N+1 is burning a hole in my pocket!

So here's my family's situation. I have a nice sort of entry-level Cannondale F5 26in. mountain bike that we purchased early last Fall. Cannondale had a bunch of petite/XS size from '09 just languishing in a warehouse, so they sold them off cheap and we got it for half of retail ($350, instead of $700).

The bike is really a size too small for me, but fits my 11 year old DS pretty well...by next Summer it should be a perfect fit. Last night we went riding on some easy single-track with me on the mountain bike and him on his CX bike. He was bombing around like it was nothing. There were a few spots where his CX bike was not well-suited, though, like sand and some roots. He and I would both like to be able to ride together more, even hitting some more challenging trails an hour-ish away.

So the logical next step would be to get me a larger, better bike that I can ride more indefinitely--or until he grows into it, then I would upgrade again to a 29er (because I ride for JDRF I am eligible for 20% off Cannondale bikes, plus that is our LBS's primary brand...but thus far Cdale does not have 29ers smaller than size M--we expect that to change in the next year or so if they want to remain competitive with every other major mfgr.).

Perfect plan, right? OK, here's where the wrench gets thrown into the works, thus messing everything up.

My baby (and I mean BABY...31 going on 13 :rolleyes: ) sister has plans to get married in Vegas in Dec. as a sort of Mayan Calendar joke. So the money that COULD go towards another bike is instead being diverted to airfare. My folks can't even afford to see their DD get married, but my sister doesn't seem to give 2 hoots about that. Even her 2 young sons will not be at the wedding (at first she wanted them to be, but everyone talked her out of bringing 2 small boys--one of whom is quite autistic and easily overstimulated. Plus they'd have to pay for airfare for 4, instead of 2), nor her BFF.

I don't even want to go to Vegas...BTDT. We can't afford for my DH to join me, either. I'd SO much rather have a new bike and get to see my sister get married within driving distance (we live in MI, they live in WI)...see my folks, see my nephews, etc. She doesn't realize that by getting married in Vegas and having only a handful of guests that she will be missing out on a lot of fun (and gifts from a much broader group of friends. As it is we will be putting so much money into my participation for her wedding that THAT will be their gift from us. Christmas will be slim, too). Weddings are dumb.

I vote for new bicycle and hope little sister comes to her senses, or someone knocks some good sense into her head.

If little sister wants to have a destination wedding where no one can afford to go, and she isn't springing for the tickets and hotels - then let her have her nice wedding with the staff there as witnesses. Who was she planning on getting to take care of her kids while she pulls this stunt?

If the sister wants to do the Vegas wedding to the hilt, she should do the Elvis at the drive through wedding. That'll be cheaper without getting all the family involved.

Maybe, you can talk her into the drive through if only few can make it. And have a reception back home where everyone can get together.

And hope that she comes to her senses. Idea of Elvis and drive through may be enough to convince her that Vegas wedding isn't a great idea. I just don't see any appeal of Vegas.

Yup you can't choose your familia!

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Originally Posted by bmccasland

Who was she planning on getting to take care of her kids while she pulls this stunt?

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My folks. Ridiculous, isn't it? This is pretty much the story of her life. She and her DH-to-be barely keep their heads above water, as is. She works part time as a waitress at a Perkins and I don't think he makes more than maybe $25k/year.

I truly cannot imagine going off and getting married somewhere where most of my friends and family could not afford to take part in the day. I can't figure out why she and her fiance don't simply honeymoon in Vegas--that would make the most sense. Originally she wanted to be married by Elvis, until she started pricing that.

The friend who is standing as her MOH will have turned 21 just days before the wedding, so I know this trip will be very much about them all seeing how drunk they can remain for several days. Totally not my thing (I mean, hey...I like being a silly drunk as much as anyone, but in the safety of my own home and not for days on end). I think the wedding will be on a Weds., so I am planning to fly on Tues. and leave on Thurs. or Fri. I really hope our brother can go, since I adore him and his GF. Vegas with them would actually be fun. He just started a new job, though, so I'm not sure he'll be able to take off for several days in the middle of the week, like that.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

I just don't see any appeal of Vegas.

Yup you can't choose your familia!

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Ain't that the truth! :p

I liked my first trip to Vegas with DH for our anniversary a few years back--it's fun to see any new place for the first time. It was fun the next time I went, a year later, with a group of runner friends to run the marathon. Last Fall we were there for a couple of nights after our JDRF ride in Death Valley and we stayed in "old" downtown Vegas and I really preferred that. Less crowded, less smoke, cheaper costs for everything. We ventured onto the strip one night and it just annoyed me, by that point.

Really, after a few trips to Vegas it no longer holds any real appeal. Too many people, WAY too much smoke (my asthma really kicks into high gear in that place), too much hassle getting around.

Get the bike and don't go. Maybe your folks can offer to throw a "welcome home" party for them (nothing fancy - just a chance to get together and share some snacks). That way you're still supporting her and the marriage, without spending a boat load of money.

I don't see why you should sacrifice to enable what appears to be a fiasco in the making. (Of course, I've been called grumpy in these situations. We went to the last one with the BIL at DH's insistence. It was as bad as I feared. I hope the lesson has been learned - but I doubt it.)

ETA: On further reflection, maybe separate the bike from the decision to go. Would you not want to go anyway? Then don't go. What you do with the extra money is up to you. I wouldn't look at it as an if, then proposition (nor would I share that with your family).

If my sister weren't a raving lunatic I would simply opt not to go...but here's the thing: if I don't go she will become VERY belligerent and vengeful. She has been like this since she was a teenager. She's been known to tell lies about people when it suits her. Years ago she was caught sneaking out of the house. She threw me under the bus, then; telling our folks that I did the same thing as a teen (I didn't, not even once. She, on the other hand, hung out with huffers and got nailed for underage drinking at least twice, then flunked out of community college...got knocked-up when she was 20, then again <2 years later). I shudder to think what she would do if I decided not to attend her wedding. The sad thing is that of everyone in her immediate family and friends, I am the one most financially able to attend and stand up. She thrives on drama and would make a ton of it if I bailed, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

It would be easier if I didn't 100% support the marriage, but I do. Her fiance is a great guy. Not perfect, but perfect for her and the only real father her boys have ever known.

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Originally Posted by Blueberry

ETA: On further reflection, maybe separate the bike from the decision to go. Would you not want to go anyway? Then don't go. What you do with the extra money is up to you. I wouldn't look at it as an if, then proposition (nor would I share that with your family).

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Yeah, there are two issues here. The bigger one is that your sister is not a raving lunatic, she's a manipulator. If she didn't have kids I'd say you'd probably be better off keeping your distance from her.

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Originally Posted by Blueberry

ETA: On further reflection, maybe separate the bike from the decision to go. Would you not want to go anyway? Then don't go. What you do with the extra money is up to you. I wouldn't look at it as an if, then proposition (nor would I share that with your family).

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This^^^^.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

Yeah, there are two issues here. The bigger one is that your sister is not a raving lunatic, she's a manipulator. If she didn't have kids I'd say you'd probably be better off keeping your distance from her.

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Yeah, that's pretty much spot-on. The only thing we really have in common is having boys of about the same age. We live about 8 hours apart. Even if we lived closer we'd likely not socialize much.

It's only in the last couple of years that my folks have admitted that they enabled her behavior for many years. There was a period of at least a year when I didn't talk to anyone in my family, aside from my brother. I went to visit my mom and sister for my sister's first Mother's day. It was a nightmare and I ended up driving home on Mother's Day, after spending a night in a hotel with my toddler son. When I arrived at my sister's home it was in shambles (beds totally unmade, stuff all over the floor, no childproofing done, no food in the house after I drove all that way with little kid who needed to eat). My sister was completely obnoxious when we were out with our boys...saying to people "my baby's cuter, isn't he?" Totally awkward. Her little guy was crying several times in the night and I was the one who got up to care for him the first night. Her excuse was that she thought it was my son crying (seriously, my son was 14 months and hers was 7 months--their cries sounded NOTHING alike).

After all of that my mom blamed me...saying that I was too inflexible. Hence the not talking to my 'rents or sister for so long. My sister got knocked-up with baby #2 while living under my parents' roof. They financially supported her and the boys for a couple of years and blew a lot of what little retirement savings they had. And then my mom lost her job a year ago.

She's matured a LOT since then, but compared to most women in their early 30s she still behaves like a petulant child. I'm really thankful that a Great Lake separates us. I'm still hoping that she will change her wedding plans between now and Dec.

Your sister needs to see a mental health professional.
Seriously, this is a pattern, diagnosable.
I would be very worried about her kids.

I think you should get the bike - not for your sake, but for your son's. The two of you could create so many great memories. I think that's more important than making your idiot sister happy. She just sounds so incredibly selfish - a destination wedding that no one in the family can comfortably afford, just so she can stay drunk for days on end... words fail me. :rolleyes:

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Crankin

Your sister needs to see a mental health professional.
Seriously, this is a pattern, diagnosable.
I would be very worried about her kids.

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She's a surprisingly good mom, all things considered. Her youngest's autism diagnosis was a blessing in disguise--she had to suddenly start behaving herself when it became clear that he was struggling. She met her fiance around the same time and he's a very good guy (we joke that he's a "lite" version of my DH). It's the rest of her family who ends up receiving the brunt of her bad behavior.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I think you should get the bike - not for your sake, but for your son's. The two of you could create so many great memories. I think that's more important than making your idiot sister happy. She just sounds so incredibly selfish - a destination wedding that no one in the family can comfortably afford, just so she can stay drunk for days on end... words fail me. :rolleyes:

Veronica

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Yeah, that's pretty much my thinking, too.

I think I need to talk this over with my mom. Even if money were no object for her or for us the whole thing makes me really uncomfortable. It's rather bridezilla-ish to plan a wedding that is a major inconvenience for everyone, but the couple. Especially when her sons will be 10 and 11.5 and won't get to see their mom and "dad" marry. At best it's weird.

How did your parents manage to get out of going, and can't you do that, too? What are you afraid she will do if you don't go? Are those fears rational? She sounds like a selfish bully.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

How did your parents manage to get out of going, and can't you do that, too? What are you afraid she will do if you don't go? Are those fears rational? She sounds like a selfish bully.

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Because my folks are really broke-down poor (as is my sister's BFF, who is also not going to be in the wedding due to finances and having an infant at home). They have 1 ancient, falling apart Dodge Neon, don't own a home, barely have a pot to pee in, next-to-no retirement savings. Relative to most of my family (except my brother) we're very comfortable. But money for us is still semi-tight. We spend any "extra" cash on nice bikes, rather than taking family vacations. I'm sure my sister views us as well-off, but we just spend our money differently. Our mortgage is dirt-cheap ('cause we live in a dumb old house, rather than having gotten sucked into more house than we could afford when that was a popular thing to do), but we still live on one income, thanks to MI's especially crummy economy and my unwillingness to spend 2+ hours in my car commuting to make peanuts. We make ends meet and have a little leftover for fun, but that's it.

As far as what I fear she will do...I don't know. She has proven in the past that she will lie to paint people in a bad light. She's on FB...lord only knows what she would do with that medium. I don't think people would believe anything she could come up with, nowadays, but who knows the lengths she would go to.

Mostly I fear that she'll make things ugly within our family and will keep me from seeing my nephews, which would break my heart. I don't get to see them nearly enough because of distance, as is. Her eldest son and my son are very close and her boys are the only cousins my son has.

Why talk to your mom? Talk to your sister. You'r both adults--even if you think she doesn't necessarily behave like one. If you have an issue with her decision to hold a destination wedding, she's the person to talk to, and the only person to talk to. It's not your job to convince your parents that your sister's decision is a poor one. They're adults, too, and they can come to that conclusion on their own. If you decide not to go the wedding, obviously you'll have to tell your parents why, but don't use that as an opportunity to bash your sister's decision. I just get the sense that there's some triangulation in your family dynamic based on what you've shared, and it's arguably not particularly healthy.

I understand why you feel you need to go. You can look at this as a good thing, that you're supporting her, even though it's a sacrifice for you. Maybe it will even help your relationship. But, if you don't have a positive result in the end, that may make you even more resentful, and make things worse. If only you had hindsight, because this could go either way.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

If only you had hindsight, because this could go either way.

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Exactly. And Indy's right, I need to talk to her. I have a feeling that if my brother doesn't go and I do that it will not be fun. If my brother and his GF go, then it's foreseeable that the 3 of us would find things to do that don't involve spending a ton of money on booze. If they don't go, then it's me hanging with my sister, her husband, and her other drunken friends. My idea of a good time is not babysitting a bunch of drunks on the Vegas Strip. :rolleyes:

Have you considered the possiblity that she really doesn't want her family there? For all your angst, maybe this was a calculated move on her part. It doesn't sound like you have the happiest of clans. If she does want you there, then I would really give some careful thought to what it will say and mean to her if you don't go. If you truly can't afford it, that's one thing and it's a perfectly valid reason to skip it. But I'd try to look past your other reasons for not wanting to go to see what you might preserve and/or gain by going and what you might lose if you don't.

I am generally an anti-wedding person (I eloped) and I'm estranged from my own dysfunctional siblings, but even I can admit that sometimes you suck it up for the greater good when it comes to weddings and that they are legitimately something we should ideally celebrate with friends and family. It sounds like you do love your sister and her children and genuinely like her fiancee. I have to wonder whether you'll end up regretting it if you don't go (again, assuming you can afford it).

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Have you considered the possiblity that she really doesn't want her family there? For all your angst, maybe this was a calculated move on her part. It doesn't sound like you have the happiest of clans. If she does want you there, then I would really give some careful thought to what it will say and mean to her if you don't go. If you truly can't afford it, that's one thing and it's a perfectly valid reason to skip it. But I'd try to look past your other reasons for not wanting to go to see what you might preserve and/or gain by going and what you might lose if you don't.

I am generally an anti-wedding person (I eloped) and I'm estranged from my own dysfunctional siblings, but even I can admit that sometimes you suck it up for the greater good when it comes to weddings and that they are legitimately something we should ideally celebrate with friends and family. It sounds like you do love your sister and her children and genuinely like her fiancee. I have to wonder whether you'll end up regretting it if you don't go (again, assuming you can afford it).

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This is where it becomes tricky. While we do not have a "bad" relationship, per se, we're not really close. My brother and I are definitely MUCH closer. My sister is not really fond of our mom, even after the sacrifices my parents have made and continue to make for her, so I don't think it really even upsets her that our parents are unable to go. The thing that is weird is that her best friend cannot go and that wasn't enough to give her pause. My sister has it in her head that she wants a tacky Vegas wedding, even if it means that very few of her friends and family can go. Her vision of her "perfect" wedding has overridden practicality.

I think I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I go I will be irritated by her likely behavior and the amount of money being spent that could be better spent on a family trip for my DH, DS and I. If I don't go I will feel like a heel, especially in light of the fact that it's possible that I am the only family member who can attend.

I don't envy you this situation at all, but the more you share, the more I've of the mind that your sister may not care one way or another if you attend. And if that's the case, then don't go. And don't feel bad about it.

But, yes, do talk to her. And maybe come right out and ask whether she really wants you (or anyone else) there. You may not get a straight answer, but you might be able to read enough between the lines to figure it out.

When people have destination weddings, they understand there is a good chance of not having someone important to them there at the wedding. And when someone cannot go, they are usually disappointed but do not dwell on it. Afterall, the bride and groom chose where to go, not everyone else.

For the bride and groom who feel it is really important to have certain friends and family there, they will do what they can to have it as close or centrally located as possible. It is about the union and celebrating with those they love.

Don't own your sister's problems. She is a big time USER. Let me guess, only calls family when she needs something?

Take care of your own immediate family.

What would she do if the situation was reversed? Probably wouldn't be there to support her.

Oh, and when you can't afford to take care of your own family's needs (yes, vacations and of course, bikes, are needs), then you can't afford to go either. It's ok for everyone else to decline. It's ok for you to decline.

Oh, and 8 hours away, count your blessing.

Signed,

Totally Estranged from Siblings (had to to get away from unhealthy relationships)

I might try talking to her, but really, do what's best for your own mental health and family. I would get the bike and send a small gift... and perhaps suggest a casual family celebration when she gets back. I am betting she doesn't want anyone, except the people who will drink with her, to celebrate. I am another person who thinks weddings are kind of dumb to begin with, so probably not the best person to give advice here.
Of course, I have cut ties with all of my dysfunctional relatives, which includes everyone except my dad and brother.

I have a sister similar to yours, except she's so sweet she uses it to manipulate everyone around her to get them to do what she doesn't. Watch her kids, give her money, a place to live, food, rent, etc. She has 4 kids and while I know not everything that has happened to her is her fault, she refuses to take responsibility and takes advantage of those who fall into her trap. I wish we were closer, but we have such different personality and interests, it's hard to find things to talk about.

It's your sister's wedding. She chose Las Vegas, even if it's for a drunkfest. Respect that. The fact that no one can really go is her fault and no one else's. If she plays the martyr and makes everyone think you and your family are evil via social media, so be it. You can't win with those that play the martyr. Everything you say will be twisted to make you look worse. Trust me, I know first hand. Remember, it's FB..everything is drama.

Talk to her and see how she feels. Bring up the idea of having a small party when she gets home with family. Talk with your brother and see how he feels about going as well. If it ends up leaving your sister at a hotel drunk, and you two are happy to explore and have a great time, it might be worth the trip and get a bike at a later date.

If you really know this is going to be a disaster trip, give her your best wishes, a nice wedding gift and leave it with that.

We had a destination wedding, but invited our close family members (and paid for their trip/lodging), with a big backyard BBQ reception about a month later at home. TBH, this was partly because my brother and his wife were getting married a month after than us, and we knew that all of the out of town relatives wouldn't want to travel more than once. So we planned our backyard BBQ for the day after my brother's wedding, and all of the relatives basically got a 2-for-1 deal that year.

Anyway, point being, when you're planning a destination wedding, you know that most people won't come. We planned it that way. It sounds to me like your sister, perhaps even subconsciously, doesn't intend for any of you to be part of her wedding. Perhaps your brother and other family members will join in for some kind of "welcome home" thing where your sister can show off the Vegas pics and you can all hang out.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I am another person who thinks weddings are kind of dumb to begin with, so probably not the best person to give advice here.

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My DH and I totally agree. We spent about $8k almost 16 years ago, which was way cheap by mid-90s standards. Half of that was on photographer and honeymoon, which is where our priorities were, but in hindsight we wish we'd taken that same money and been married by a friend outdoors, then had a BBQ reception and a really amazing, long, foreign honeymoon (I mean, aside from Canada, which never feels very foreign from MI) or put a bigger downpayment on a house. The whole dress/church thing was more for our grandparents and family than for us. But they all could have been happy with a casual wedding/reception, too.

Thanks for all the great advice, ladies. You've really given me a lot of food for thought. I need to discuss this more with my DH, since he has known my sister since she was 9 and has a very good handle on the family dynamics, but can still be reasonably objective.

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Originally Posted by breeze

Perhaps your brother and other family members will join in for some kind of "welcome home" thing where your sister can show off the Vegas pics and you can all hang out.

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And, really, that would be ideal, since she's getting married <2 weeks before Christmas. We could always plan to combine something like that with a family Christmas get-together weekend, or something to that effect.

If you go to the wedding, how long would it take you to save up for the bike?

When were you planning to buy the bike (assuming no wedding to go to)?

Just wondering if there is a way to accommodate both, even if you have to delay the bike a bit. Is it possible to shave any time off the trip (i know, this is hard b/c you prob have to travel day before, day after, etc). Can you share a room with someone?

Do you think your sister really wants you there? Forget about the backlash she might give you for not going, but do you think deep down in her heart, she wants you there?

It's a hard decision...families are tricky business, for sure....

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Originally Posted by Penny4

If you go to the wedding, how long would it take you to save up for the bike?

When were you planning to buy the bike (assuming no wedding to go to)?

Just wondering if there is a way to accommodate both, even if you have to delay the bike a bit. Is it possible to shave any time off the trip (i know, this is hard b/c you prob have to travel day before, day after, etc). Can you share a room with someone?

Do you think your sister really wants you there? Forget about the backlash she might give you for not going, but do you think deep down in her heart, she wants you there?

It's a hard decision...families are tricky business, for sure....

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It's really hard to say if she wants me there, or not. She's long been all about what can she get for free from family...lodging, childcare, birthday/Christmas/Mother's Day presents--all without ever reciprocating (in the case of holiday gifts she frequently buys stuff the day of the holiday and doesn't even bother wrapping...little-to-no thought/effort goes into gifts from my sister. She thinks it's down-right hilarious, of course). I'm sure there's part of her that does want me there, but there's a part of me that wonders what strings are attached. She is also the one who ALWAYS starts family drama. There was one occasion when we were all together--except for her--and we all independently came to the realization that it was the first time that everyone got along perfectly well and had a fabulous time--because she wasn't pitting anyone against anyone else. Ever since then we've all been sort of on-guard to her shenanigans.

Rooming with someone else isn't the big expense. I can get a nice room on the strip for $40/night. The flight, food, and other transportation around Vegas are what get a person. Vegas is ridiculous--they don't even have coffee makers or mini-fridges in the rooms, so there is no way to cut costs by eating leftovers or brewing coffee in-room. It's all Starbucks, all the time. A single person could easily expect to pay $40-50/day in food costs. Insane.

We'd been talking bike this Summer...maybe waiting to see what the 2013 models look like, if our LBS buddy can direct us on whether or not to pull the trigger in the next month or so or wait for late Summer/early Fall. With the wedding related expenses we'd probably have to wait until next year, which means no good way to go mountain biking with the rugrat for another year, even though he's ready now and he and I are probably not all that different in terms of ability (in large part because he's sorta fearless and surprisingly agile on the bike).

Well, this gets interesting. I just talked to my mom, mostly to find out what my brother's plans are, since I've messaged him a few times on FB about the possibility of planning flights so that I could be on the plane with him and his GF from Chicago to LV, and then back (a lot of flights out of Grand Rapids do their stop at O'Hare). He never replied, so I thought maybe he was just not seeing my messages.

Apparently he and his GF are not planning to go. The wedding is on a Weds. and he has a new job, so there is really no way that he can get away, per my mom.

So...now my only real incentive to go (hanging out with them, instead of the drunken miscreants) is gone. At this point my only incentive to go would be out of guilt/obligation, since there is now no one but me from our family able to go. To spend $1000+ for 3-4 days traveling alone and hanging out with my sister and her annoying friends...nuh, don't want to go there. And the Vegas Strip as a lone female just sounds really unwise, to begin with.

New Bike! No Guilt!!!!!! Move on. Problem Solved.


(Wish is was that easy)

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Originally Posted by smittykitty

New Bike! No Guilt!!!!!! Move on. Problem Solved.


(Wish is was that easy)

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Ha, it may be that easy. She, of all people, should understand that $1000 to simply be in a wedding is a lot of dough for most of us. If she doesn't...well, it says more about her than about me.

I'm with Smitty Kitty on this one. Whether you get the bike or not.

To review: you're talking about spending lots of cash and having a miserable time in order to keep a self-centered manipulative person from having a hissy fit.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

To review: you're talking about spending lots of cash and having a miserable time in order to keep a self-centered manipulative person from having a hissy fit.

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Pretty much. At almost 40 I really don't feel much like doing that. :p

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Ha, it may be that easy. She, of all people, should understand that $1000 to simply be in a wedding is a lot of dough for most of us. If she doesn't...well, it says more about her than about me.

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I thought about this all "day":

I suspect your sister believes her own "lies" about you. Perhaps in her mind you are a party animal just like her. Being 8 (?) hours away could mean that she isn't aware of how you live your life. This could be why you've been invited to LV.

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

So, what bike are you getting? :D

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Most likely this one (or maybe 1 level down. Would I notice the difference between 9 speeds and 10?):
Cannondale Trail SL 2
http://cdn.cannondale.com/catalog/pr...1fs2_blk_6.png

The plan would be for me to ride it for a couple of years, then my DS would take over and I'd likely look at a 29er, assuming Cdale will offer them in smaller sizes in a couple of years.

You could now say that because the family can't go we will have a party/family gathering for you when you return. If you want to have a party.

I just test rode a Specialized Myka and a Jett. Jett was pricier but lighter. Nice bikes. It was fun trying them out by going up and over curbs, finding potholes, and parking barriers to cross. The smallest Cannondale was too big. (The bike shop where I tried the Cannondale said that it was the smallest mountain bike out there. I said no it wasn't, the Specialized ones were smaller and I couldn't even clear the top tube on the Cannondale. They didn't want to believe me. Pooh on salesman.)