:00 PM, location to be determined

Class 12
How to be the Ideal Shopping Companion
Relaxation Exercises, Meditation and Breathing Techniques.
Meets 4 weeks, Tuesday and Thursday for 2 hours beginning at 7:00 PM.

Class 13
How to Fight Cerebral Atrophy --- Remembering Birthdays, Anniversaries and Other Important Dates and Calling When You're Going To Be Late.
Cerebral Shock Therapy Sessions and Full Lobotomies Offered.
Three nights; Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7:00 PM for 2 hours.

Class 14
The Stove/Oven --- What It Is and How It Is Used.
Live Demonstration.
Tuesdays at 6:00 PM, location to be determined.

Upon completion of any of the above courses, diplomas will be issued to the survivors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by betagirl

So the point of this tirade of mine is - HOW DO YOU GET A MAN TO PICK HIS @$#!@*(% up?!?!?!?!?! :mad: :mad: :mad:

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The thing I did which worked instantly with hubby (never had any major problems after that) is to tell him that if he doen't pick up "whatever" of the couch or table or wherever... its going in the trash. My hubby thought it was a joke one day and I threw away one of his favorite shirts, magazines, dirty clothes, etc. It worked! ;) He was furious but I got my point across very well.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe bag everything up in one of those big garbage bags? If you don't want to actually throw anything away, just stash it in the garage or a closet.

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Originally Posted by Hell-uv-a-job

The thing I did which worked instantly with hubby (never had any major problems after that) is to tell him that if he doen't pick up "whatever" of the couch or table or wherever... its going in the trash. My hubby thought it was a joke one day and I threw away one of his favorite shirts, magazines, dirty clothes, etc. It worked! ;) He was furious but I got my point across very well.

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Wow. This is HILARIOUS Yellow, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I am quite happy to realize that currently I don't feel like my boyfriend should attend any of these, except maybe classes 7 and 14. Having been with boys should could benefit from more than half of these, I feel grateful today.

As for your problem Betagirl... I have no idea. In a way you maybe just have different level of tolerance to clutter/dirt. But if it becomes fundamental, maybe it's a relationship issue.

:p Fabulous list. We need to enroll my hubby in:

Class 7
Learning How To Find Things --- Starting With Looking In The Right Places
How about just keeping your glasses on your face or in a pocket at all times? Why should we have to look for your glasses before we ever start looking for [insert item here].

Class 10
Is It Genetically Impossible To Sit Quietly While She Parallel Parks?It is amazing how many male friends and co-workers have complimented me on my parallel driving. But, Bubba? No, he has to direct the whole time so, of course, I screw up.

Thank goodness he is perfect is all other ways (or I've just sunk to the same level of slobdom).:p

Either fortunately or unfortunately, Lee and I are both slobs of roughly equivalent magnitude.

You should see the frenzied cleaning runs we do when we have people over. Which is why we don't have people over often...

Best of luck, betagirl. Sorry I can't be of any help to you here. :o

I hate to say it, but I don't think you can make someone change if they don't want to, even nicely. I think if you keep nagging and yelling and doing the silent treatment, he may eventually choose to find someone who better tolerates his slobbiness.

You could hire a maid and bill him for it! (They really aren't that expensive, and are _so_ worth it. I went through a couple year period of being able to afford that, with a BF that thought cleaning was not his job, though he was far from messy.)

Nanci

Yellow - those are hilarious.

Thanks everyone for the tips, kind words, etc. I'm actually planning on hiring a cleaning lady when we move because I'm beginning to have less and less time to keep up with it. If I worked a "normal" schedule and had more free time I'd not be so annoyed. I specifically lost it yesterday because I asked him nicely earlier in the week to help me, which he agreed to do. When I walked in yesterday and he was sitting on the couch I started by repeating what we'd agreed on. Instead of getting a "jeez I'm sorry" or anything similar, he acted like what the house looked like wasn't a big deal. That just got me more annoyed, and when I picked up the glass that'd been on the coffee table for 2 days and saw the kitchen it was over. He's explained to me he doesn't respond to being yelled at, which I understand. Nobody wants to be yelled at. And I try really hard to not get to that point. What I don't understand is I'm not the type to yell, and he knows this. So he knows when it gets to this point, I'm REAL angry. All I'm hoping for is a compromise, but whenever he does figure out that I'm getting tired of it nothing sticks for very long.

I've actually threatened to throw his stuff out. I also threatened to pile it in his car because that's his pride and joy :D But I've never done it. I think today I'll put all of it in bags and stash it somewhere. He needs to attend the "how to look for stuff" class so he'll never find it :p

What sucks about this is this is the only thing we fight about. We have a fantastic relationship with a drama quotient of 0. So this is just stupid. Part of me thinks that he figures I'll get over it and resume cleaning up. What really annoys me is I'm a grad student in psychology, and I *know* what's supposed to work. My prof's say you'll never be able to apply it to your own life because of the emotional factors involved in personal relationships. Why do they have to be right?

Thanks for letting me b*tch :D

You could do what the woman a few weeks ago on the Today show did. She packed all the kids and Hubbies stuff up that they didn't pick up and sold it all on ebay. The woman who bought the whole lot for 400 dollars offered to give it all back but the mom said No it would never get her point across so they donated everything to charity. They asked her if she still has this problem and she says they all pick up now.
However, this may end a relationship. I like Nanci's idea. Hire someone to do it.

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Originally Posted by Hell-uv-a-job

The thing I did which worked instantly with hubby (never had any major problems after that) is to tell him that if he doen't pick up "whatever" of the couch or table or wherever... its going in the trash. My hubby thought it was a joke one day and I threw away one of his favorite shirts, magazines, dirty clothes, etc. It worked! ;) He was furious but I got my point across very well.

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I did the same thing with a college roommate, she would leave dishes in the sink until they were moldy...I started giving her three days, then into the dumpster they went. This happened a half dozen times until she realized I was serious. :D

My parents actually used the trash bag method on me when I was a child and I have to admit it worked. So that's not a bad approach.

I would also suggest that you sit down and assign very specific things for him to do - like cleaning the bathroom every saturday morning, or you cook dinner and he cleans the dishes. Just vaguely telling him to do more around the house may not work if he has a different standard of what are acceptable living conditions. It wouldn't solve the day-to-day problems of leaving a shirt in the middle of the floor, but it might make you less angry if you felt he was contributing more. However, whatever you do has to be an agreement - not a one-sided demand - in order for it to work.

Good luck.

Are you sure you're not dating my BF? It sounds so like him a few months ago. I met him 5 years ago and we both had our own places. Mine was tidy like a Japanese garden, his was a stinky brothel. We moved in together 4 years ago and things declined in the cleaning dept. I tried not cleaning and did not work; I tried yelling and (duh!!!) did not work, I tried asking nicely and did not work. This year I took off to prepare for GRE, Gradchool aps, etc... So he's out working and I'm in the house and take care of much of the cleaning...All I demand from him is 1) keep things clean; it shows respect for my house work; 2) when I ask you for a chore, do not do it at your leisure (i.e., a month later), do it NOW. I tried in the past discussing my worries with him. I told him (and I firmly believe this) that doing 1) and 2) is a way of showing love and respect in our everyday dealings. He told me that being "messy" was his nature, which is a bunch of bull. Eventually sh$t his the fan for a different reason and the issue was brought up again and this time it clicked. We had a serious discussion about how what he call "little things" matter and are the meat and bones of a relationship. I made him understand that his disregard for 1) and 2) was equivalent to me blowing his salary on heels. So, my advice is to have a serious conversation that would make him understand the magnitude of the issue.
Good luck!

Is it possible you're over reacting?

Speaking from personal experience, stress causes me to wig out over the littlest things. I think it's because I can't tell the people who are really causing me the stress how I feel about them, so I bring it home and unload it all on Thom periodically. :(

V.

I have a husband and 3 boys. They honestly don't see the same things you do. I think you might have some luck if you were to make a list of things that had to be done on a regular basis around the house, then ask him to choose some he would do.

Doing this really helped my relationship. My husband didn't really want to piss me off, but he really didn't see the same things I did. By being specific and externalizing it via the list, we were able to share the tasks.

Just an idea.

The trash/giving to charity idea is great, but you have to actually do it, maybe several times. You can't just say you'll do it and then not follow through.

If that doesn't work, then I'd have to agree that there's more to it than simple differences in housekeeping habits. It's a respect thing, and may well have deeper roots. You're the psychology scholar, so I'll let you deal with the fall out from that!

One problem may be that you are using the word "help" to describe the BF's potential involvement in housekeeping. It's not a matter of him "helping" you with "your work", it's a matter of him understanding that half of the housework belongs to him by right.

Determine which places in the house are shared; let him have a place in which to be a slob. Don't touch that place. Also, if you have two bathrooms -- one for each of you -- then YOU must have the bathroom that guests also use. You will keep that one clean, and he will bathe in squalor. When he gets disgusted enough, he will clean it. (Women always screw up on this one. "Why do you clean his bathroom and then get mad about it?" "Because it's the one that the guests use." Trade!)

Follow through on all threats. In other words, if you say you are going to pitch anything left around, pitch it.

I have three brothers, and I was the household maid. I have no sympathy for women who wuss out in this area, and then complain. We must be tough! I did not clean my brothers' rooms. I did do the laundry, and the rule was, what is in the hamper gets washed; what's on the floor gets ignored. Personal stuff left in the common area (i.e., living room) gets THROWN into the personal bedroom, regardless of how it might fall or what it might hit.

For the common space, make some ground rules and stick to them, but -- and this is very important -- make sure you give him his own space in which to be as foul as he likes.

During one year of college I shared a house with my brother. He would leave the kitchen and bathroom a mess. When we had an argument about it, he pointed out that he did his own laundry. I pointed out that he didn't get credit for cleaning his own dirt no matter where it was. You only get credit for cleaning someone else's dirt.

My husband likes to say (and bless his heart for it) that we have an equal opportunity marriage. Equal opportunity to iron our own clothes, polish our own shoes, do the laundry, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by betagirl

I've actually threatened to throw his stuff out. I also threatened to pile it in his car because that's his pride and joy :D But I've never done it. I think today I'll put all of it in bags and stash it somewhere. He needs to attend the "how to look for stuff" class so he'll never find it :p

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Piling works for me. We share the cars, so I don't put them there, but I leave them at the end of the table he eats at or on top of his dresser. Eventually he'll go through it and deal with everything (usually when he needs to find something). In the meantime, if companies coming over it's easy to pick up a pile and put it in a grocery bag or two.

I always think its interesting that people move in together than one party begins complaining about the other and wants to change them. He is what he is just as you are what you are. The whole purpose of dating is to get to know someone, good habits and bad, and decide then if this is the person worth spending your life with. If his slobbiness is a deal breaker for you then you both need to move on because there is no changing him.

My suggestion, if to you he is worth keeping, then just get into the habit of picking up after him and doing the cleaning. Unfair, yes, but this is what you chose. Accept it or move on.

Suggestion: read Dr. Laura's book "Care and Feeding of Husbands". Assigning chores, you know will do nothing. Treating him like a little boy (which obviously he likes and acts that way), and being his mommy and telling him what to do will get old fast. Move on, find an adult male, know what you want and make sure he meets that criteria before moving in with him. It's not worth the nagging and anger every day 'cause he is really not what you want.

PS: Since you started out as roommates you should have known beforehand he was a slob. So why complain about it now???

Why don't you make him a really cute little chore chart with stickers? If he complains that it's immature, well...?

Good luck!

Oh yeah... treat him like he's 8... that'll teach him! :rolleyes:

My husbands pour all the trash from his drawers and car into a trash bag and tells me he will take care of it later. One day I looked into one of the closets and found 3 full bags of papers and "things" for lack of a better word. I asked him nicely to clean it several times until I dumped the 3 full bags (which happened to have a few important documents). He got the point although I must confess I think I went a little bit too far on that one but had fun in the process :).
The trash bag method do work only if you DO DISPOSE of what needs to be put away. Putting things in bags and place it somewhere is like cleaning his stuff. It won't do a thing. Let him miss his favorite shirt and when he ask you where it is tell him you trashed it cause he did not put it away :p :D. He won't be happy but hey... he was warned.

Whenever you start getting angry about doing "his work" you should also consider the things he does for you and puts up with. Partnership is really a give and take and this is really apparent when it comes to chores. I can't remember the last time I had to do any work in OUR yard, and yet DH doesn't complain to mother nature when she scatters leaves all over the place, even hours after he raked up her last mess, so I pile up his papers and clothes so he knows where to look. I was also the one who really wanted a dog, yet he patiently cleans up after him whenever he needs to mow the lawn. He puts up with my apparent mental block against closing things all the way and I help his drink cans make it all the way to the recycle bin.

Good point Deanna! I regularly thank my DH for "putting up with me". And he usually responds with "Well, thanks for putting up with me too."

Relationships have so many hurdles, and good times come a go and come and go. Maybe this is one of those "go" times. I think many others have given you lots to consider in this thread. Hang in there and know that this is really only a fraction of your time together. Focus on why you love him in the first place. Those negative emotions take so much out of us and are so easy to focus on because of that. Whatever the outcome, focus on the good!

Deanna and Yellow - WORD!!!

That's it in a nutshell - it's a give and take, so pick up the guys dirty undies... I have to assume he does do good things for you or puts what with your nonsense at times otherwise why would you stay with him?

And I don't agree with the throw stuff away thing. What if he did that to you? Would piss you off wouldn't it? It's a matter of leading by example. So put hampers and trash cans in every room and use them yourself. If he doesn't then at last it's close by for you to put away his stuff. Life is too short to be pissed about something so insignificant.

I know you've already got all the feedback you need, but....

My slobs really respond to written lists. And, yes, when you are stressed out, all you really want is to come home to some order and feel like home is a place of calm control.

I like Katherine Hepburn's idea that men and women were never meant to live together, just to visit each other! My sister has one room in the house he's not allowed to enter (like Bluebeard's closet) and that's her sanity room.

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Originally Posted by bcipam

I always think its interesting that people move in together than one party begins complaining about the other and wants to change them. He is what he is just as you are what you are. The whole purpose of dating is to get to know someone, good habits and bad, and decide then if this is the person worth spending your life with. If his slobbiness is a deal breaker for you then you both need to move on because there is no changing him.

My suggestion, if to you he is worth keeping, then just get into the habit of picking up after him and doing the cleaning. Unfair, yes, but this is what you chose. Accept it or move on.

Suggestion: read Dr. Laura's book "Care and Feeding of Husbands". Assigning chores, you know will do nothing. Treating him like a little boy (which obviously he likes and acts that way), and being his mommy and telling him what to do will get old fast. Move on, find an adult male, know what you want and make sure he meets that criteria before moving in with him. It's not worth the nagging and anger every day 'cause he is really not what you want.

PS: Since you started out as roommates you should have known beforehand he was a slob. So why complain about it now???

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Wow, way to be helpful there bcipam. :rolleyes: Let's see, it's her fault for expecting him to grow into the roll of an adult companion (notice I said "grow" like most adults are apt to do) and adapt to life with a partner. Then suggest she just kick him to the curb OR pick up after him because he's not going to change. Oh and shame on her for "complaining" about it here where she just came to vent a little among other women. :confused:

Somehow Dr. Laura forgot to read her own book! :confused:

One must weigh the bad and the good and see if the good outweighs the bad. Sometimes the way to deal with it is to vent to ones friends (physical or cyber) and get it all off of one's chest before being able to step back and see what the problem is, how bad it really is and what would really be helpful in the situation. That's what women do for each other.
If my bestfriend took all of my husband-bashing to heart, she would be hiring an attorney for me!

Following on from Sydney B...

if you're going to delegate/share you can't in all fairness then turn round and criticise the way it's been done. So you will have to accept that the job has been done even if you're less than happy with the result. (Within reason) And you can always give instructions beforehand or for next time (always make it clear your instruction is for "next time" and not going to be construed as a criticism of "this time" )

Most of the time tho' these things are about being over-tired oneself or feeling under-appreciated (which is usually just needing to hear it *said* in actual specific words rather than what SO and kids *actually* think of you )

This and the Lance and Sheryl Split thread have given me a few things to be thankful about...:D

I don't know if it will work for you, but this has worked well for my boyfriend and I.

I said when I moved in I that I can be a bit of a clean freak, and that my expectations might differ from his and I hoped we could work something out. So from the begining I let him know what my expectations are. His response was "I can be a bit of a clutter, but as long as you give me 1 room that I can have my way, I will make an effort on the rest".

And by truth its worked great. We each have our little "area" that can be cluttered (his the study, mine my clothes in a corner of the bedroom), yet the main traffic areas are pretty decent, and it all makes it much easier to hide/clean when company comes.

Guys hate a "bait and switch" by over-tolerating until it becomes too much, or the feeling they have to change 100% to accomidate. Try a compromise? Give him an area he can get messy with that you will accept, in exchance for areas that he must make a better effort to keep clean for your sanity. Once he realizes he doesn't have to completely change who he is to make you happy I think you'll both be sleepin better.

Make it clear that his efforts make you happier, and not just "well its about darn time", because there is no positive feedback there. If anything its a backhanded compliment if that, and thats in no way encouraging. I find my guy will do just about anything if he thinks the reward is worth it.. and ultimately guys want us happy to make them feel successful in the relationship, no? Start little, baby steps, cleanliness is a habit, not a personality trait. Start with having him help you, involve him... make it fun, make it playful.. make him realize that helping you is rewarding to both of you. Granted you can't make people do 180's but change IS possible. Like someone said, people *grow* in relationship, just gotta make sure its in the right direction. :)

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Kyna

Make it clear that his efforts make you happier, and not just "well its about darn time", because there is no positive feedback there. If anything its a backhanded compliment if that, and thats in no way encouraging. I find my guy will do just about anything if he thinks the reward is worth it.. and ultimately guys want us happy to make them feel successful in the relationship, no? Start little, baby steps, cleanliness is a habit, not a personality trait. Start with having him help you, involve him... make it fun, make it playful.. make him realize that helping you is rewarding to both of you. Granted you can't make people do 180's but change IS possible. Like someone said, people *grow* in relationship, just gotta make sure its in the right direction. :)
Good luck!

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So much good advice already. I do have to agree with Queen and strongly disagree with bicam but...

Now that you've vented in the right place, a few points.
1 You already know yelling doesn't work. Neither does withholding. Withholding love or speech or anything else always ultimately backfires and pushes your partner away.
2 Of course people can change. They do all the time. The way to help a partner change in a positive direction is with specific instruction. Saying "help me clean up" is not useful. You are more likely to succeed with I statements with clear instructions. Such as "I would feel appreciated and happy and not taken for granted if you would put all of your dirty clothes in the hamper as soon as you take them off". Then when he does it he must get rewarded. This truly works. Remember to use small steps. Real specific easy instructions.
3 I've said it before, but I recommend "imago" to deal with relationship issues. A therapist or a weekend seminar is better but you can start with just the book. The book is called "getting the love you want" by harville hendricks. Some of it is goofy, but retraining yourself to ask for what you need in a polite and respectful way, including why you need it and how it would make you feel, followed by clear gratitude when it is done is the way to go. Everybody has annoying habits. You should also encourage him to tell you the things he's been "ignoring" about you. You probably don't even know what they are and how important they are to him.

Good luck :)

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Originally Posted by margo49

Following on from Sydney B...

if you're going to delegate/share you can't in all fairness then turn round and criticise the way it's been done. So you will have to accept that the job has been done even if you're less than happy with the result. (Within reason)

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This is definitely the truth. But, I've been able to adjust, although sometimes I do sneak an extra wipe behind the kitchen spigots when he's not looking. :p

True for the boys (11,12, & 16) as well. E.g. When they help fold clothes, it's rarely the way I would do it, but they're trying and I just keep my mouth shut.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sydney_b

This is definitely the truth. But, I've been able to adjust, although sometimes I do sneak an extra wipe behind the kitchen spigots when he's not looking. :p

True for the boys (11,12, & 16) as well. E.g. When they help fold clothes, it's rarely the way I would do it, but they're trying and I just keep my mouth shut.

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LOL - I have three boys (4, 6, 8) and when they make their beds its a sight to behold.:eek: I normally just shut the door so I dont feel the urge to go and remake them.:)

Mmmmmmm, I'm confused as to why my advice is not reasonable. I don't disagree people can change, if they want to, but I'm assuming (and forgive me if this course has not been taken) that all the discussions have already taken place and now the frustration is there is no change.

Listen, I appreciate all of you women trying to help your "boys" grow up and take responsibility. But it is alot of work. Making lists, sorting piles, constantly nagging, that's really no fun is it? I just don't have the patience. I expect my man to be all grown up before we make any commitment.

Yes, the good should be weighed with the bad (and I said that previously). In a relationship I tend to be the neat freak and I can't expect everyone to be that way so, I don't nag, I just clean. My partner does all sort of other things for me like fixing things, doing the heavy chores etc. But if he just sat around on his butt expecting me to do everything, then he would be set out on the curb. How is there any good in that relationship? That obviosuly shows a lack of respect for the relationship.

Nothing wrong in venting but I didn't take the post as just venting. I apologize if no advice was asked for. I obviously misunderstood.

Sometimes, a person needs to realize a mistake was made and instead of trying to fix the mistake, it is better to stop the bleed, cut the loss and move on. Is there a real problem with this recommendation? :confused:

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Originally Posted by carimail

Somehow Dr. Laura forgot to read her own book! :confused:

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Have you read the book? I wonder why you say that?

I understand alot of folks don't like Dr Laura because she seems to be harsh sometimes. I am alot like her. I like to tell it like it is. Life's too short to not be direct. The truth can be harsh and sometimes you need a slap in the face in order to wake up and make the right decision.

I can say, you just write notes and tell him you love him but he needs to pick up his stuff, or I can say let's pin notes around the room with little hearts all over them to tell him to pick up his stuff and listing chores he should do, but if I were him, I would get pissed and purposely do nothing, so what was accomplished?

And back to Dr. Laura, none of us is a perfect person. We have all made mistakes in our life. Lord knows, as I was growing up and even now, I make terrible mistakes. It doesn't mean Dr. Laura (or I) cannot provide meaningful and insightful advice. And you can choose to ignore my advice, not critize it. It was intended to be helpful not hurtful. But we all have to take personal responsibility - if he is the wrong man, whose responsibity is that?

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Originally Posted by bcipam

I understand alot of folks don't like Dr Laura because she seems to be harsh sometimes.

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Dr Laura is not harsh, just intolerant. Not a good quality in a "doctor". :)

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Originally Posted by bcipam

That's it in a nutshell - it's a give and take.

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Originally Posted by bcipam

And you can choose to ignore my advice, not critize it.

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Through the wonderful world of the internet it is difficult to understand sometimes, but the tone of your words is that you are expecting everyone to take what you say and agree without question. I'm not sure, but it doesn't sound like anyone on the Forum personally knows betagirl and her BF. All we can really do is commiserate and offer suggestions since we don't have firsthand knowledge. Frequently, the person must develop his or her own solutions using a conglomeration of many persons' ideas. Sometimes friends just need to listen.

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Originally Posted by Hell-uv-a-job

Dr Laura is not harsh, just intolerant. Not a good quality in a "doctor". :)

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I would say you haven't really either listened to her or read her books. It's your perception I'm assuming from other sources she is intolerate. Everyone is intolerate in their own way. But we are all entitled. I personally would not tolerate people who abuse children. Is that wrong?

Also she is a doctor of physiology. She does not hold herself as a psychologist. She admits she does not counsel but that she expresses her own views, as do we all. You can choose to listen or not. I don't always agree with what she has to say but generally, she is right on the mark.

I do suggest you read her book. Then let's talk...

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

Through the wonderful world of the internet it is difficult to understand sometimes, but the tone of your words is that you are expecting everyone to take what you say and agree without question. I'm not sure, but it doesn't sound like anyone on the Forum personally knows betagirl and her BF. All we can really do is commiserate and offer suggestions since we don't have firsthand knowledge. Frequently, the person must develop his or her own solutions using a conglomeration of many persons' ideas. Sometimes friends just need to listen.

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No of course, I am only expressing my own views. And you are right - Betagirl should weigh all issues and make her own decisions. I only know what she said in her initial post and don't know the whole story. If anything I have said hits home, I hope she understands the context in which the advice was given. It either applies or it doesn't.