Changing careers

I did office work (business manager) for 36 years. Never loved it, never hated it - it put food on the table & provided a fairly nice retirement. Working for most of my life put my brain into work-mode and being retired is...hard. OK, no eye rolling please, Your world becomes smaller and society is really geared for working people IMO. I've done volunteer work and will continue but I'm looking for something for the next half of my life. I'm 58 years young & figure I could work for another 20 years easily. Thought about really delving into personal training but I DO have arthritis and I'm not sure I could keep it up for 20 years. Ditto on teaching spinning. More than 3 classes/week hurts my back (stenosis in spine.)

Some kind of social work or nursing has always called me. Nursing school is extremely competitive and frankly, I think my age is a detriment. I started social work school but had to take a pause. The teaching/helping professions have always interested me. But again, my feeling is that my age is going to hold me back from entering a competitive school market. I know they aren't supposed to do that but it IS done. OTOH, I'm also a really good dog trainer because I can communicate with most dogs easily. It is weird, but I have an innate ability to figure out where their confusion is and work through it (sounds like I'm bragging but I don't mean to - just want to explain where I'm at.)

I could go back to my old place (at a University) part time where the money would be good & the job would be stable but a good friend said that would be stepping backwards. Yet, I think it would be different because (1) I would go part time and (2) I'd have no golden handcuffs - my continued employment would not affect my retirement. They would pick up my health insurance and that alone is worth $350/month. Another thing is that we can really use some extra cash because my pension has not increased, nor is it going to anytime soon but prices continue to climb. So, I hate to invest in a lot of schooling just to find out that a career isn't what I thought it was.

SO - my question: Has anybody ever made a dramatic career change and how did you decide what to do? What were your obstacles? Was it worth it?

OK, here goes a second time - I already had tried to post once before but it didn't take it.

Although I have not personally ever changed careers (only 1.5 years into my first!), I just want to say that you shouldn't let your age hold you back from applying to an academic program if it's something you really want to do. When I was in veterinary school, there was one woman in my year and one in the year below me that were over the age of 50. The woman in the year behind me (just graduated in May), is going to be 60 next year. Just because you are older doesn't mean you don't have something to contribute to the profession you want to enter. In fact, I wish I had more life experience. It would really help in relating to a lot of my clients - that and when you're older everyone assumes you know what you're doing. No one trusts the 26 year old doctor as much as the 50-something!

I agree that you shouldn't let age hold you back from applying to and entering into an academic program. IMO, the bigger issue is how you finance that education and what further education will do to your short- and long-term financial situation. Obviously, servicing debt into old age or dipping substantially into retirement savings isn't ideal. Only you and your SO (I think you have a SO, Dogmama) can decide whether the cost is worth it. Obviously, employment prospects, average salaries and how long you intend to stay in the job market before you retire again should ideally factor into the equation as well.

I offer the caveat that I work for the US Bankruptcy Court. To say I'm debt averse is an understatement. So, take my advice for what it's worth.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

I did office work (business manager) for 36 years. Never loved it, never hated it - it put food on the table & provided a fairly nice retirement. Working for most of my life put my brain into work-mode and being retired is...hard. OK, no eye rolling please, Your world becomes smaller and society is really geared for working people IMO. I've done volunteer work and will continue but I'm looking for something for the next half of my life. I'm 58 years young & figure I could work for another 20 years easily. Thought about really delving into personal training but I DO have arthritis and I'm not sure I could keep it up for 20 years. Ditto on teaching spinning. More than 3 classes/week hurts my back (stenosis in spine.)

Some kind of social work or nursing has always called me. Nursing school is extremely competitive and frankly, I think my age is a detriment. I started social work school but had to take a pause. The teaching/helping professions have always interested me. But again, my feeling is that my age is going to hold me back from entering a competitive school market. I know they aren't supposed to do that but it IS done. OTOH, I'm also a really good dog trainer because I can communicate with most dogs easily. It is weird, but I have an innate ability to figure out where their confusion is and work through it (sounds like I'm bragging but I don't mean to - just want to explain where I'm at.)

I could go back to my old place (at a University) part time where the money would be good & the job would be stable but a good friend said that would be stepping backwards. Yet, I think it would be different because (1) I would go part time and (2) I'd have no golden handcuffs - my continued employment would not affect my retirement. They would pick up my health insurance and that alone is worth $350/month. Another thing is that we can really use some extra cash because my pension has not increased, nor is it going to anytime soon but prices continue to climb. So, I hate to invest in a lot of schooling just to find out that a career isn't what I thought it was.

SO - my question: Has anybody ever made a dramatic career change and how did you decide what to do? What were your obstacles? Was it worth it?

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I haven't made a big career change...yet...but this is something I think about a lot, as I hit 55 and am eyeing what to do in my 2nd act career. I envision retiring from my present job (lawyer) as an opportunity to do something more fun and more personally fulfilling, even if it's less financially lucrative (and most assuredly, less hours). If you have a pension that is covering your bases, this is a huge opportunity to try new things. If I really wanted to, I'd absolutely consider going back to school and it sounds like you have the potential to do that through work. Why would your friend say going back to the university (to work) is a step back? It's not like you want to be on a career track for promotion to the boss again. If, as you say, a part time job at the university where the (1) money is good, (2) the job stable, (3) it would pick up your health insurance (a BIG + in my book), (4) it would not affect your retirement income, that is a win-win in my book, as long as you don't hate the job. I would imagine that it would also offer reduced and/or free tuition, so if you were so inclined, you might also go back to school, even if it's part time. That's a win-win-win if that is the path to a career that really excites you. I would never discourage anyone from going back to school to fulfill a dream job (I would, however, discourge people from amassing big debt to do it, though) and I think there are niches that, even starting at over 60, can be filled (and yes, I do employment law and I do understand the subtle age discrimination that exists), but I think that there are flexible job options out there. For example, my sister is a teacher, but she stayed home with their boys for several years. When she re-entered the job market, she didn't want to work full time, so she did science labs for home schooled kids, which was 2 days of work a week instead of full time. Then, she eventually moved from that to a great job at a private school that she loves (and she went back in her 40's for a master's degree). If you didn't want to work full time, you could substitute teach or provide private hourly tutoring and/or SAT prep.

In my dream job, I would open my own photography studio and do children's portraits and I think that is doable as a 2nd career. It marries my passion for photography (and long-time serious hobby) with a way to stay in work-mode, but with flexibility to work as much or as little as I want.

Let us know what you decide to do. I'm excited about your opportunities to redefine you.

I retired from practicing law some years ago and now am 57 years old. It took me a few years to settle into retirement. How long have you been retired? The first three years were awkward for me as I tried to find my identity that previously was so tied up in being a lawyer. I spent much time at loose ends, trying to figure out what to do. I spent too much time doing volunteer legal work, which was too much like real work and had many frustrations as I was working on lobbying for health care reform. But I finally started settling into retired life. I gave up the lobbying work. Now I would never return to the ties of work unless I absolutely had to. This is my time. I learned new things. Home improvement. Jewelry making. Birds and more birds. I volunteer at a state park. I am on a board for a hawk migration organization. I even cared for a new born baby for nearly a year while my niece recovered from depression. I worked on my health, losing weight and learning to bike. Next week I am traveling to Minneapolis to take another bike class and visit with dear old friends.

I am a much more rounded person now that I am not tied to the day in day out grind of work, work, work.

I am so damn lucky to have this opportunity. I am going to make the most of it.

If you need to work some because of finances I would not be the least bit worried about whether it is a step back. Think about what are are looking for from the job and whether it meets your goals. If it does, who cares if it is a step back. You have some security because you have a pension. That gives you the freedom to take a step back if you want to and if it meets your goals.

Dogmamma, I think my experience might help. We are the same age. I had originally intended to quit teaching (i.e. take my retirement $ and invest it myself) when my younger son graduated college. After he quit school and joined the Marines, I decided I would still quit 3 years later. It had been years since we needed my salary (which was very good) to live on, and we were using it to build our retirement and pay for college. I was interested in the same things as you. I even bought the study guide to take the ACE personal trainer exam. I wasted a lot of $! Even though I was a certified ACE group fitness instructor, I had let that lapse and the materials seemed daunting. So, I kept teaching and then I did just quit. That didn't turn out so well. I envisioned riding all of the time, but I didn't. All of my friends work and I've done my time with volunteer work, except for the stuff I do for AMC, which is mostly leading rides. I considered many quasi medical fields, but frankly, I have no science background or aptitude and I couldn't face taking chemistry, and other undergrad courses before applying to grad school. Heck, I already had an MA + 90 credits, as I was a PhD drop out, as well as a CAGS (post master's cert. for teachers) drop out. So, I went back and thought about what I really wanted to do when I was in college, which was to be a therapist. I didn't want to get a PhD, so I looked at 2 different degrees, clinical mental health counseling and social work. They have different routes to get to the same end, but I chose the clinical mental health counseling for two reasons. First, I wanted to do clinical work, not case work. Social workers get out with a masters, and then need to do various certifications to get licensed and to practice independently. Mental health counselors (and this varies by state), take the licensing exam right after they graduate and then can work, but with restrictions, until you get a certain number of hours. Of course MA has the strictest rules. We take the exam and then have to do the equivalent of 2 years full time work and then you are fully licensed, with privileges to practice alone.
I then had to decide where to go to school. I chose the expensive private university with a 3 year program over U Mass Boston, with a 2 year program, because I knew right away it was right for me. There were a good number of older students (we had a "club") who were career changers. And the majority of the students were in their 30s, not right out of college. I've been working for 1 year and 3 months, for a large social service agency, in their community mental health clinic. I will be taking my exam in a few weeks and I will have my hours at the end of June. I love my career, but it is very hard. You can't take it home with you. I had already learned that, in teaching, so it's not an issue for me. Self care is a must. And, I make my own schedule. I work 80% time and I will have plenty of hours... have free time during the week. Age is not seen as a detriment, from what I experienced in interviewing. I will be frank and say that being fit and looking a bit younger helps. I talked to the head of career services at my school and she was honest and said you don't look old or dress old and in this field experience is seen as wisdom.
Once I get my license, I will drop down to 2 days a week and I plan to work on the ACSM certification in wellness counseling and do that as my own thing on the side. There's enough desperate older, well off people who are willing to pay for this, with no insurance. I can keep my clinical skills up by working at an agency, as there's no way I want a full private practice.

Well, I'm still floundering about in retirement myself - but I did want to comment that if you're interested in a fitness career, I don't think you should see your age and arthritis as a detriment there. On the one hand, "senior fitness" is exploding - my gym can't find enough teachers to do the always-packed Silver Sneakers classes - and on the other hand, not too many trainers are well equipped to deal with masters athletes who may have anatomical and degenerative limitations, but still want to maintain a high level of competition. Depending on your level of education in the field it might take a lot more education to get there (personally, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know, and the less equipped I feel to teach :rolleyes:) - but if you're interested, I wouldn't categorically rule it out.

My mom goes to Silver Sneaker classes. She's 82. Actually, this is probably a very 'growth' field. Interesting.

Just a quick reply because something is boiling on the stove. As far as nursing goes, if it's something you're really interested in, please don't let your age get in the way. My doctor provides training and other opportunities for new graduates and those still in training. They may be qualified, but they're young and have few "real life" experiences. They are very clinical, and their interpersonal skills can be a little immature. I'm sure with the right work environment they will continue to learn (I hope) but I sometimes wish there was someone a little more mature to discuss things with. The younger people need us older ones to act as professional mentors. (although the ones in my workplace simply rebelled and now the situation appears hopeless :(). I hope I'm explaining this well without offending anyone. Good luck!

(I'm thinking of a vet tech for my next career which should be in a couple of years :) )

I guess the idea that there needs to be more out there for us +50 athletes is kind of part of my motivation to pursue the ACSM wellness certification. There are several ways to qualify for the training course and being a therapist/counselor is one of them. Older people are willing to pay for this service (at least around here) as they often have some life experience with what happens to your health when you don't stay active. I like the idea of combining my 2 interests (fitness and counseling), being able to have my own business, without having to deal with health insurance as a motivator. I always will have to do clinical work at least a few hours a week to stay current; besides I really like what I do.
I've thought about resurrecting my ACE certification (it's been 15 years), only to teach senior classes, or at least slightly easier versions of boot camp/spin, etc. But, I know what will happen, I'll get burned out, so that will stay a thought in my head!

Hmm, let me add yet another former lawyer's opinion. Is it that we have a propensity for the sport of cycling or for giving career advice?

Anyhow, there are some philosophical issues embedded in this discussion. Many people tend to tie their identities with their livelihoods; many with their titles. Some excellent points have been made here. I will just add that I don't believe you should be concerned about whether a job seems like a step back, whatever that may mean to you. This touches upon how we perceive work. Is it merely a means to fund your existence, or rather a career that satisfies what you believe may be one of your purposes in life? I won't delve deeper into this except to suggest that you analyze how you think of "work", "purpose". Merely joining the W-2 fray just because you think the world is "geared for working people" may lead you to act summarily without allowing for thorough consideration of alternatives to your financial and emotional needs. Cantril and Bumstead examined our quest to understand our purpose through work in Reflection on the Human Venture. To question one’s meaning, one’s purpose, can be like opening Pandora’s Box. Tolstoy arrived at a great despondency, what he labeled as his “life arrest” in his essay My Confession, when he did so.

I do echo what Indysteel has expressed about debt. I am adverse to personal loans. Home mortgage is acceptable; however, I have strong opinions on this which are outside the scope of this discussion. I do caution against taking out a large student loan without heavy deliberation. I'm not saying it's absolutely bad; just think long and hard about signing onto that. I saw many lawyers who felt trapped in their career options because they had the anchor of their law school debt limiting their ability to leave firm life shackles. After spending too many all-nighters at the firm office as a corporate attorney during deal closings and giving too much of myself to a firm and clients, I had the freedom to leave that lifestyle because I had no debt.

I think goldfinch offers very perceptive thoughts - I agree with everything she's said; in fact, all of it resonated with my own beliefs and opinions. It takes some time to become accustomed to nontraditional work-days, but now that I am independent of an employer, I love it. I find it completely freeing and wonderful. But, then again, I was never one to find that work met any social needs for me. Many people miss the work place because they use it as an avenue for socialization; I never did. I became a lawyer because of the intellectual stimulation. I saw the constant pressure to attend firm functions, parties as an intrusion into my personal time. We all have differing emotional and financial needs. Just offering another opinion.

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Originally Posted by SFLiz

Is it that we have a propensity for the sport of cycling or for giving career advice?

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Ha, that's funny, I always said law school was the last refuge of people devoid of creative ideas about what to do with our lives. It sure was for me, anyway. ;)

/drift

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Ha, that's funny, I always said law school was the last refuge of people devoid of creative ideas about what to do with our lives. It sure was for me, anyway. ;)

/drift

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Amen, sister.

I actively discourage anyone from going these days. Maybe I've practiced too long. I am burned out and ready to do something else as well, but then I run into problem A, which is 'what do I want to do with my life when I grow up', all over again.

Wow, as usual, my TE sisters come through in spades.

First - education - as long as I attend a state university, I go for $5/semester. I retired with full benefits. So, no debt accrual.

Social work vs mental health counseling - sadly in AZ, the only thing available is a BSW or MSW through Arizona State Univ. If I wanted to do mental health counseling, it would have to be through Univ of Phoenix and that is more money than I want to spend. A friends amassed a student loan of $60K there & came out with a masters in counseling that will take her a long time to repay. Mental health counseling with an MSW requires 2000+ hours of internship. So, I'd be looking at 3-4 years before I could be a "real" counselor & take insurance. For me, that's too long.

Returning to the University - I would take basically a droid job. Crunch the numbers or manage some small project - nothing on the scale of what I left. I don't want the hassle or responsibility because I've been there/done that. I do think a half time job would be fine and if they paid my insurance (depends on FTE) that would be even better. I WAS one of those people who liked the social interaction with my peers & can get along with just about anybody. The position I left, senior business manager, was extremely difficult due to budget cuts. I was working 60 hours/week when I finally retired. Middle management sucks. None of the authority with all of the responsibility.

Personal training has always interested me but the gyms seem to employ 20-somethings with no wrinkles. If I did PT, I'd go for ACSM because it is the gold standard and I think it can open doors. I've always wondered if a middle age overweight woman would rather have another middle age woman working with her or a young boy who may not understand physical/mental/emotional limitations.
Here is a footnote to this - I have a good friend who is a Reiki master. I always thought that Reiki + personal training would be a great combination. Especially if I learned how to transfer energy. Just a thought.

Interesting about the lawyers on the boards - I've met so many burned out lawyers that I'm glad I never went to law school. DH is a private investigator - mostly murders. People seem to think that it's similar to TV dramas & it isn't. DH is still actively working. I thought the agreement when I retired was that he would cut back too but that ain't happening anytime soon. I'm not a happy house frau. I'd rather work & pay somebody to clean my house.

I'm relieved to hear about people who also flounder in retirement. My working friends roll their eyes at me. I used to think the same thing and I do enjoy my freedom. But I would like to have a purpose. I've done lots of volunteer work and will continue, but it's not the same as a job where people expect you to be there & depend on you.

Ok...a little OT here... I was just being bugged by my job, and read this thread, and shouted to Brewer (in the next room) Maybe I could become a fitness instructor! and he replied enthusiastically, "I think you'd make a fine chicken inspector!"

I was lucky, Dogmama. I did take out a 60K loan, even though I didn't have to; my choice was take the loan out and not cut my lifestyle, or take the loan and pay it back quickly. And, I waited to change careers until we could afford it with no drastic changes. DH makes a very,very good salary and bonuses, so the loan will be paid off in February. I don't know how others do it, as I am making doo-doo money now. Yes, the difference in social work and counseling is how you get those hours. I need 3,600 hours after my degree, but at least I am getting paid! I also had internship requirements, which I got credits for. Only one is required, but I did 2 internships, as I felt as a career changer, I needed as much experience as I could get. I was employed within a month of graduation. I am glad I went to Lesley University, as I see the differences in those who went to other schools.
Taking out loans and going to private colleges is par for the course here. Not so, in AZ. Hey, when I went to ASU, I paid 340 dollars a year...

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

I'm relieved to hear about people who also flounder in retirement. My working friends roll their eyes at me. I used to think the same thing and I do enjoy my freedom. But I would like to have a purpose. I've done lots of volunteer work and will continue, but it's not the same as a job where people expect you to be there & depend on you.

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I can totally relate, Dogmama! I retired last August (2011) a week before we moved down to Belize. Since then I've been blogging, and we have been traveling whenever finances allow, but I have been bored a lot of the time. Not used to that! I recently volunteered to be the webmaster for the local humane society, but the amount of time it requires is minimal (5-6 hours a week or so). I am not "officially" allowed to work or volunteer here since we are not permanent residents, and the government does not want anyone on a tourist visa to take away work that a local might be able to perform, even on a volunteer basis, which is so strange to me. But no one thinks they'll notice or care about a behind-the-scenes webmaster role, so I was willing to take that on.

It's definitely a very odd-feeling transition to suddenly not be working after working my entire adult life. I was used to being "needed", being a part of a team, drawing a good paycheck, having insurance through my job, and all those little perks that come with it. I was also very, very tired of the politics and even of the work, which, by the end, was just changing so fast and becoming less and less engaging for me than it had been in the earlier years. I was a software engineer in the telecom industry, and it's really a job that is geared more towards the 20- and 30-somethings who are willing to put in the killer hours and are up on all the latest technology. In my last five years or so on the job, I felt old and out-paced by the younger folks being hired. I was ready to leave and overall don't miss it, just certain aspects of it. If I were offered my old job back, I wouldn't take it.

I read a lot of articles online and found that it's incredibly normal to feel a real loss of "self" when you retire from a career you've done for years or decades. It's not just us. It takes time, too, to find that next identity. I am still working on that part. But I do know that even though I miss the structure of work and many of my co-workers, I don't miss having to go to work every day, having to get up with an alarm clock, the politics, or being told what to do all the time. I can't imagine ever going back to that.

I hope you find your way, whatever it turns out to be. From what you've told us, I think working with dogs would be a fabulous niche for you. Once we are no longer traveling much, I would like to volunteer to work with a Boston Terrier rescue group myself. There are so many opportunities to make a difference that do not involve drawing a salary! I don't think I'd ever go back to school or start another paying career unless I needed to financially. I feel very fortunate that I don't "need" to work for money as I was able to earn a good salary and sock a lot of it away over the years, and DH and I have lived below our means for our entire marriage (27 years so far).

Best of luck as you figure this all out!

Does anybody ever feel the least bit guilty? Somedays I feel I should be thanking my lucky stars that I don't have to work - and believe me - I do NOT miss the alarm clock, constant pressure etc. as Emily said. I do like my freedom to go to yoga in the middle of the morning or take an extra long bike ride. But my still employed friends are really envious that I retired so early (age 54.)

To my defense, I worked 36 years in a job that became increasingly more difficult. There were days that I'd burst into tears as I pulled into the parking space because the pressure was enormous (budget cuts, demanding faculty, out of touch administrators, lackadaisical staff). I always felt that when I retired, I would remember that I earned it.

But there are times that I feel like I'm too young and I should still be in the mill (slowly being ground to a pulp?). One of my huge goals was to become more centered and calm. I thought it would happen a lot sooner.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

Does anybody ever feel the least bit guilty? Somedays I feel I should be thanking my lucky stars that I don't have to work - and believe me - I do NOT miss the alarm clock, constant pressure etc. as Emily said. I do like my freedom to go to yoga in the middle of the morning or take an extra long bike ride. But my still employed friends are really envious that I retired so early (age 54.)

To my defense, I worked 36 years in a job that became increasingly more difficult. There were days that I'd burst into tears as I pulled into the parking space because the pressure was enormous (budget cuts, demanding faculty, out of touch administrators, lackadaisical staff). I always felt that when I retired, I would remember that I earned it.

But there are times that I feel like I'm too young and I should still be in the mill (slowly being ground to a pulp?). One of my huge goals was to become more centered and calm. I thought it would happen a lot sooner.

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Yes, I feel a bit guilty at times. I am "only" 51 and most of my work peers are a little older than me, so I was one of the "younger" ones and retiring before them. But our life circumstances were different. The majority of them had children to support through high school and college. We are childless (not by choice, but infertility). And some of them had vacation homes or much more expensive cars, clothes, etc. than we did. Most went out to eat a lot more than us, got regular massages, hair colorings, and had fancier toys (iPhones, etc.) We were down to one car, biked whenever we could, and I took the bus to work my last year there. So, in some cases it was their choice to work longer to support their lifestyles. In some cases they really needed to work to put kids through school. So I don't feel that guilty, just fortunate that I was able to get off the treadmill. Especially when a bunch of them got laid off just 8 months after I left voluntarily. I was so relieved that I got to walk out of there on my terms, with two parties and a cake, rather than be shown the door 8 months later. I know I would have been devastated to have my long career end that way and taken it very personally.

I mostly feel like I earned my early retirement. I did work hard, shed tears as well, and I scrimped on many things over the years to be able to retire early. And it's not like we're living like kings now. We do live in what many would consider an enviable location, but we live simply, don't have a car, and our expenses are quite low. Our only splurge is travel, and even that we do on the cheap, taking local buses whenever possible and staying in inexpensive places. We can start drawing on my DH's 401K next year and over time more of our retirement funds will start opening up to us, but for now we're living very carefully. So do I really feel guilty -- not so much. :D Guilt is certainly no reason to continue working if you don't want to or have to!

Although I "retired," went back to school, and now work in a career where I make less than my 30 year old son, I do not feel guilty. Why should I feel guilty when our money has been earned through our own hard work and education?
Although teaching is not thought of as a high paying career, I was making a high five figure salary when I quit. Believe me, I did have a problem giving that up. Not because it meant changes in my lifestyle, but because mentally, I knew I could damn well take care of myself. And that was very, very important to me. For the last five years or so of my teaching career, I never thought once about spending money on something for myself. All of a sudden, I felt dependent on someone. I am over that, now, but it was a very big deal at the time. Like Emily, I was bored all of the time during the one semester I was doing nothing, and that played into my whole illness thing which happened at the same time. I even went back and did a long term sub job the next semester, which really solidified my decision to go back to school. I went on the interviews and got accepted into the program while I was doing this job.
If people want to be jealous because we can live the way we do on my DH's salary, so be it. His path to a highly paid professional career was very untraditional and involved owning his own business when we met (a lunch truck), going back to school at the same time we were young marrieds, had a baby, and a nice new house. The semester before he graduated, he sold his business to finish school and stay home with DS #1, Financially, it set us back for years, but it was so worth it. When he got his first professional job in 1983, I was making more money, as a teacher! Things were good, until we moved back here in 1990, where it again, took us years to catch up, and involved living in a community with schools that weren't so great and definitely feeling like we didn't belong. Finally, in the late nineties, things started coming together. By the time DS #1 went to college we were debt free, which was our goal. We sacrificed so our kids could be brought up the way I was brought up, and this played a huge part in the decision for us to move back to MA. Life was very easy for us in AZ, where not every person has a masters degree and family money.
I see my career as my "giving back" career. Although teaching falls squarely in the human services area, I spent a lot of time taking classes, away from my young kids, to maximize my salary when I needed it. And, I definitely would have burned out if I had been counseling as a young person. I don't see how a younger person could do this without some life experience perspective. I've had several clients verify my thoughts here, too. While they don't know how old I am, they know I have adult kids.
I am so much happier having a flexible schedule. I can ride my bike during the week, go out for coffee with a friend, and schedule a hair cut on Monday mornings. I work very hard 3 days a week, and just a little 2 days a week. It's perfect for me.

I also did the "scrimp & save" for many years so that I wouldn't be cash strapped in retirement. We don't live in a big house, have fancy cars or go to dinner often (one exception - my Project One Trek but I road my last steel bike for 17 years!.) AND, I have to remind myself, that unlike so many of my peers, I hung in with my job because I had a pension coming at full retirement - called "golden handcuffs." We did pay off the house & the car loan shortly after I retired so we could be debt free. Our vacations are not frequent. The only reason I don't clip coupons is because I don't eat sugar puffs, boxed mac & cheese, etc.:rolleyes:

Many of my friends jump from job to job & now at ages 50-60, they have very little savings & their retirement will come mostly from their social security check. Believe me, there were days/weeks/months that I wanted to say, Screw You and walk out, but I didn't. At the University, if you aren't faculty or a student, you are on the bottom of the food chain. I was considered management, had the fiscal and human resources responsibilities for a school but yet if Joe Blow Faculty member was trying to get a grant in on December 24, (because he procrastinated until the last minute) I had to be there, crunching the numbers & putting it together for submission (it happened - and then the jerk decided at the last minute to NOT submit!) So, yeah, looking back, I did earn it.

OK - so how do you handle the jealousy? I'm riding today with a friend who believes that I sit around all day long & do my nails. I get the "Gee, it must be nice!" comments. Maybe I need to get different friends. :o Yet, I do volunteer work and keep really busy with the things I always wanted to do when I was doing the 8-5. DH is a cancer survivor and diabetic, so I spend time cooking because I'm a huge believer in food as medicine. I actually have time to work with my dog in obedience & agility. And it goes on. So, my nails are usually fairly ragged & certainly not as nice as when I was working. A computer keyboard is much easier on cuticles!

in my circle of friends, I am referred to as a Star Fish - when a starfish loses a leg it simply grows a new one. The economic changes of the last five years hit me full force so I have learned to grow "legs"

Not to rain on the career changing ideas as I went from being a Social Worker into many careers related to the real estate world. What I discovered is going back to the world of social services (at least in Idaho) has not panned out for me - I am 56. I have not "worked" for someone other than myself and my DH since 2008.

On a positive note, I love my "job". We scaled down our lives dramatically and live above our little bike shop. Our business model is such that we can take long weekends to do what we want, and we should be able to "work" for many, many years to come.
On the down side, we did have to kick the kids to the curb and they have way more school debt than we intended but when life throws lemons I do my best to make lemonade.

Good Luck Dogmama, go where your heart takes you and vow for no more careers that leave you sobbing in the parking lot.

As for dealing with other's jealousy, Dogmama, you just have to choose not to internalize other people's issues. When they say "it must be nice, just smile and say "yes, it is". You owe no apologies or explanations, and you certainly shouldn't feel guilty. Who cares what they think you do all day? If someone in your life becomes obnoxious about it, confront them. But by the same token, I'd examine your own reaction to the more innocent of the comments. By your own admission, you have mixed feelings about your own retirement. Try not to feel defensive about it when someone expresses a bit a harmless envy.

+1, Indy.
I haven't encountered any jealousy, just my one friend (the one who I have written about here, that I can't tolerate much anymore) who told another mutual friend that she couldn't understand why I would choose to go back to work/school when I didn't have to. In a way, she's jealous, because she always talks about what she is going to do, but then says she "can't."
My dad worked until he was 85 (he's almost 88), mostly to supplement his social security, but also to keep him busy. He's going a little nuts now, being at home. My grandfather worked until the day he died, at 91, from the after effects of a car accident. His colleagues were constantly asking him when he was going to either retire or die (:eek:), as they wanted his customers. He sold scrap metal although he had gone to law school, and he actually was not that financially successful until he was well into his 60s.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

OK - so how do you handle the jealousy? I'm riding today with a friend who believes that I sit around all day long & do my nails. I get the "Gee, it must be nice!" comments. Maybe I need to get different friends. :o Yet, I do volunteer work and keep really busy with the things I always wanted to do when I was doing the 8-5. DH is a cancer survivor and diabetic, so I spend time cooking because I'm a huge believer in food as medicine. I actually have time to work with my dog in obedience & agility. And it goes on. So, my nails are usually fairly ragged & certainly not as nice as when I was working. A computer keyboard is much easier on cuticles!

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I get this sometimes too, though the vast majority of friends and family seem to be genuinely happy for us (though I am sure there are a few who talk behind our backs). When I do get "comments", though, I usually say something like "Yes, it is nice. But it's also a little scary not having a regular paycheck, only having catastrophic health insurance, and to be living on our savings rather than continuing to sock money away. There are pluses and minuses to either way."

That usually shuts 'em up. We gained a lot in retiring early (and in our situation, we're both retired, so I am not living off my DH's salary or benefits), but we gave up certain things that most people in our society value as well. So it's a double-edged sword, and once people think about it, many are not yet ready to retire on the kind of terms we were willing to retire on.

I don't think I get any serious jealousy. People make comments, sure, but it doesn't really interfere with my friendships with people who are still working. Come to think of it - any more, most of the people I know are retired or semi-retired, just because I do weekday bike rides and daytime yoga classes. :p

As far as guilt, it goes the other way for me. I would really prefer to be pulling in a paycheck just because of the relationship dynamics of being supported by DH. I could never come close to his income, but at least I could feel like I was contributing. But in this economy, I don't feel like I have a right to take a job that someone else needs.

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Originally Posted by malkin

Ok...a little OT here... I was just being bugged by my job, and read this thread, and shouted to Brewer (in the next room) Maybe I could become a fitness instructor! and he replied enthusiastically, "I think you'd make a fine chicken inspector!"

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Awesome. :D

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Originally Posted by malkin

Ok...a little OT here... I was just being bugged by my job, and read this thread, and shouted to Brewer (in the next room) Maybe I could become a fitness instructor! and he replied enthusiastically, "I think you'd make a fine chicken inspector!"

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Hah! Never thought about being a chicken inspector, but thanks for all the great posts ladies. I'm retiring next month and I appreciate reading all the different perspectives. Lots to think about.

Taking a big risk and changing directions is scary, but it was one of the best things that happened to me career-wise. I was laid off from my college administrator job, floundered for a year and then eventually listened to my heart which kept yearning to be set free from the office setting and to train my hands to help people through massage. I'm six months into school and have never felt so fulfilled and eager to start each day.

I know I'm a little late to the party here, but I have a few thoughts to contribute as the queen of career change.

Many of you are familiar with my story. I started out with a BA in Sociology, spent 7.5 years in retail management and then quit because I was dissatisfied. I ended up back in school (in my early 30's) to take some math-related courses (since I'd applied for my MBA years earlier and was wait-listed for 'no proven math abilities"). Somehow, one class let to another and before I knew it, I was thinking about an engineering degree instead. I had to take so many back classes that I ended up with a BS and an MS in 5 years. I started my career as an electrical engineer before I'd defended my thesis. Oh, and I got straight A's in math, so those other schools missed out! ;)

As an engineer, I've worked for three companies, doing essentially variations on the same job. While it was challenging enough for me, I never found it truly fulfilling at all. I began to flounder. This was about a year and a half ago. I loved my current company, where I currently lived...but I was pretty much never going to be the star-pupil engineer that I was capable of being because I just wasn't that interested in the job. I seriously considered vet school at that point. I was investigating the remedial classwork that I'd need in order to get in and was trying to figure out the finances when my current role got created at my company. I'm now the College Program Manager and I get to use both my technical background AND my business background to create a college program for our company (the company I love!) and have a huge impact. The timing couldn't have been better and I am 150% happier now. I am on campuses and interacting with students, professors, post-docs and the like all the time. Do NOT let age deter you. In fact, since I do all the recruiting for recent grads for my company, I can tell you that a candidate with life experience AND a relevant degree is significantly more in demand that the young person with just the degree. And this is in an extremely high tech, cutting-edge industry.

In addition to all of the above, we bought and fell in love with small farming and animal husbandry aobut 5 years ago. I spent my whole life ignoring the idea of 'retirement' because I had no idea what I would do with myself. I couldn't even imagine not working, not being career-driven, etc. Until I found what I loved...which is this farming. So my husband and I have taken some pretty drastic steps lately to change our lives and plans and retire in 10 years so that we can farm again. For the first time in my life, I'm looking forward to retirement!

What is funny is that I might mention our plans to do the farming thing after we retire to people, but I never mention that the goal is to do it in 10 years. I just let people think we are crazy enough to want to do this at 65. ;-) You are right that retiring younger is often viewed as decadent or privileged and it's sometimes a bit uncomfortable. I get that. But you've worked hard to get to where you are now, so don't let others rain on your parade!

So what is my point? Let's see.
1) do not let age deter you from furthering your education or choosing a new career.
2) making a career change is challenging but certainly in my case, completely worth it.
3) do what you love.

Dogmama you seem to love dogs and maybe dog training..I heard of program where one takes vision oriented dogs for temporary training or something similar. That would be a real value... Hope you find your passion.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

Dogmama you seem to love dogs and maybe dog training..I heard of program where one takes vision oriented dogs for temporary training or something similar. That would be a real value... Hope you find your passion.

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Wow - so funny that you said this.

Several evenings ago, I showed up at my dog training class to find the owner fuming. It seems that the instructor just quit with no notice. The owner (whom I known casually for many years) was stuck. Long story short - as of next Monday, I'm teaching those classes! They range from beginning and intermediate obedience up to competition level AKC showing.

Simultaneously, I answered a Craig's list ad for a spin instructor at an exclusive "boutique style" fitness club. Emails have been exchanged and frankly, I have a bad vibe about this. I would LOVE to work at an upscale fitness facility, but I have this heart-feeling that something is wrong. The owner seems pushy, unresponsive to my questions and disorganized. Major red flags.

So - my basic tenet about putting out the intention then waiting & watching has borne fruit again. At least for now.

That's fantastic about the dog training position. Isn't it funny how some things just fall into our laps? As for the fitness club, just listen to your gut. I hate dealing with unresponsive and disorganized people, so I'm with you on the red flags.

That's wonderful news about the dog training position just dropping into your lap. Sometimes things are just meant to be and the universe provides!

Hope it goes well for you... I think it will!

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

Sometimes things are just meant to be and the universe provides!

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I totally agree.

That's great news, Dogmama! I hope the dog training turns out to be a wonderful opportunity for you!

That's great. I agree with Emily, too!

Thank you all for your input. It really helped me sort things out. Sometimes I get caught in the squirrel cage of my brain & make myself crazy.

The woman who owns the place is very flexible & wants me to draw up a curriculum for each level of obedience. I already have this from a previous dog training position. It's good to follow a format because 10 people & their dogs in a beginning class can be challenging for the first few classes!

This has been a interesting thread to read.

Dogmama, glad to hear that there may be some windows opening up for you with the dog training.

I am 56, and teach middle school science. Theoretically could retire from teaching in July of this year. But the AZ state retirement isn't enough to live on with our current expenses ( about 6 more years on our mortgage, kids not totally independent) so I can't just retire. I'm finding teaching is more and more demanding as a profession. Classes are bigger, so much emphasis is on test scores, and money is pretty tight. I am in a district that has been ranked #1 in the state, and they expect a lot of the teachers. It can be more physically demanding now that I'm a little older - sometimes it's harder to hear students, for example and I'm on my feet all day.

I have been trying to think about what kind of career change I might be able to make and not sure. I have my MS in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, and worked as a field biologist before becoming a teacher. I don't know what kind of opportunities are out there for a person with my skills and background.

My husband works at a community college and I can take classes for $10 plus books- but am not sure if they offer an career programs that interest me. I briefly looked at the para-legal program but don't think I'm really suited for it, and heard there aren't that many opportunities any way.

I did speak to the executive direction of the Tucson Audubon Society (large, well-organized, well-funded, many programs), as I have lots of natural history education and research experience but of course the job opportunities might not come up at an appropriate time.

Any way- just wanted to join in the discussion...

azfiddle - not sure if this is something you'd like. My brother was a teacher in New York, he semi-retired and now does online tutoring. I'm not even sure how he got into that, but he enjoyed it.

He's taking a break right now, he and SIL are in Botswana for a year while she does research and teaches at the University.

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Originally Posted by azfiddle

I did speak to the executive direction of the Tucson Audubon Society (large, well-organized, well-funded, many programs), as I have lots of natural history education and research experience but of course the job opportunities might not come up at an appropriate time.

Any way- just wanted to join in the discussion...

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OK, this is a little "woo woo out there crunchy granola" That's my warning.

I like to put out the intention to the Universe/God/Higher Power. So, if I were in your position, I might say/think/feel that I want to do something that uses my talents, education and will be fulfilling. Then wait and watch.

I've done some things that I thought I'd enjoy but they didn't work out. It's hard (for me) to abandon things without feeling like a failure/quitter or other lovely things society heaps on in spades. For example, I did dog training with a fairly well known person in town. I found that she was riddled with insecurities, used very harsh methods that I couldn't do, was demeaning, belittling and moody. After several months, I had to leave. Luckily, the person I'm working for now is well aware of this other trainer & understands why I left. I also taught spinning for quite awhile but found that 6AM just didn't work for my body. So, I had to say, "I love to teach, but need a later class." That served me well when the boutique-style fitness club approached me about teaching a M/W/F 5:45 AM class (BTW, I'm subbing for them now - perfect way to find out if they are a "fit" for me.)

So, my experience has been to put out the intention & trust that it will be answered. And, know that you may go down several paths. I am not sure that I'm on the right path, but I'm willing to take the risk. The key (for me, again) is to not beat myself up when I think I've made a mistakes. After all, mistakes are just situations that we don't learn from.

Enough of this philosophy. I'm going riding.:)