Surly Pacer vs. Cross-Check

I'm sure some of you ladies have/have had a Surly Pacer or Cross-Check in your stable(?). My 2009 Dolce Elite is the designated "road bike" in mine, but I'm finding that I tend to prefer the ride steel provides.

I also have a Jamis Coda Sport (hybrid) and a Jamis Aurora (touring)-both steel. The lovely Dolce seems to be left behind often-partly due to the craggy roads where I live. She seems delicate by comparison, so I take pains to navigate around broken pavement. This is the same reasoning I use for avoiding bone china and choosing a hefty coffee mug. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, I enjoy the Dolce on paved bike paths and roads that haven't been ravaged by season changes and heavy vehicle traffic. It's a sweet bike under good conditions, but tends to be squirrelly over cracks and bumps. (My other bikes-aside from being steel-have wider tires, too. Would switching from 23cm to 25 cm tires on the Dolce offer much improvement?)

I'm a recreational cyclist and ride alone most of the time; I don't compete or do group rides and am not concerned what each component weighs, so the steel frame weight is not a significant issue. I've ridden a Cross-Check and came *this* close to buying one-but ultimately chose the Jamis Aurora because of my good experience with the Coda Sport-and also couldn't wrap my head around the "beef gravy brown" color of the '10 Surly CC.

I think the CC may be a better all-'rounder for me-but maybe is not that much different than the Aurora (?)-which I definitely plan to keep. (If another bike does follow me home, I'll have to sell the Coda or the Dolce due to space constraints.)

Would you share your experiences with the Pacer as a road bike? Regarding customizing: I know it can accommodate fenders-but what about a rear rack? I did look at the frame specs but am not familiar enough with the terminology to figure that out.

I'd appreciate any feedback on either the Pacer or the Cross-Check that might help bring me closer to a focus point.

I can't speak to either of those bikes, but I have 25s on both of my road bikes. IMO, there's no decrease in speed, but a noticable increase in comfort. The extra volume really takes the edge off and I can run a lower pressure without the risk of pinch flats.

If they'll fit in your frame, slightly bigger tires are worth considering.

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Originally Posted by Becky

I can't speak to either of those bikes, but I have 25s on both of my road bikes. IMO, there's no decrease in speed, but a noticable increase in comfort. The extra volume really takes the edge off and I can run a lower pressure without the risk of pinch flats.

If they'll fit in your frame, slightly bigger tires are worth considering.

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I second the above observation and suggestion. I once put 25s on my steel bike and found that it rode like a cadillac compared to the ride with 23s.

tough choices, I assume you have been on surlybikes.com? Read the information hole.
I only own 1 bike and she does everything except rider rough trails but I don't enjoy rough trails so that is okay. With that said I have contemplated a 26"wheel LHT with some big apple tires for riding rougher dirt roads as my 650b are to narrow (some will crack up at that as they are 32.8) If you want to be able to put racks on consider the Cross Check over the Pacer

It's likely I'll get one or the other Surly eventually. That decision will then determine which of my current bikes I sell. Right now I'm leaning toward the CC for its versatility-which will likely edge out the Coda Sport.

If putting 25 cm tires on the Dolce will make a noticeable difference in the handling I'll certainly consider it, as the bike is a joy to ride-on decent roads. (Thank you to those who shared their personal experience of a relatively minor tire width change. It helps to know this could be an improvement in that area.)

I'm in my late 50s; breakneck speeds are not something I'm striving for at this stage of life...mainly looking for overall comfort for the occasional long ride. I do want to have more than one bike for different situations, and 30-50 miles will be a goal as my fitness improves. I'm overweight-but in good health. Bicycling has proven to be a great exercise choice for me.

A rear rack is somewhat important when considering the new bike; I often like to carry a few extra things. I know the CC is up for that task (and more!), but it does help to hear what others have done with these two models.

The cheapest thing to do is buy wider tires and see how it goes from there as it does add stability.

The CC is a great bike from the test ride I had in the parking lot. I enjoyed the Long Haul Trucker as well. Only reason I didn't buy the CC was I had purchased the Salsa Fargo as it had disc brakes and was more of an off road bike.

I think the CC is in blue right now....

I'm thinking that the Pacer isn't drilled to accept a rack, though there are probably workarounds. That said, what about a larger seat bag, something like a Carradice bag or a Detours D2R rear bag? My Bianchi won't take a rack, so I've been looking at these types of bags instead.

I have a Dolce, and have put a rack on it successfully. Well, my bike shop did anyway. Changing the tires to 25s sounds like a wonderful idea, and I think I will attempt this if there is brake clearance for them.


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_2350.jpg

I have a CC--in the lovely beef gravy brown....it has grown on me, and it hides dirt/grime well, but I saw the current blue color and kind of wished I'd waited a few months...

On to the important bits... I bought it as my primary commuter when I moved and the commute went from 4 mi to 22 mi round trip. It's been my do everything bike for the past 18 months and both my single speed and road bike have seen a lot fewer miles just because the CC is so versatile-- commute with lunch/change of clothes, ride with friends and take snacks for everybody, stop at the grocery store (or haul a case of beer :)), etc.

It's plenty fast enough, and really comfortable for long rides. I also found it much more responsive/fun to ride than the LHT (not on your list, but I didn't test-ride the Pacer so that's the only Surly comparison I've got). It's not as twitchy as my road bike (old steel), but it's not a boring, heavy, plodder.

A couple comments (not negatives, but observations):
-It doesn't handle super well with a big load (a full trip to Trader Joe's makes for an interesting trip with two loaded panniers on the trip home). I've heard that it is better with a little weight on the front, but I don't have a front rack. Since you have a true tourer, I doubt this will be an issue. With ~20lbs of groceries, it's fine.

-I wish it came with a disk option, the stock brakes are a little anemic. I changed out the front one which helped, along with better brake pads. I also swapped out the stock brake levers for an old set that I had-- the stock ones have a big knob on the top of the hood (maybe the norm for newer bikes-- I've never ridden brifters, but it felt strange to me). The levers also had a higher pivot point so you needed longer fingers/bigger hands to apply the same force vs. the old ones that I have now. Anyway, not optimal, especially when I'm hauling groceries.

I have a lot of experience with the 42cm sizes of the Pacer, LHT and "Cross Check."

The "Cross Check" bike I have is a Motobecane Fantom CXX which is basically the same frame as the Cross Check. I recently got this bike in 42cm white and have it built as a commuter and around town adventure ride. With the SRAM Apex it's a good buy, with better gearing, compared to the stock CC. You can ride it just about anywhere in an urban environment. I don't know what size you ride but the 42cm size has some pretty significant toe overlap. Some of my other bikes have toe overlap and I don't do track stands so I don't worry about it much.

I had a Pacer as my first real road bike. I think it's a really nice road bike frame for the price. It's not as light and fast as most road bikes, but it's very comfortable and stable. A bombproof road bike for varying road conditions. Mine had an all-day ride quality. I liked the steel fork. I always thought that it would be a great ride for multiday supported tours, and for lightweight loaded touring. Mine had a little lightweight pannier rack on it. The frame does not have braze-ons on the seat stays for a rack, but one strut attached to the brake bolt worked fine. I carried up to 20 lbs on that bike. The Pacer does have *much* less tire clearance than the CC, it only takes up to 32mm tires without fenders. I moved on from the Pacer only because I found a Gunnar Sport in my size and moved all the Pacer parts onto it.

The ride of the "Cross Check" and the Pacer is pretty similar. I haven't ridden an Aurora to compare. I assume it would ride pretty nice too.

I agree with those who said that the 25c tires will make a difference. I just put 25c Continental 4000s on my Ruby and it makes a BIG difference. That Continental is a wide for it's size tire, and in 25c it is noticeably bigger than the Vittoria Open Corsa or Hutchinson Fusions I had been using in 23c. No loss of speed, I think I am faster actually. The Black Chilli compound is not a marketing 'bla-bla'; that stuff rolls great and has good compliance and grip and I feel more confident on them. I'm really liking these tires on my Ruby. The Hutchinsons were so thin by comparison and did not roll any better and transmitted much more of the road surface to my hands and bottom.

So I would say to try a nice quality 25c tire in the Dolce; you might be surprised.

Eofelis... can you compare the gunnar to the pacer? Thanks

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Originally Posted by roguedog

Eofelis... can you compare the gunnar to the pacer? Thanks

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All the parts on the Pacer, including the fork, were moved onto the Gunnar Sport frame. But the Gunnar Sport was not a stock size frame. It was a custom done for someone else that I got on ebay. It's about 41cm c-t, about 51cm effective top tube. It has 700c wheels. The stock size Gunnar Sports in xs size have 650c wheels.

My parts are 9 speed Ultegra triple cranks (165mm crank arms), Shimano R600 (Ultegra quality) triple STIs, Salsa Poco handlebars (40cm), 'cross brake levers, XT 12-34 cassette and XT rear der., Mavic Open Pro wheels, 32 spokes. Tires, 25mm, vary depending on what I find on sale or in the bike room.

My Sport has a probably has a bit different geometry than the Pacer, maybe slacker headtube and seat tube angles (but I haven't checked exactly). My Gunnar has longer chainstays than the Pacer, at least 1cm longer. The Gunnar is thinner walled higher quality steel tubing, OX Platinum and 853, compared to the 4130 steel of the Pacer. The Surly tubing is pretty hard to dent, the Gunnar tubing dents more easily. So the Gunnar is probably a bit lighter in weight than the Pacer.

The Pacer is a pretty comfortable ride. The Gunnar is an absolute couch. I've done big long mountain climbs and descents, and century rides on rough and chip sealed roads, on both and neither one is the least bit buzzy and I never felt beat up at the end of the day.

Thanks for the info!

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Originally Posted by eofelis

I have a lot of experience with the 42cm sizes of the Pacer, LHT and "Cross Check."

The "Cross Check" bike I have is a Motobecane Fantom CXX which is basically the same frame as the Cross Check. I recently got this bike in 42cm white and have it built as a commuter and around town adventure ride. With the SRAM Apex it's a good buy, with better gearing, compared to the stock CC. You can ride it just about anywhere in an urban environment. I don't know what size you ride but the 42cm size has some pretty significant toe overlap. Some of my other bikes have toe overlap and I don't do track stands so I don't worry about it much.

I had a Pacer as my first real road bike. I think it's a really nice road bike frame for the price. It's not as light and fast as most road bikes, but it's very comfortable and stable. A bombproof road bike for varying road conditions. Mine had an all-day ride quality. I liked the steel fork. I always thought that it would be a great ride for multiday supported tours, and for lightweight loaded touring. Mine had a little lightweight pannier rack on it. The frame does not have braze-ons on the seat stays for a rack, but one strut attached to the brake bolt worked fine. I carried up to 20 lbs on that bike. The Pacer does have *much* less tire clearance than the CC, it only takes up to 32mm tires without fenders. I moved on from the Pacer only because I found a Gunnar Sport in my size and moved all the Pacer parts onto it.

The ride of the "Cross Check" and the Pacer is pretty similar. I haven't ridden an Aurora to compare. I assume it would ride pretty nice too.

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Eeofolis,

I took a look at the Motobecane-not a bad choice for the money. Coincidentally, I found one on my local CraigsList after you mentioned it, but it's a 54 and would be too large for me. (I rode a 50 cm in the Cross-Check; I think that is a good size for me.) What I'll probably do is research tires for the Dolce and go to 25's instead of leaning toward the Pacer.

I compared the 2012 CC specs with the 2011; the 2011 seems to be a little better for the money. We don't have a lot of dealers that carry Surly, but the shop where I bought the two Jamis bikes (Harris Cyclery) seems to have leftover '11s as well as 12s. I may call them this weekend if I'm not successful in talking myself out of this...

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Originally Posted by eofelis

So the Gunnar is probably a bit lighter in weight than the Pacer...

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It is probably quite a bit lighter. I don't know if a Pacer is significantly lighter than a Long Haul Trucker in a similar size, but my full custom Gunnar (~48cm) is a good 12 pounds lighter than my LHT was (46cm). That higher quality steel makes a difference in the weight! That was one of my reasons to get a Gunnar - to lower the weight while keeping that day-long comfort.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

It is probably quite a bit lighter. I don't know if a Pacer is significantly lighter than a Long Haul Trucker in a similar size, but my full custom Gunnar (~48cm) is a good 12 pounds lighter than my LHT was (46cm). That higher quality steel makes a difference in the weight! That was one of my reasons to get a Gunnar - to lower the weight while keeping that day-long comfort.

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Those LHTs are porky bikes! My LHT is the smallest size, has nice XT comps on it, 32 spoke wheels, and lightweight racks and it still weighs in close to 30 lbs. It's a real workhorse. But it does ride really nice, especially downhill with a tailwind.

:D

Since several people suggested that I try wider tires on my Dolce for a more comfortable ride, I went online this weekend, read some reviews and picked out a pair of 25s-Continental Gatorskins.

I almost sprang for the Continental Grand Prix 4000 S because the store had them for a decent price, but ultimately decided the Gatorskins would be a good place for me to start. (Tires eventually wear out-if they don't prove to be the right choice, I can buy something else next time around. Picking the wrong bike is a more inconvenient mistake.)

If anyone is looking for tires, check out Westernbikeworks.com; not only did I stumble upon a sale, but received an additional discount for being a new customer-AND a coupon for 15% off my next purchase (within 30 days). I got the Gatorskins for $42.49 each-with free shipping.

I think this is going to help make the Dolce more fun to ride. As for the Surly: I still would like a Cross-Check but somehow managed to talk myself out of a trip to the LBS yesterday. It wasn't easy. After riding with a friend through the woods on packed trails Friday, I have been inspired to ride off-road more. There are several State parks near me that would be fun to explore...(Does N+1 ever end??)