Why is my bike SO slow?!

And I'm pretty certain it's the bike ('09 Cannondale F5) and not me. Similar rides on a 5-10# heavier Salsa Mukluk 3 feel like they're turbo-charged (DH didn't really believe how much I was struggling with this bike until he saw how much easier it was for me to get up to speed and stay up to speed on a massive fat bike). Rides on a friend's Salsa Ala Carte feel zippy and effortless. By contrast EVERY ride on the F5 feels like I'm dragging a full half-barrel of beer behind the bike. An hour of ride time and I'm toast and struggle to maintain speed even on the flats.

Fortunately I have a Salsa El Mariachi that should be arriving any day now, but DS is going to inherit the F5 and he hates riding it. Like me, it is brutally hard for him to ride for long and he can't keep up at all. We've done rides where he's on my friend's Ala Carte and he ZOOMS along and leaves me in the dust.

The bike has decent components for the original retail price--a mix of SRAM X5 & X7, BB5 brakes, FSA TH-7420ST bottom bracket, front hubs: Formula DC20, rear hubs: Formula DC22, rims - Jalco X-320 Disc. Rock Shox Dart 3 fork.

I keep thinking the brakes must be dragging, but DH is not finding evidence of excessive drag (they squeak a bit sort of consistently at lower speeds).

We'd love to figure out how to make this bike less of a dog without dumping a lot of money into it. I'm a reasonably strong rider and the effort required to make it go kills me--years ago I had a too-big, low-rent Schwinn that was WORLDS easier to get up to decent speeds on comparable stretches of road (I didn't really ride off-road when I had that thing), even when I was far less fit than I am now. DS is a skinny kid and I don't blame him when he gets frustrated and doesn't want to ride it long...it's exhausting.

Any thoughts on what could be responsible for it being so sluggish?

I know that you mentioned that it wasn't the brakes, so I would tend to think it is the wheels. It could be that the bearings need to be repacked, or perhaps the adjustment it too tight on the bearings and the wheel can't roll freely. It might be something that new bearings/grease will help.

The one thing that I always remind people of is to compare only that set of wheels, quite often we compare it them to more expensive wheels which better quality bearings, races, seals etc...

Let us know what you find out!

I was a rear wheel free-wheel fail on me. It would definitely make that bike harder to roll. Simple test - hold the bike up, give each wheel a spin and see how long they spin before slowing. Try it again on another bike and see if there's a significant difference.

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Originally Posted by Pedal Wench

I was a rear wheel free-wheel fail on me. It would definitely make that bike harder to roll. Simple test - hold the bike up, give each wheel a spin and see how long they spin before slowing. Try it again on another bike and see if there's a significant difference.

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I just asked hubby and he said when he checked the wheels they spun as he'd expect them to--no obvious issues. He wonders if it's my fit on the bike (it's a size too small), but my fit is probably worse on my friend's Ala Carte (a 12.5" frame--tiny. My bike is just a hair <14" seat-tube) and that thing is easy peasy to move and keep moving.

I was thinking it could be the freehub also, but mine never made any noise or significant drag until I was coasting above 30 mph for enough time to heat it up. LBS owner couldn't replicate it on the flats no matter how fast he got the bike, since he couldn't coast long enough to heat up (and therefore he wouldn't believe me... but that's another story :rolleyes:).

Still, that wouldn't affect you unless you're freewheeling. If it feels slow when the pawls are engaged - when you're pedaling fast enough to keep up with the wheel - it isn't the freehub.

Loose spokes - or just a floppier wheel overall? I had no idea how flexy spoked wheels are, and how much power you lose there, until the first time I rode a disc.

It could be due to many things-
-the grease in the wheel bearings is "packed up" (sorta solidified)
-the freehub needs cleaning & lubrication
-the wheels are not tensioned properly
-tires a/o tubes are clunkers
-the frame is misaligned or the dropouts are misaligned.

Frame and/or dropout misalignment (i.e., the front and rear wheels are not spinning in exactly the same plane) is often overlooked, but I had this problem on one of my bikes and the effects are very noticeable.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I was thinking it could be the freehub also, but mine never made any noise or significant drag until I was coasting above 30 mph for enough time to heat it up. LBS owner couldn't replicate it on the flats no matter how fast he got the bike, since he couldn't coast long enough to heat up (and therefore he wouldn't believe me... but that's another story :rolleyes:).

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Lemme guess... Mavic's? Mine would only happen after a long downhill (spent the summer in Colorado, they're hard to avoid!) and then would make a god-awful screeching sound.

:D I think we may have talked about this when it happened. Mine was so loud that cars coming the other direction pulled over. :p

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Originally Posted by Hi Ho Silver

It could be due to many things-
-the grease in the wheel bearings is "packed up" (sorta solidified)
-the freehub needs cleaning & lubrication
-the wheels are not tensioned properly
-tires a/o tubes are clunkers
-the frame is misaligned or the dropouts are misaligned.

Frame and/or dropout misalignment (i.e., the front and rear wheels are not spinning in exactly the same plane) is often overlooked, but I had this problem on one of my bikes and the effects are very noticeable.

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Those are all interesting possibilities. How easy is it to determine any of these possibilities and diagnose? The tubes and tires would be my last suspicion. I have Kenda Nevegals, which people around here always seem to rave about.

What is so frustrating is all the glowing reviews I read of the Cannondale F5. I have a friend with the EXACT same bike (Cdale had a bunch of the petite size sitting in a warehouse and essentially liquidated them about a year ago). She rides far less than I do and on the road with our road bikes I can ride circles around her. On trails I can barely keep up with her and end up beating myself up trying to do so.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I was thinking it could be the freehub also, but mine never made any noise or significant drag until I was coasting above 30 mph for enough time to heat it up. LBS owner couldn't replicate it on the flats no matter how fast he got the bike, since he couldn't coast long enough to heat up (and therefore he wouldn't believe me... but that's another story :rolleyes:).

Still, that wouldn't affect you unless you're freewheeling. If it feels slow when the pawls are engaged - when you're pedaling fast enough to keep up with the wheel - it isn't the freehub.

Loose spokes - or just a floppier wheel overall? I had no idea how flexy spoked wheels are, and how much power you lose there, until the first time I rode a disc.

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Yeah, it still feels slow when I pedal. People in front of me can be coasting down a hill and I can't even gain on them while pedaling like mad.

Maybe floppy wheels. They are definitely low-end wheels. Unfortunately we'd likely not put money into replacing them, even though they do seem to be the lowest-rent componentry on the bike.. I'm not sure how I can convinced DS to want to ride with us when this thing is such a dog. It's pretty demoralizing for a kid to have to work so hard to keep up with his chubby old folks! :p

Nevs are definitely a slow tire (but they grip everything!!), so I wouldn't discount that. If it were me, I'd start with re-packing and re-adjusting the hubs, and see what results that yields.

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Originally Posted by Becky

Nevs are definitely a slow tire (but they grip everything!!), so I wouldn't discount that. If it were me, I'd start with re-packing and re-adjusting the hubs, and see what results that yields.

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I suggested looking at the hubs (since that seems to be such a common suggestion) to DH and he's out monkeying with our CX bikes for tomorrow's race and said if he has time he'll see what he can figure out. He knows his way around bikes pretty well (has changed out the drive-train multiple times on his kludged-together CX bike and does nearly all the maintenance on our bikes), but I'm not sure he's ever done much with hubs.

I should add that the bike only has maybe 225 miles or so on it.

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

How much could you get for it if you sell it?

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I don't know. We paid $350. Full retail was $700.

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

Could you get $400.00, and then go shopping for a different one for you DS?

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Hubby doubts we could get more than maybe $250 for it, since newer ones with less wear seem to be going for about what we paid. Probably not worth the bother for something that the rugrat might only fit for one more year--at almost 12 he fits it perfectly now...in a year it may already be too small, so we wouldn't likely sell it until then. We already ate a lot buying him a new Redline Conquest 24 that we'd hoped he'd get at least 2 years out of. It was new at Christmas and we're suspicious that it will be too small by next Summer, already. He had a massive growth spurt in recent months. Danged kids! :p

Heck, by next Summer I may be putting out feelers here to see if any of the TE ladies are ready to sell a current MTB to upgrade.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

The tubes and tires would be my last suspicion. I have Kenda Nevegals, which people around here always seem to rave about.

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Could the tires be inflated too much? It sounds counter intuitive because higher inflation means less sidewall flex and thus less energy lost flexing the sidewalls. However, overinflation also makes you bounce over every little road/trail irregularity. Lifting you up a millimeter and then dropping back down takes a lot more energy than you might save in reduced sidewall flex.

A nearby university has a sidewalk / utility road where one side is concrete and the other is asphalt. Riding on the concrete is annoying because of the constant thump-thump across each expansion joint. However, it is the easier and faster ride. In contrast, the asphalt has constant rolling irregularities that just sap all my energy and speed.

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Originally Posted by laura*

Could the tires be inflated too much? It sounds counter intuitive because higher inflation means less sidewall flex and thus less energy lost flexing the sidewalls. However, overinflation also makes you bounce over every little road/trail irregularity. Lifting you up a millimeter and then dropping back down takes a lot more energy than you might save in reduced sidewall flex.

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Nah...I have a hard time going even 9-10mph on the paved road with this bike and have to kill myself to do so--it feels like the bike is fighting me every pedal stroke. By contrast my POS Schwinn that I had years ago that was too big, had much lower-end components, and weighed more was easy to roll at 11-12mph when I had no cycling fitness. I can get a heavier Salsa Mukluk fat bike going much faster on the road than the F5, with FAR less effort. Generally we have the tires on the F5 around 30psi, IIRC.

I think if the bike is not a good fit for you, you cannot get your legs moving well enough to do speed. I remember when I changed from a trek hybrid to a bianchi. The bianchi just wanted to go go go. The difference was very obvious.
Different frame angles can definitely slow you down. It's just physics. It doesn't have to be a heavier bike or a defective bike. It just has to do with the way it was made and the way you are made. Sounds like you need a new bike, i mean, after all you are "zoom zoom" go get you a bike that zooms.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

I think if the bike is not a good fit for you, you cannot get your legs moving well enough to do speed. I remember when I changed from a trek hybrid to a bianchi. The bianchi just wanted to go go go. The difference was very obvious.
Different frame angles can definitely slow you down. It's just physics. It doesn't have to be a heavier bike or a defective bike. It just has to do with the way it was made and the way you are made. Sounds like you need a new bike, i mean, after all you are "zoom zoom" go get you a bike that zooms.

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That was DH's theory, too, but then it makes no sense that I can get my friend's even smaller Ala Carte up to speed without much trouble. That thing feels positively zippy, even though the bikes aren't all that different in size and geo. Both bikes fit my DS really well, but he ends up really frustrated on the Cannondale and can only ride about half the distance before he's exhausted and wants to quit.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Those are all interesting possibilities. How easy is it to determine any of these possibilities and diagnose? The tubes and tires would be my last suspicion. I have Kenda Nevegals, which people around here always seem to rave about.

What is so frustrating is all the glowing reviews I read of the Cannondale F5. I have a friend with the EXACT same bike (Cdale had a bunch of the petite size sitting in a warehouse and essentially liquidated them about a year ago). She rides far less than I do and on the road with our road bikes I can ride circles around her. On trails I can barely keep up with her and end up beating myself up trying to do so.

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The first thing to check would be wheel trueness. "Dish" (proper spacing of the rims between the dropouts) and "lateral trueness" (no side-to-side warping of the rims) are most relevant here. Roundness of the rims (vertical trueness) wouldn't affect tracking.

The easiest way to check the rims is with a truing stand and a dishing tool, but you can improvise tools to do a quick check of trueness (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#improvised). Spoke tension can be checked with a special tool, or in a pinch, by listening to the tone when the spokes are plucked (http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm). Check Sheldon Brown's web site for truing methods.

Checking the frame alignment is best done with a special tool. You could do a preliminary check of alignment by improvising (http://sheldonbrown.com/forkend-alignment.html), but your best bet is to take the bike to your local bike shop -they should be willing to check alignment for for free, or for a very minimal charge.

As I mentioned earlier, check the wheels. Take the wheels off the bike and spin the wheels in your hands, make sure that the axle in in your hands and NOT the quick release. If the bearing adjustment is too tight, then the wheel will spin and feel as though it is catching in your hands.

Although you only have 225 miles on the bike, it still could have dirt/water inside the hubs making them not spin as freely. I know that you mentioned that your DH services the bike, perhaps a trip to your LBS is also in order. They should ahve the experience to check the entire bike over, and give you a pretty quick answer. I seriously doubt that the frame is out of alignment etc.... again check the wheels!

As for the Nevegals, they are indeed a bit heavier tire but they are meant for "traction." If you're riding in an area that you don't need that much grip, then change your tires. I typically ride the Kenda Small Block 8's early in the season when it's dry, but this time of year I"m riding the Nevegals for traction over the wet roots and leaves.

Good Luck!!

i still say, get rid of the stupid bike. You won't be sorry. Or you can take it to a shop and have them try and find what was wrong with it.

I have to agree with Mimi. If you had a lot invested in it and/or it was a fine bike, then it would certainly be worth trying to figure out what is wrong. But as inexpensive as it was, I'd just try to sell it for ~$300, figure the $50 was not a lot to lose, and move on.

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Originally Posted by Becky

Nevs are definitely a slow tire (but they grip everything!!), so I wouldn't discount that.

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http://www.kendausa.com/en/home/bicy...n/nevegal.aspx

There are lots of Nevs, some very heavy (read: lots of ruber to flex and eat up your energy). I'm with Becky: try known-good tires before getting rid of the bike.

Hmmm...the thing is I've gone from small block 8s to a much heavier and wider tire on my CX bike and never noticed a huge difference--I actually like the heavier tire because they are much more aggressive, more stable down hills and rough areas, and I can bomb through sandy and muddy areas better (which is pretty much all of West MI--it's all sand dunes with pathetic grass). I asked my DH about the possibility of the Nevegals being the issue and he pointed out that the tires on the Mukluk are WAY heavier and that bike still was noticeably easier to move and keep moving, even up hills.

I almost wonder if it's more than one factor at play and that we could end up spending a lot of time and money to not really come up with any one solution for a bike that we'll likely sell in a year or two. I'd really like to borrow one of my friends' identical bikes (I think there were 4 of us who ended up with this bike when our LBS had them a year ago) for a few miles and see if theirs are noticeably different.

We'll definitely be looking for a higher end used bike for the rugrat when the time comes. I don't want him to always be stuck frustrated with heavy, sluggish bikes. He's such a slight kid that he can't even use his body weight to beast a bike around (unlike me, heh).

I don't know, but it's something I've been wondering for a few years now. I, too, have a Cannondale F5 (but from '07). I'm like a slug on that thing, but can ride my friends Salsa mtn bike (that is about the same weight) with SO much less effort. I'm perplexed. The shop I bought it from fit me to it so I'm certain it's the right size (they've fit my other 3 bikes just perfectly).
Makes me wish I'd never gotten rid of my old crappy rigid Trek mtn bike....

Okay, I am not a techie, but everyone has mentioned wheels and tires, but could it be something in the bottom bracket that is causing interference? Maybe you're getting some resistance there.

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I don't know, but it's something I've been wondering for a few years now. I, too, have a Cannondale F5 (but from '07). I'm like a slug on that thing, but can ride my friends Salsa mtn bike (that is about the same weight) with SO much less effort. I'm perplexed. The shop I bought it from fit me to it so I'm certain it's the right size (they've fit my other 3 bikes just perfectly).
Makes me wish I'd never gotten rid of my old crappy rigid Trek mtn bike....

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Which spec. level is yours? Granted, mine is not the top of the line for the model, but it definitely wasn't a truly "entry level" bike, either. I've been told that the fork, alone, would probably have been a $350 fork. A mix of SRAM X5 and X7 is not crap, either.

But for the life of me I cannot figure out how the F5 was Cannondale's top-selling mountain bike at the time if they all were this doggy.

I have ridden with a friend who rides a heavy full-suspension mtn. bike and leaves me in the dust when I'm on my F5. On CX and road bikes of similar quality and weight we are very nearly perfectly matched in terms of speed at comparable effort. You'd never know we have similar fitness levels to see us ride mountain bikes together.

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Originally Posted by Charlieggo

Okay, I am not a techie, but everyone has mentioned wheels and tires, but could it be something in the bottom bracket that is causing interference? Maybe you're getting some resistance there.

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I have wondered about this. DH played with the brakes and we'll see if that makes any difference. He really doesn't think it's the hubs/wheels. BB is next on our list of things to examine.

Have you ever ridden the bike with a different wheelset? That might help rule out the wheels as the issue.

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Have you ever ridden the bike with a different wheelset? That might help rule out the wheels as the issue.

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That's a really good idea. We could try that with my friend's wheels--from her Salsa.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

:D I think we may have talked about this when it happened. Mine was so loud that cars coming the other direction pulled over. :p

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Ha! Sounds like the same thing. Mine was just this summer, and it was terrifying when it would start howling. Just got home so I can finally get it fixed.

I'd say, combo of things, already mentioned above. Wheels (maybe) but more likely the tires and maybe the bottom bracket. Try another wheelset that has different tires on it. I had Kenda Negevals and they suck. Most versions are thick heavy tires. Yea they stick but they are like riding a bike with thick strips of sorbathane wrapped around the wheels. It's not the weight of the tires, that's a small factor. It's the materials/design. Those tires just suck. I'm riding Tioga Psycho genius tires now, not light weight but they roll really well. Wheels can also just be loose. Squeeze a few spokes together and compare the tension to other wheelsets. A really loose wheelset will be VERY different.

You have already eliminated the hub bearings, as they spin down well, and heavy brake drag. So check that bottom bracket, it's easy to compare two bikes with the chains removed. The crank should spin without crunchy noises and smoothly.

If everything checks, and different wheelset makes no difference, I'd say sell it and move on, the geometry just isn't working for you.

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Originally Posted by tzvia

If everything checks, and different wheelset makes no difference, I'd say sell it and move on, the geometry just isn't working for you.

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Oh, I am already moving on...my Salsa El Mariachi 3 should be in my hot little hands sometime next week! :D The Cannondale will be going on to my 11 year old DS. We figure he will fit it for a year, but in its current operational state he's going to be loathe to use it. Once he outgrows it we'll likely scour eBay for a used frame that we can build-up...he can learn some wrenching with this, too. Or a used bike with better components to begin with.

Yesterday I had the opportunity to test an El Mariachi 2 during a Salsa demo, yesterday. I did one loop of some new trails on that bike. The handling was very different, in part due to handlebars that are way wide for me. It didn't feel any different on downhills, but when I did 2 more loops on my current bike I realized that there were a lot of uphills that I totally did not feel on the Salsa. My El Mar won't be quite as zippy as the one I demo'd (I think there's about a $500 difference in components, which is pretty huge), but I shouldn't be losing momentum as soon as a trail flattens and starts to rise, anymore.

That's something I had forgotten to mention. During a relay race this Summer I was just behind a pro endurance racer, Danielle Musto (who is, BTW, the NICEST pro athlete you could imagine. She shuts all the stereotypes down) and was actually gaining on her on a grassy downhill section. Afterwards we were laughing at how I sunk like a stone on the Cannondale, but as soon as we leveled-out she and her Ti El Mariachi were gone. So, yeah, that makes it seem unlikely that it's an issue of hubs or brakes rubbing, too.

congrats on a new bike!!

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

congrats on a new bike!!

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Thanks--I'm pretty tickled. And I was the girl who said for years that I was NEVER going to mountain bike. Before that I said that I was NEVER going to do cyclocross...and now it's like my favorite thing in the whole world! :D