Salsa's recommended size chart...?

While I'm intrigued by the upcoming Cannondale Tango 29er for shorty girls, I'm also keeping my eye on the Salsa El Mariachi, which looks like it could be very do-able for me in terms of standover. My inseam (crotch to floor) is 30" and I am just <5'4".

Salsa's sizing chart suggests I should look at XS frames, but I'm currently borrowing a friend's older 26er Salsa in an XS and it feels REALLY cramped to me. A friend of ours who is a couple of inches shorter than I am and has ridden the bike feels the same way. She and I both tend to like a more aggressive positioning on our bikes, too.

Last Winter I borrowed one of our LBS's demo Mukluks in a size small and felt very comfortable on that. So I wonder if the fit of the El Mariachi is likely to be similar.

I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on a 29er, yet, but am doing my research. I may or may not be able to test-ride both bikes prior to riding (because I'm a shorty and it's hard to find little bikes in stock, aside from WSD bikes), so I figure I should have some real-world input, if possible.

I can only offer my own experience as a 5'4 girl (I have a 29" inseam to your 30). My Santa Cruz--a 26er--is more comparable to the XS Salsa than the S. I think I'd feel too stretched out on the S Salsa. But hopefully the shop and Salsa can help you navigate this decision. How does the geometry on your current 26er compare? If I recall, that bike is too small for you.

And in what way did you feel cramped on the XS Salsa that your friend owns? Without knowing how she has the bike set up, it's hard to know for certain whether the frame itself was too blame. For instance, if she's running a short stem and has her seat forward, I can see why you might feel cramped.

Do you have any idea whether your femurs are long/short relative to your total leg length? This is the issue that I have that dictates a lot in terms of frame size and bike set up. My legs are short, but my femurs are relatively long. For most bikes to work for me, I have to use an offset seat post and put the saddle fairly far back on the rails. Once I do that, it effectively lengthens my reach to the bars. It make sense, generally, for me to get the smallest frame that I can otherwise make work for me; otherwise, the reach is too long once my saddle is in the right position. If you have this same issue, then I would probably get the XS.

Those size charts never work for me, in part because I'm all arms and legs. I really have to go by what's in the geometry chart and compare those numbers to those of other bikes that I've comfortably ridden.

FWIW, I'm 5'4" and on a small (16") Salsa with a ~57 cm virtual top tube. Sounds ridiculous, I know, but it works for me. http://salsacycles.com/bikes/el_mariachi1/

Indy's post makes a lot of sense.

Well, no wonder my friend's Salsa 26er (Ala Carte) feels so small...I just determined that it's the 12.5" size (with an effective 20.5 top tube), so it's like an XXS! We had to yank the seat post as high as it would go and it could probably still stand to go a bit higher.

I can't find the exact size chart for my '09 Cdale F5 Feminine, but I assume it's pretty similar to their current WSD Trail SL in a petite/XS. That has a 13.8" seat tube and 20.5" horiz. top tube (so the same as the 12.5" Ala Carte). The S in that bike has a 15" seat tube and 21.7 top tube.

The S Cdale WSD Trail SL has a 15" seat tube and 21.7" horizontal TT.

These are all 26ers, so I don't know how differently the set-up/fit would be on comparable 29ers.

The size S Mukluk I rode has a 15" seat tube (same as the XS, actually) and a 22.8" effective top tube. The XS is 22.2", so not a whole lot of difference, there. Standover was good on the S.

The S El Mariachi has a 15" seat tube and 22.83" top tube. The XS has a 14" seat tube and 22.24" effective top tube.

So...not a lot of difference between XS and S in the Mukluk or El Mariachi. I guess my biggest concern is toe overlap (I wear a wide 8.5 women's...40 men's shoe and tend to position my cleats pretty far back on my shoe, putting my foot more forward on the pedals). I didn't have it with the S Mukluk.

Wheelbase for the XS vs. S is 42.0-42.7 vs. 42.2-42.8 (I think the range is due to the ability to switch between a rear cluster or SS)...so, again, very little difference.

I don't know if my femurs are relatively long, but I sorta suspect that they are.

Sounds like the small is the way to go. Medium is probably pushing it. Although your Cannondale looks pretty sweet as I checked out your blog.

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Originally Posted by Bethany1

Sounds like the small is the way to go. Medium is probably pushing it. Although your Cannondale looks pretty sweet as I checked out your blog.

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Thanks! My 11 year old DS has fallen in love with that bike. It's the only one he wants to ride. He's pretty fearless on it and it's a pretty good fit for him, too. By next Summer it should be a perfect fit, unless he grows a ton (which could happen, though I'm totally not ready for him to be almost as tall as I am!).

Yeah, I think a M would definitely be too big. My guess is standover would be an issue with that, too.

Do the small Mukluk and small El Mar have the same seat tube angle??

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Originally Posted by Becky

Do the small Mukluk and small El Mar have the same seat tube angle??

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73 on the El Mariachi and 73.5 on the Mukluk...so pretty close.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

73 on the El Mariachi and 73.5 on the Mukluk...so pretty close.

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So the Mukluk is effectively ~23.3", if it had a 73 degree STA. (Someone feel free to correct my math here- I always have to think this through!)

If the small Mukluk fit well enough, it sounds like you'd be fine with the small El Mar.

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Originally Posted by Becky

So the Mukluk is effectively ~23.3", if it had a 73 degree STA. (Someone feel free to correct my math here- I always have to think this through!)

If the small Mukluk fit well enough, it sounds like you'd be fine with the small El Mar.

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Ha, I can't do the math AT ALL (I pretty much only passed Geometry because my teacher didn't want to deal with me again, ha! :p), so your skillz impress me. :D

Anyone know what the small 29er (specifically El Mariachi Ti) works out to? I want to add a hardtail to my stable and ti is my dream but it must be a 29er. It looks to me like it would be too big in comparison to a Specialized Small HT 29er which I know the Stumpjumper fits me well. :( Our team mostly rides Specialized but I don't want carbon. We are supposed to race what they sell meaning Salsa or Independent Fabrication is my only Ti option. This is mostly a "maybe next year" fantasy but curious.

I believe there is an XS Ti Mariachi, too, if the S would be too big.

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

Anyone know what the small 29er (specifically El Mariachi Ti) works out to? I want to add a hardtail to my stable and ti is my dream but it must be a 29er. It looks to me like it would be too big in comparison to a Specialized Small HT 29er which I know the Stumpjumper fits me well. :( Our team mostly rides Specialized but I don't want carbon. We are supposed to race what they sell meaning Salsa or Independent Fabrication is my only Ti option. This is mostly a "maybe next year" fantasy but curious.

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I've only been on the older Salsas, which ran pretty big. My Fargo is a small, my C'dale 26 inch is a medium and I was looking for a small mamasita or dos niner when I found my current (small) Niner EMD. But...haven't tried this year's models.

I recall reading somewhere that the Salsas of maybe pre-'11 were larger than the ones of the last couple model years.

I just noticed that they don't offer an XS in the Ti, though--just the steel. Maybe that will change for '13, though...? Salsa's big release event for the '13 models is this weekend, so maybe we'll find that they've come out with a S for this coming model year.

I'm 5'3 and the XS El Mariachi feels bigger than my small epic, but it's doable. They only make the XS in steel If I recall. For Ti you have to go with a S.

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Originally Posted by Loraura

I'm 5'3 and the XS El Mariachi feels bigger than my small epic, but it's doable. They only make the XS in steel If I recall. For Ti you have to go with a S.

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The more I read, the more I think their sizing chart recommendations are right and a S would be too big for me, too (I'm just under 5'4").

Speaking of Salsa...their 2013 offerings...oh em gee!!! :eek:

I need a Beargrease and a Colossal Ti and an El Mariachi...

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Speaking of Salsa...their 2013 offerings...oh em gee!!! :eek:

I need a Beargrease and a Colossal Ti and an El Mariachi...

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I don't think they make a bike that I don't want!! :)

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I don't think they make a bike that I don't want!! :)

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I know...so dangerous!!! It's killing me that there will be an ORANGE MUKLUK!!! And I don't even want a SS, but there will be a ltd ed. El Mariachi, also in orange...and that Beargrease is HOT!!! A friend of ours converts her Ti Mukluk to a hardtail mtn. bike for use during the warmer months....I'd love to do that, but it would still be a really pricey proposition. My guess is that the Beargrease will be $$.

I NEED a Beargrease.
Bad.

I wonder if we got enough of us together that wanted Salsa's, if we could get a group discount?

Hey Salsa . . . want to strike a deal? Think about it.

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Originally Posted by limewave

I wonder if we got enough of us together that wanted Salsa's, if we could get a group discount?

Hey Salsa . . . want to strike a deal? Think about it.

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I'm in for a Spearfish or maybe a Horsethief.

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Originally Posted by limewave

I wonder if we got enough of us together that wanted Salsa's, if we could get a group discount?

Hey Salsa . . . want to strike a deal? Think about it.

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Ha, that's what I was thinking, too...if I got a mtn bike and fat bike at the same time would they give me a bulk discount...? :p

Put me down for a

1) Beargrease
2) TI Colossal (or maybe a Warbird . . . can't decide!)

I'm really dying to see what they do with the El Mariachi for this year...I wish that orange would be an option for the 3, but I have my doubts, since they are already doing orange on the SS El Mar. I like the green, so that would be OK. Though I'll probably end up with the Cannondale Tango, which isn't nearly as cool, but will likely end up costing us hundreds less for a comparable bike.

My real dream HT is a Lynskey but my sponsor doesn't sell them I was looking at Salsa. It is bummer they haven't embraced the smaller 29ers. I really want to build up a race HT in the future, steel is okay but I really lust for Ti. If I wanted steel I might go Niner instead. But this all just dreaming until next summer, this winter I will be racing my Epic in marathons.

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

My real dream HT is a Lynskey but my sponsor doesn't sell them I was looking at Salsa. It is bummer they haven't embraced the smaller 29ers. I really want to build up a race HT in the future, steel is okay but I really lust for Ti. If I wanted steel I might go Niner instead. But this all just dreaming until next summer, this winter I will be racing my Epic in marathons.

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Maybe by then they will offer an XS in Ti. For all I know maybe this will be possible this new model year, too!

That Warbird makes me all tingly. I wonder if it will have rack and fender mounts?

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Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama

My real dream HT is a Lynskey but my sponsor doesn't sell them I was looking at Salsa. It is bummer they haven't embraced the smaller 29ers. I really want to build up a race HT in the future, steel is okay but I really lust for Ti. If I wanted steel I might go Niner instead. But this all just dreaming until next summer, this winter I will be racing my Epic in marathons.

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Amanda,

Lynsky makes the Ti frames for Salsa. You're welcome!

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Originally Posted by Loraura

Amanda,

Lynsky makes the Ti frames for Salsa. You're welcome!

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Since Lynskey's small is small enough for me Salsa needs to get with it. It is all about me ya know! :p

Oh this is apparently the El Mariachi 3 for 2013...I think I need this bike. We're thinking the 20% Cdale discount that we get as JDRF riders only applies towards road bikes (which makes sense, really), so that evens out the playing field between the 29er bikes I am considering (Salsa El Mar and Cdale Tango SL).
http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/s...red-el-mar.jpg

I do like that the El Mariachi has a proven record and is such a popular model. And I've never had a steel bike, before, so I'd be interested to try that vs. the alum. Cdale. With the El Mariachi I'd have a steel mtn. bike, alum CX bike, and carbon road bike--all I'd need is a titanium Mukluk, heh! ;)

I hope I'll be able to test both the Cannondale and the El Mariachi. I will have to drop some not-so-subtle hints to our LBS buddy to get 1 of each for me to try. :D

I would have to name the Salsa "Gossamer," right...? :p
http://www.macrodons.com/dailysketch...ModelSheet.jpg

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Oh this is apparently the El Mariachi 3 for 2013...I think I need this bike. We're thinking the 20% Cdale discount that we get as JDRF riders only applies towards road bikes (which makes sense, really), so that evens out the playing field between the 29er bikes I am considering (Salsa El Mar and Cdale Tango SL).
http://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/s...red-el-mar.jpg

I do like that the El Mariachi has a proven record and is such a popular model. And I've never had a steel bike, before, so I'd be interested to try that vs. the alum. Cdale. With the El Mariachi I'd have a steel mtn. bike, alum CX bike, and carbon road bike--all I'd need is a titanium Mukluk, heh! ;)

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DH had a steel mountain bike and loved it. I think if I were to ever get a SS, it would be a steel frame.

Oh, this is the best photo I've seen of the 2013 El Mariachi 3, yet:
http://www.northcentralcyclery.com/w...8-768x1024.jpg

The more I look at it, the more I love it...and the less enamored I am with the Cannondale Tango SL 29er. It really looks too much like a cheap Y-framed Wal-Mart kids' bike, unfortunately. Even my DH seems to be encouraging the Salsa over the Cdale, even though it would likely cost us a couple hundred more. And I've been riding a friend's too-small-for-me Salsa Ala Carte and can't get over how smooth the steel feels, even riding on the paved rail trail to get to some singletrack 4ish miles from our house. I always assumed that riding knobby tires on asphalt was buzzy regardless of the bike. Now I feel that the buzzy has a lot to do with the aluminum frames I've ridden.

I've been too lazy to take the knobbies off my Fargo, which is my commuter bike...and they don't bother me a bit. Love love love that bike - it's like the bike equivalent of an Escalade for a commute, but so comfy.