When to "graduate"?

I don't ride clipless.

And I know my bike seat is too low.

I don't get that nice full extension when riding my bike, and often when I pedal aggressively I bounce my way right out of the saddle. This is very frustrating for me, as before I was benched I surprised myself by genuinely wanting to ride faster, harder, and longer, and feeling happiest when I could. But more than my frustration is my fear. I wouldn't mind not being able to touch the ground straight away if the only thing I rode was a road, but I often ride washed-out dirt hills with sharp ditches taller than I am on either side, and I like being able to use my feet as secondary breaks... especially as I'm not too sure about how reliable my bike's breaks are. I'm still on Wal Mart's Roadmaster Granite Peak, after all, and I have no idea where the breaks even are on a bicycle.

So I'm still locked into a low saddle position with my feet on the ground thanks to that, but I'm wondering... when will I 'graduate' to riding at the correct height? And after that, when come the clipless? Perhaps it's whenever I feel comfortable... but I wonder if a scaredy-cat like me will ever feel comfortable like that :p

First off, your saddle can be at an ideal height for power and comfort regardless of the type of pedal you're running, so let's take clipless pedals off the table for a moment because, quite frankly, your post raises much more fundamental concerns in my mind. Stopping with your feet Fred Flintstone style suggests to me that you're riding terrain that's over your head from a skill standpoint and/or your bike is not in good working order. Both of those problems absolutely need to be addressed long before you ever get to clipless pedals.

My first suggestion would be to get yourself to that not-so-local LBS and have them give your bike a good tune up. If you need better brakes, get them. While there, try on some helmets and get one that fits. I'd also ask them to move your saddle up to a more ideal height. It's hard to properly control a bike if the fit and set up is way off.

Once you've done that, you might do some YouTube searches for "mountain bike" and "emergency braking." There are actually some techniques you can learn that help you brake safely, but again, given your back issues and the general quality of that bike, it gives me pause that you're doing any off-road riding without some fundamental skill development first. It sounds as if one fall could really do your back in. Is there any reason you can't stick to roads while you get more experience riding your bike?

Sorry if I sound alarmist, but I think you need to go back a few steps and correct some underlying issues.

you don't necessarily need clipless ever, btw

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Originally Posted by Irulan

you don't necessarily need clipless ever, btw

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Absolutely!

Irulan, thank goodness!

indysteel, thanks for the input. I have to ride the dirt hills to get to the paved roads because I live in the woods. There isn't a safe place to park unless I drive for a good half hour, so it would seem a ridiculous waste of gas to me to drive out, park, ride my bike for a bit, and drive back.

My bike handles the roads (even the scary dirt hills) just fine, it's just that I'm a wuss and like the added comfort of knowing I can dig my heels into the dirt to help slow me down if I need to. When I was young and mountain biking I pressed my brakes too hard and went head over handlebars (with a helmet on) and right into a tree, so now I like to balance brakes with dragging heels to avoid that. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the brakes or the bike since they seem to work just fine on the roads, just that I'm afraid of relying solely on brakes. Even on paved roads I brake slowly and like to make turns with one foot sticking out to catch myself just in case. Picture me as the kid who just got her training wheels off; I'm going to be using my feet to balance and stop for a while yet until I feel comfortable moving at that height and at that speed.

I'll look into the YT vids, though. I don't know why I didn't think of it myself.

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Originally Posted by Swan

I have to ride the dirt hills to get to the paved roads because I live in the woods. There isn't a safe place to park unless I drive for a good half hour...

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I live in the woods too. I would strongly recommend that you either ride out the same way you'd take your car out, walk your bike down your lane, or drive to the end and park by your mailbox. I'm not sure how long your lane is, but however long and steep it is, it's got to be safer and less technical than what you describe! I live on a 1/2-mile crushed stone lane with a couple of steep sections, and I might do any one of the above three on my skinny-tire road bike, depending on conditions (both the condition of the lane and the condition of my head).

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Originally Posted by Swan

I pressed my brakes too hard and went head over handlebars

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You squeezed your FRONT brake too hard and your rear brake not enough, and forgot to shift your weight back behind the saddle. That's exactly one of those kinds of skills Indy is suggesting that you learn. I did an endo two years ago myself, after decades of believing it wasn't possible on a road bike. That belief was what made me too lazy to learn better braking technique. I was lucky enough to escape with seven stitches in my face and two sprained wrists and thank goodness a neck that was only jammed, not broken. You can bet that I've been working on my braking technique ever since then!

I would second everything Indy said, though I know zilch about mountain biking, technique is important for everyone to learn, and as someone who's also dealing with irritated spinal nerve roots, you don't need to be putting yourself at risk.

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When I was young and mountain biking I pressed my brakes too hard and went head over handlebars (with a helmet on) and right into a tree, so now I like to balance brakes with dragging heels to avoid that.

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That sounds horrible.
Wouldn't walking your bike be preferable to that? .

Instead of walking you through brake skills, I suggest you take your bike in, get the brake checked, get your saddle height corrected, and find out if they have a basic skills clinic

I am a mountain bike coach and one of the very first things we teach is correct braking. Your front brake is 60% of your braking power, but the rear brake balances that out. You have to use both of them together to brake successfully ( no endos, skidding etc) If you are on a crap wal mart bike, chances are the brakes are not installed correctly and/or don't function properly.

I am really surprised you aren't having knee pain with a saddle too low.

Go to the mountain biking section of this forum, use the forum tools to search and search the mountain bike forum for "braking". You will find a bazillion threads on mtb skills and techniques, with lots and lots of information. This may be the link to the search, not sure if this will work or not. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/searc...searchid=90686

Thanks for elaborating, Swan, but I stand by my original advice. Stopping your bike with your feet is a bad, unsafe habit. The sooner you learn better techniques, the better off you'll be. Those techniques include understanding when to use your front and rear brakes, brake modulation, body position and weight transfer. Again, there are plenty of good videos on YouTube to get you started.

As a relatively new mountain biker, I cannot stress enough how big of a difference--in terms of safety and enjoyment--a few
basic skills can make, safe braking chief among them. Google basic mountain bike skills/drills and start reading and watching. If you have to go offroad to ride, take the time and effort to learn how to do it right.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I live in the woods too. I would strongly recommend that you either ride out the same way you'd take your car out, walk your bike down your lane, or drive to the end and park by your mailbox. I'm not sure how long your lane is, but however long and steep it is, it's got to be safer and less technical than what you describe!

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Thanks, but I mean that the roads themselves past my mailbox are paved with washed out dirt until you reach the "city" part of the town which is half an hour's drive away. There is a stretch of paved road between here and there, but the access is too narrow to park on the side of the road so I can bike solely on that stretch. I bike the same paths I drive, but for some reason it's a little more frightening on a bike than in a car. Thanks for the tip on the brakes :) Wish I'd have known that as a ten year old.


Irulan, Yes, I always push both brakes simultaneously when trying to stop. Nope, haven't had any knee problems whatsoever. I've opened the MTB forums and will read all I can. I'll take the bike in to adjust it to the proper height when I no longer feel terrified of doing so.


Indysteel It just seems odd to me and came as a huge surprise that people's feet aren't supposed to touch the ground when cycling. In my town, everyone rides with their feet available for emergency stops/catches, and I've not ever seen anyone who doesn't aside from video clips of professional cycling races. It's certainly been interesting learning all these things on this forum.

It really isn't safe to try to stop by dragging your feet. It isn't going to help in an emergency and probably would just result in an injury to your foot. Sticking your foot out when you turn is especially unsafe. If there isn't a skills class where you are (I know most places where I go there isn't any classes like that) then maybe start by first going for slow and easy rides where you practice not putting your feet down until you stop. Get up a little speed, coast a bit, brake lightly to stop. Then put your feet on the ground. Try that for a while. Until you are comfortable braking. Then raise your seat just a little. And then a little more, gradually working your way up to where you should be. You might need some help getting the seat height right.

I ride clipless on my road bike.

But I personally would NEVER ride clipless on dirt. I hear too many tails of broken ankles with MTB because people can't unclip fast enough in an emergency, which there is more of due to the very unpredictable terrain of dirt/mountain. I'm clumsy enough with my road bike (20+ falls)
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2012 Specialized Amira Elite, upgraded carbon handle bars, Jett saddle 143mm switched to 145mm 2012 Selle Italia Max SLR Gel Flow saddle
2010 Santa Cruz Juliana with R kit and Crampon pedals
2011 Specialized Ariel Sport,suspension post,Serfas Rx Women's Microfiber saddle (sold)

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Originally Posted by goldfinch

It really isn't safe to try to stop by dragging your feet. It isn't going to help in an emergency and probably would just result in an injury to your foot. Sticking your foot out when you turn is especially unsafe. If there isn't a skills class where you are (I know most places where I go there isn't any classes like that) then maybe start by first going for slow and easy rides where you practice not putting your feet down until you stop. Get up a little speed, coast a bit, brake lightly to stop. Then put your feet on the ground. Try that for a while. Until you are comfortable braking. Then raise your seat just a little. And then a little more, gradually working your way up to where you should be. You might need some help getting the seat height right.

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This sounds like a really good plan. I'd add in, practice on the brakes on flat areas and pavement, just so you can get the feel for them.

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Originally Posted by Irulan

This sounds like a really good plan. I'd add in, practice on the brakes on flat areas and pavement, just so you can get the feel for them.

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Agreed. I'll go with goldfinch's advice. Thanks everyone.

Oh, please, do raise your seatpost and stop using your feet to brake! The thought of your ankles and feet swishing around near the wheels makes me queasy just sitting here... :-)

But I understand you having to navigate rough terrain and wanting to put your feet down. I have a bit of that kind of terrain in winter, because the guy responsible for plowing our small roads only feels like doing it once in a blue moon, and in the meantime I have snow and deep, icy random ruts to deal with until I get down to the mostly clear roads. When it's really bad I unclip on the left side (and I agree with the others, you don't need clipless), stand, and pedal really slowly with my weight well back. My balance and handling skills aren't really best then, but my ability to stop fast and put a foot down is. But I count on only tires touching the ground until I come to a complete stop - then a foot.

If it takes a while to learn the skills, and it sounds like you need to go over this terrain no matter what, I'd recommend you raise your seatpost once you're down on the good roads anyway. (Buy a quick-release seatpost clamp if you don't have one.) You'll really enjoy riding with your legs stretched out, it gives you much more punch.

I really admire how you are hanging in there. I recently wrote an article for my newspaper blog about what it was like when I started biking for transportation. Writing that article took me back, remembering how I didn't know the most basic things like don't bike on the sidewalk and get lights. All that stuff about seat height (and power pedal position) and braking technique came way later. I guess I probably felt insecure and dumb when I was learning, but that's not how I remember it. I remember it as a really exciting time where there was something new to learn every bike ride, and I'm excited for people who are having those experiences now.

I had a moderately decent bike when I started, it was a bike-shop-quality hybrid (Specialized Crossroads), but it needed some maintenance and was too small for me. The great thing about riding it for 2 years before buying a new bike is that I knew exactly what I wanted by then. I didn't have a clue about what I needed in a bike when I started riding. It must be tough to ride that walmart bike right now but you are sure getting an education that'll pay off when you are ready to buy your next bike.

WAY TO GO!

I've never had a problem with my feet/ankles while riding so I guess I just never thought of it as that much of a hazard issue. It always seemed to me that it was a hazard prevention tactic. The more you know!

I feel better knowing that I don't "need" clipless... I ran into a group of sharp looking cyclists near the apothecary when I left the hospital and they were very disappointed that I didn't use clipless; apparently I couldn't be considered a cyclist unless I did!

Melalvai, I read your article and laughed a little. I just learned a week or so ago that bikes don't belong on sidewalks and are in fact allowed to use the actual road lanes, and your route sounds a little like the one I am faced with (narrow, steep drop offs...). It feels good to know others before me had to learn and adapt with the same learning experience. :)

One option if you're nervous about clipless is the bmx style pin platform pedal. The little pins dig into any soft shoe sole that's at least 1/4" thick, so they'll work with hiking boots, running shoes, even some dress shoes. Not quite as much grip as clipless, but not bad.

When I first brought home my Avail Inspire, all fitted at my LBS, I had such issues with falling and feeling insecure with stopping with the clipless pedal. Part of the problem was the first few times in trying to get on my bike the "right way" I snagged the chamois of my shorts on the seat and quickly became off balance. I did get to a point where once I was going I was fine, but i truly feared stopping, because that meant starting again. :( Finally, I lowered my seat barely 1/4 of an inch, maybe even closer to 1/8. Small change, big difference. From there I could start with one foot locked in and my butt on my seat. I do not use my feet to stop, but I do unclip, slow to almost a stop with my unclipped leg out and let it catch the ground when the bike has almost stopped with the front wheel turned slightly the opposite direction. Then I unclip the other foot, get it to the ground and come off the seat with both feet firmly on the ground. Not exactly proper, but it works for me and it sounds a bit higher than where you are at.