bikejournal premier member fee increase!

those of you that are member's of bikejournal.. what do you think of the doubling of the fees?

i, for one (at this point in time) am glad i JUST reupped for me and hubby at $10.00! he hasn't added anything new at this time... and had doubled the fees.. with the promise of more benefits... (which means $40.00 a year for me and hubby!)

now i LOVE bikejournal.... i use it as a motivtion tool ("if i go X miles futher than i planned.. i can pass X!" :D or "if i don't ride today... X will pass me!" :eek:)

but as of late... it's been disheartening to see so many year end (last week or days) add bulk miles (because they could enter a raffle for their club.. didn't need to be premier.. didn't enter all year... just come on and entered oodles of miles :mad: ) or people joining 2 or 3 (or more) times (i.e. inCOGnito and inCOGnito1) so that they could count their miles for two clubs.. thus pushing everyone below them down the list (and neither is a premier member!) no telling how many others do this!)

so what are your thoughts?

if you are already a member.. will you re-up at $20? if you aren't a premier member.. will you pay?

again.. i LOVE bikejournal.. just would like to see a bigger difference bwtween paid and unpaid members (and i, personally, would like to see being a member of a bikejournal club be moved to the paid side!)

I guess it would depend what you use it for. I use it strictly as a logging tool, I do check on occasion to see where I am in relationship to the TE ladies and the other BJ members but I ride to ride and log the miles for my own personal satisfaction. I've joined several of the Virtual Rides as an incentive to reach or even exceed my goal. It also gives me a chance to see different parts of the world without ever leaving the comfort of home. I'm sorry Slantz had to increase the membership fees - but I pay $20.00 a year to play games online, I guess I can pay $20.00 a year to support Slantz! Heck I'd pay $20.00 a year to support this board if they ever decide it's too expensive to keep free.

i obviously use it for a logging tool.. but i do have my polar software the i download to that also logs my info....

i like the "motivation" it can provide...... sure it's all just an number... but especially toward the end of the year when i was in the top 100... i would use those numbers to push to stay there! :rolleyes: there would be days i didn't feel like riding.. or didn't feel like riding too far.. and i would think "well if i don't ride XX number of miles... i'll get passed or knocked out of the top 100! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I was originally gifted my initial membership, but I will renew it when time comes. I use the forum and enhanced membership stats a LOT especially since I'm tracking mileage with my personal challenge that I have with a local friend.
I know what you mean about the multiple memberships though. I can say though I know of at least ONE that has paid premium for the two memberships he has jerrywebbonline, jerrywebb . I did see that he's duplicating his mileage under both names though. Now that said, who knows if he'll be willing to pay $40 for that priveledge?

geez... and he's in the top 100.... (and i think inCOGnito) is in or just out of the top 100 too).. so they are bumping everyone below them (the majority of members) by 2 people (one for jerry and one for inCOGnito)!


*sigh* so in reality.. person number 102 is really in the top 100! (and who knows how many others up there are doing the same thing!

:confused:

his second id is 10 miles ahead of me sitting at 121 to my 127 right now too. I'm like you I wonder how many are multiples. I can't prove it but recently I'd seen someone named duck1, 2, 3, 4 ad naseum signing up multiples, but since some of them were added at different times and the membership isn't necessarily listed alphabetically, I can't tell if they are all the same person, just different bikes. I have several bikes listed [including my stationary] all on the same profile. I don't need a ranking for all of them separately.:confused:
Some days when I check my ranking, Jerry's are both on the same mileage, since the subject has been brought up he's not ALWAYS posting them at the same time so it's not quite so obvious.

i'm set up for outdoor miles only.. he's at 89 and 110

i notice inCOGnito and inCOGnito1 have moved apart from each other 2! i just think it's so smarmy :(

looks like at least ONE of the ducks.. might be a wife? but two or three of them appear to be one person again :( :(

it irked me more in nov and dec when i was higher up and really riding... i've slacked off so far this year/month... but still... it's irritating to be be down 2 slots because of some double poster!

i REALLY hope he makes clubs part of the premier! that may or may not stop the double posting (and of course, he's said he's working on making it so you can post your miles to more than one club! that should hopefully help!) i love bikejournal and slantz works so hard.. but the few that abuse it like that... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I don't care how anyone else chooses to log their miles. It's their business. I'm not in competition with them. I only really pay attention to the people I ride with regularly.

How do we know that anyone logging on bike journal is honest about what they report - other than the people you regularly ride with. Cali for all I know you haven't ridden as many miles as say you have. How do you know I'm accurately reporting my miles? You don't. It makes no sense to me, to really care about where you are in the stats in relationship to unknown people.

As far as the cost, Slantz has saved me the trouble of having to create a spreadsheet to track my mileage and climb. My HRM software adds miles, but adds in those from the trainer. I personally don't believe trainer miles are real miles. It doesn't add climb. It's worth $20 to me. If the price goes higher, I may stop using it. I don't participate in the competitions for the above reasons. I prefer to find my motivation within myself.

V.

I will probably pay 20$ just because I know how much of a hassle it is to keep a web site like this alive.

However, I am a bit disappointed with that site in general. The great thing about it is the very high number of members. However, in terms of software and stats, I find it lacking. I have found one example of a much nicer interface with very cool stats at http://www.velotrainer.net/ . (It is in French but you can probably figure some of it out) Unfortunately, what I like about BJ is the fact that I can be "riding" with you guys. And I won't start logging my kilometers on two different web sites...

Hopefully, there will be significant improvements in the coming months! It's still a very cool site.

I'd kind of like to know why people wouldn't pay the $10 to start with. You can track an awful lot of ride and bike info without having to take the time to make an Excel spreadsheet and mess with it and back-ups. Who knows, someday you may be using the bike info to prove to someone you owned a particular bike. I know I'm not terribly good about documentation for insurance reasons.

$20/year is still pretty cheap for what you get--that's less than $0.40 a week! Not only do you not have to develop your own spreadsheet, you get the convenience of accessing your log when and where is most convenient for you. I'd forget to log most of my miles if I had to remember to log my commute miles at home.

In regards to comparing yourself to others in the list, I think you can filter out a lot of duplicates by selecting "show premier members only". Whoopee - I jump over 200 spots in the ranking by doing this and I know I'm being compared to people who really appreciate the site!

Those who don't want to pay $20, no-one's holding a gun to their heads.

But those who think they're entitled to take advantage of slantz' hard work and out-of-pocket expenses without compensating him for his efforts, well, they're freeloaders in my book.

Like Grog says, there's a lot of hassle in maintaining a site like that. Maybe slantz will simply decide that it's not worth the effort to expend so much time and money with little or nothing back in return.

( yes V., I'm feeling snarky today, about this. )

- Jo.

i agree with SK.... why wouldn't someone pay the $10????

as for the $20... i'll probably end up paying $40 for us next year.. it just irks me that the freeloaders.. (yes.. i agree with that term!!!!) don't pay and get the same things i use it for!

maybe if more people had given up the $10 bucks... those of us willing to pay wouldn't be paying 100% more to keep the site going for both the paying ane non paying members!

as for using the site for motivation... i'm sure a LOT more use it as a motivation tool than don't... just read all the comment on this board and on bikejournal's forums about riding to pass so and so... or to stay ahead of so and so....

i won't even dignify the comment about me not riding the miles i post...

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Originally Posted by jobob

Maybe slantz will simply decide that it's not worth the effort to expend so much time and money with little or nothing back in return.

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a good reason to go strictly pay... less members.. less hassle!

I just joined bikejournal.com after reading about it here on TE. It is really convenient, especially when I'm at BF's house and forget my notebook-log.
And I think BF is more into the "competitive" aspects of the stats than me--though I'll admit that is a fun form of motivation. I haven't gotten to my membership fee yet, but I'd definitely pay $20--especially now that I know it is such a "cottage-project".

I will say, it is disappointing to read that there are folks who mis-use the system--though I'm completely boggled as to why they would do it? But like others have said, the tool works for me because my greatest competitor is myself...

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Originally Posted by SpinSis

I will say, it is disappointing to read that there are folks who mis-use the system--though I'm completely boggled as to why they would do it?

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Yes, it is sad that some people exaggerate their stats, there are folks that see life as a competition. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by caligurl

i won't even dignify the comment about me not riding the miles i post...

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Cali, I have now dug and dug through this thread to try to comprehend your upset. I think I found it but apparently we are supposed to remember each and every word you say on various threads.:rolleyes: I still do not see where anyone has identified you as posting phony miles. The point is that you can use BJ for motivation anyway you want but some of us do not compare ourselves to others without personally knowing that person and their credibility. This is not to say that you are not credible, it only says I have not ridden with you and am, therefore, no judge of your credibility.

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Originally Posted by SpinSis

But like others have said, the tool works for me because my greatest competitor is myself...

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Ditto, ditto, ditto. Did I say ditto? :D

I like BJ and will continue to support the site. The entertainment I get is worth another ten bucks. I am in a serious competition with myself. :D Logging those miles everyday and creeping up the mileage list is what gets me out of bed and on the trainer every morning. I don't care what number I'm at, as long as it's higher than the day before. I figure I've got another month, maybe two to keep my high(er) placing because once spring gets here everyone will be leaving me in the dust. But if I COULD crack the top 1000 this year I would be one happy hen. :p If not, well at least I have fun trying. BikerHen

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Originally Posted by bikerHen

I like BJ and will continue to support the site. The entertainment I get is worth another ten bucks. I am in a serious competition with myself. :D Logging those miles everyday and creeping up the mileage list is what gets me out of bed and on the trainer every morning. I don't care what number I'm at, as long as it's higher than the day before. I figure I've got another month, maybe two to keep my high(er) placing because once spring gets here everyone will be leaving me in the dust. But if I COULD crack the top 1000 this year I would be one happy hen. :p If not, well at least I have fun trying. BikerHen

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I completely agree with you BikerHen. BJ really helps me get up and on that trainer. My only complaint about BJ is the forum. I don't know if there is a way to find the new posts. Like here at TE I log in click New Posts and then I click the little check box thing next to each thread and it takes me to the first new post. I don't see this feature on BJ and it's too hard to keep up with what I've read. If I'm missing something ladies please let me know.

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Originally Posted by tatormc

I completely agree with you BikerHen. BJ really helps me get up and on that trainer. My only complaint about BJ is the forum. I don't know if there is a way to find the new posts. Like here at TE I log in click New Posts and then I click the little check box thing next to each thread and it takes me to the first new post. I don't see this feature on BJ and it's too hard to keep up with what I've read. If I'm missing something ladies please let me know.

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Im with you. I glance at the forum sometimes but after using this one (I think we are spoilt here) it all seems a little confusing so I just give it a miss. Probably a good thing really as I would never get anything done if I was to start yacking on another forum.:D

I've been reading this thread with some interest.
I originally started using BJ because of the call for TE members to join and boost the mileage for the club.
Apathy initially kept me from becoming a premium member - together with the fact it's not my primary method for logging my stats. Being a complete nerd at heart, I took the time to devise my own spreadsheet, which can give me all the statistical functions I want and it's easier for me to log all the relevant info I want/need.
I was also unemployed for several months on arriving to NZ and had other priorities for my spare cash.
I continued to use BJ to log my mileage, but no other data - and it's been fun to watch my place go up in the list and keep track of the team mileage/goals, but as others have said, it bears no relation to reality because it means nothing by itself. 100km of hills are different from 100km of downhill/flats - and ultimately I only care about my own performance and improvement.
As I understand it, Slantz provides two levels of membership - free and premium. I'm absolutely incensed that I'm being branded as a "freeloader" for using a service that someone is seemingly happy to provide free of charge. I understand the principle that paying for premium membership is supporting development of the site, etc. etc. but if the guy doesn't want people to use his service for free, it's HIS perogative to ask all members to become premium and charge a fee for membership - I don't see why others are taking the moral highground just because premium membership is something they choose to take advantage of.
Because it's not my primary method of logging, I see it as an additional useful feature, but certainly don't feel compelled to pay premium membership - whether $10 or $100 - to simply log my miles.
This is probably coming across as very arrogant and selfish - but the point I'm trying to make is that at the moment there are two levels of membership which he makes available - because I'm using it as a secondary and haphazard tool, I choose the basic free membership. Why does that make me a freeloader? If Slantz were to charge for membership then I would simply revert to using my own spreadsheet.
I salute all those people who take full advantage of the site and are happy to support Slantz, but don't appreciate being lambasted for using a service that is being willingly provided free of charge.
Again, the primary reason I joined was to contribute to the TE miles, goals - if this isn't welcome as a free member, then I'll happily withdraw my contribution.
Obviously I in no way condone abuse of the system, ie duplicate memberships, etc. etc.

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Originally Posted by tatormc

I completely agree with you BikerHen. BJ really helps me get up and on that trainer. My only complaint about BJ is the forum. I don't know if there is a way to find the new posts. Like here at TE I log in click New Posts and then I click the little check box thing next to each thread and it takes me to the first new post. I don't see this feature on BJ and it's too hard to keep up with what I've read. If I'm missing something ladies please let me know.

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it depends on how long it's been since you read a thread, but if you go in daily, click on the numbers next to the post and it will get you to the closest newest post. If there have been a LOT of posts it may not be that easy, but I do believe you can click on show all posts at the top of the particular thread you're check and scan through like we do here.

Slantz' rules allow BJ to be used for no charge and even have duplicate memberships. I don't have a problem with people who use it based on his rule and don't pay for premier membership as long as they don't expect much and I am always surprised when I see non-premier members ask for changes. I think the vast majority of basic members do respect this.

Someone has to pay for the servers, growing support demands and programming costs; it's a tough act to balance attracting people and then giving them enough extra features to motivate some to pay. For those that are motivated by features, I think the differences between basic and premier membership are not clear enough and have caused some of the upset. I think he will be working on making the differences more apparent. Some folks are simply motivated by the less tangible value of the community interaction. Here at TE we only have the community aspect but the site is supported by our retail purchases. I can't imagine that Susan hosts this forum solely out of the goodness of her heart and, obviously, the software that runs this forum is a licensed cookie-cutter application so there are little to no custom programming costs. Basic members can support BJ in a small way simply by making purchases using sponsor links which are becoming more available. For those who then want to complain that there shouldn't be a lot of advertisements, I think slantz is adding them in a tasteful way and either he brings on sponsors or the fees will be higher. Basically, it just comes down to playing within the slantz's rules not imposing your own rules on someone else's play.

Regarding the forum, posts that are red are the current day's active posts and are always at the top of the forum. If they are grayed out, the post hasn't had any activity since midnight the night before. The forum does not track an individual's activity - such as whether you, the user, read a post. It's not difficult just a different way of running a forum.

I appologize for any offense my post, and my callous "freeloader" comment, has caused. :(

jo " took a chill pill " bob

Well, slantz has really caused a furor, eh?

People are arguing about change. Even the complaints about the advertising are stemming from change. The advertising complaints are different expressions about the change in the premiere fee.

It is silly but that's human nature and we all have it, to varying degrees.

SnappyPix, from those of us who have been at bikejournal for awhile, ignore the negativity and keep logging your miles there for free. The site will take care of itself with paying and non-paying members. The long timers at bj have been through this issue a few times before. It took time to get the negativity ironed out but we did. We are better for it. We long-timers want everyone there to participate and enjoy the site. I was very disappointed in the use of "freeloader" but looking at the sign-up date of the user, it was more understandable. That individual doesn't know the history of this issue. We really aren't "high and mighty" or endowed with anything special. We are just ordinary people. I am very sorry you were offended in such a manner.

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Originally Posted by jobob

I appologize for any offense my post, and my callous "freeloader" comment, has caused. :(

jo " took a chill pill " bob

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Bad day at work jo? :D ;) :D ;) :D ;)

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Originally Posted by snapdragen

Yes, it is sad that some people exaggerate their stats, there are folks that see life as a competition. :rolleyes:

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You mean it isn't?? Holy cow! I've been wrong 46 years! Guess I'll have to add it to the list. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by snapdragen

Bad day at work jo? :D ;) :D ;) :D ;)

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Oy, break out the Hangar One !

Actually, I just returned from Pilates, so all is well with my little world. A bit of extra-dark chocolate would not be out of order either. Anyone got some? :)

Didn't I give you some?

V.

:o Chews on one of JoBob's chill pills ...

I would never want to perpetuate a negative thread to this board because that's definitely what TE isn't about. I've always admired the way disagreements are resolved through discussion, rather than argument or flaming.

The ironic thing is, I had been thinking about eventually becoming a premium member, but would do so in a few months' time, when I'm in a better financial position; there are several projects and small fee-paying upgrades that I'd like to contribute to, but don't want to commit myself at this particular moment in time. I do understand the ethos behind supporting development of sites like Bikejournal, but also believe that what one person sees as an intrinsic part of their life, is superfluous to others - or not necessarily such high priority.
I don't know BJ's history, but stab a guess that it started out as an altruistic gesture, and a very basic facility - but as members became more demanding, the time and effort spiralled into making it what it is today.

My initial over-sensitivity about the freeloader thing was because I didn't think I was doing anything wrong by just using the basic membership for the basic use - and I over-reacted because I'm definitely not a "something for nothing person" - I don't use any of the features of BJ such as forums or statistical analysis, but would understand if Slantz did feel he wanted to make the site fee-paying only for all the hard-work he's put in there.

As I said, I don't want to blow this out of proportion and should probably have worded my reply less tersely. I simply wanted to put things from another perspective.

Thanks to JoBob and pkq for throwing the virtual bucket of cold water over me - just what I needed!! ;)

I've got a couple dark chocolate covered marshmellows........

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Originally Posted by jobob

Oy, break out the Hangar One !

Actually, I just returned from Pilates, so all is well with my little world. A bit of extra-dark chocolate would not be out of order either. Anyone got some? :)

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Didn't I give you some?

V.

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Oh, that's long gone :o (And she wonders why she's putting that weight back on. bwah hah)

And no worries, SnappyPix, you weren't doing anything wrong. I'm the one who was wrong.

- Jo.

(I'll take a pass on the marshmellos, snap - one of the few food-like items I don't like)

ya know - one of the first posts I read when I joined this forum regarded Spazzdogs dog. What I saw on that thread was both points of view being offered in a very open and comfortable environment (does that make sense?) with positive response to both sides. I knew then I wanted to be a part of this group.

I bring this up because I see it again today - I see 2 different points of view being offered and positive responses to both sides and I think to myself "self - once again This is why you spend your time here with these wonderful, wise, caring women"! (ok..that and they ride bikes!)

Once again you ladies ROCK!!!

*passes out She-Ra Tiaras to all*

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Originally Posted by snapdragen

I've got a couple dark chocolate covered marshmellows........

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OK, that's enough, girls. You've made me remember the Scharffen Berger Extra Dark and Gianduja Bars I have tucked away.:mad: :p

SK

PS - I'm with you, jo, marshmallows are not high on my list, but Snap, have you had a Spud Bar?

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

PS - I'm with you, jo, marshmallows are not high on my list, but Snap, have you had a Spud Bar?

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No.....do I need one? :p

edit: OMG! YES I DO!

"The popular Idaho Spud Bar is a wonderful combination of a light cocoa flavored marshmallow center drenched with a dark chocolate coating and then sprinkled with coconut (Sorry, no potato!). The potato shape and unique blend of ingredients appeals to both young and old, making the "Idaho Spud" one of the top hundred selling candy bars in the Northwest, and is Idaho Candy Company's best selling bar. The Idaho Spud Bar has been a favorite since it was first manufactured in 1918."

Our local mag and newstand used to carry these. I'll check just for you.;)