Broken Bike Shop Model?

I was reading yet another inquiry from a new rider who ended up with perhaps a horribly wrong fit/size/style of bike from an online vendor.
Nothing against you, Clarousel. I'm very glad you are considering taking up cycling. It's a fun sport, you can meet lots of friends and gain some great fitness.
I hope you can get the size issues resolved and start riding safely and with joy.
:)

However your and other's posts prompt the question...
I have to wonder what is so broken about the local bike shop model that a new enthusiast with essentially no experience, like Clarousel, is more likely to buy a bike sight unseen online than to visit a shop to pick out a bike.

• Are "we" doing one thing REALLY REALLY bad or many things SORTA bad?
• What's missing?
• What would you like to see change?
• Has it become that the ONLY measure is price and we are fooling ourselves thinking we have more to offer?

I'd love to hear some feedback and your thoughts of a solution.

Yes, I think that the assumption is that online will be cheaper. Another assumption might be that bike shops are for fancy bikes where super fit people who wear spandex go. I know that I kind of felt that way. Another assumption some people make is that they can figure things out on their own, with the help of online resources. Sometimes you need the experts. Whether it is medical, legal or bike shop. :)

I wish bike shops did more beginner stuff, like beginner rides. Sponsoring family fun rides could build up a reputation that bike shops are for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by goldfinch

...
I wish bike shops did more beginner stuff, like beginner rides. Sponsoring family fun rides could build up a reputation that bike shops are for everyone.

---

More REAL beginner stuff, like beginner rides that are really for beginners. I remember being told that they had an easy "no drop" ride...but then they started using terms like "we sweep at 14 mph". It took more questioning on my part to find out that they had a different definition of "no drop" than I did. I STILL don't ride fast enough on an average basis to participate in their slowest of rides...and this is my favorite LBS.

That didn't turn me off of riding, hey, I know I am slow and I've no problem riding by myself. It would, however, make things seem more welcoming to beginners if an LBS did have at least an occasional real beginners ride, and not use fancy terms to someone they know is new. It is an easy trap to fall into.

If I wasn't married to a cyclist, I'm sure it would have been much harder for me to ever get started, largely because I would have thought there was much more difference between me and people in the LBS than there is. I'm too easily intimidated when dealing with people who I perceive to know much more than me or have much more experience than me, though fortunately I'm much less so than when I was younger. Also it's great that you can learn so much (and shop) online, but you don't necessarily know what you're missing when you take that approach to the exclusion of dealing with real live people who might be able to help a lot and save you from making some serious mistakes.

I also think it depends on the bike shop as well. I've been in some really good ones and some really bad ones as well as some in between. We have two locally. One that's been here for a long time and one that opened up this past summer. The new one is actually the kids of the the parents who own the old one. However, the attitude and the way they deal with customers is so very different. The old one will push certain things and do not really listen to what your saying. The new one they really listen and try to fit what you want/need with what they have.

I expect that many people don't realize how important face-to-face service is.

Because everyone grew up just getting on any old bike and riding it. Didn't matter if it was too small or too big (my dad clamped wooden blocks to my Raliegh 20 because I wasn't tall enough and the seat wouldn't go any lower so I could ride). Joe Blow understands seat height but little else about a bike.

So with that experience of riding hand-me-down bikes or your firends bikes, you think it would make sense just to order a bike you like and you can ride it. There's no understanding about the science behind a bike at all. There's no education. I watched heaps of parents buy bikes for their kids or bring in bikes for "bike checks" as part of a annunal kids tri that happens and the state of the bikes and helmjets is bad. Parents just don't understand that the old hand-me down is now dangerous- mkissing grips, worn saddles, no grease on rusty chains, helmet worn on the back of the head... and more.

And it doesn't help that often bike shop people forget that people don't know or even have a hint of this and start bombarding them with questions. Joe Blow had walked in there thinking "oh I pick up a red bike for me" and then is asked "what type of riding" etc and I guess that's off putting. A website doesn't ask you 20 questions before you buy

Another thing I am also a bit shocked at is that some stores have a policy of clearing floor stock first. I meet a girl on a too large Pinarello mid-level model. She had the seat lower, tiny stem and still she was rocking side to side.

She was told this was the smallest frame. Given no option. I ended up convincing her by getting on her bike (and I was taller than her) and showing why it was too big and then making her get on my smaller bike. Total laziness of the bike shop!

Yesterday, I approached by a woman who saw me on my bike and she told me she was thinking about getting a bike for herself but that she thought she was too short to find a bike.

She had never considered going to a bike shop for the reasons that some have listed here -- she was intimidated by all the people in spandex, she didn't really know how to buy a bike, and not really understanding how the shop can really be of a big help.

I think part of the problem is that the shops don't make more activities/rides that are attractive to novice riders. Maybe there isn't an incentive there because a novice rider can easily drop the hobby/sport and never give the shop another thought.

I also think it's the design of the bike shops. There's one here that tries to look like a normal retail store and consequently, I think attracts more types of people, even just casual shoppers. The other bike shops around here are trying to be sleek and modern and end up being intimidating for the average person that just wants to walk in and look around.

As someone who has been in the industry for twenty years AND owns a small shop; it was very interesting to hear all of your replies.;)

With that said, the online business is something that is definitely taking jobs away from your local area... less property taxes are being paid etc...

My shop has always offered events for every ability level and age, although I would also say that quite often people choose not to participate. We've hosted family rides where we wear normal clothing, races, road rides, mountain bike rides, trainer rides... you name it and we've done it. Although there are probably some people who appreciate it and partcipate, others you simply can't "rally" to participate .

One of the issues that I have with online is that in most sales you do not pay state sales tax. Right off the top, your local area is being affected by this and it's a huge impact at not only the brick and morter, but also at the state level. (for those states that have a tax)I'm sure that we have all heard that 68% of all money spent locally stays local. So in an era when we all want more jobs, why is it that we are contributing to something that is hurting all of us?

I think the thing that bothers me the most is that as a society, we look for medical advice, information on building/repairs, and things that it's hard to diagnose over the computer.

Lastly, I realize that there are some shops that do a better job than others, however that is true with all of us here and in all of our professions. I've said this before, if a shop truly wants you business, then they will listen to your suggestions. If you don't say anything, then we truly have no reason to complain.

So the moral to the story is to communicate... talk with your local shop, help others who may be 'first timers', having a bad day or perhaps simply are a bit slower. We are all part of this job solution; and I for one hope that my nephews are left with a better state of the economy than it is right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiwi Stoker

Because everyone grew up just getting on any old bike and riding it.

---

I think that's really the important issue. Once upon a time, I had no idea how important bike fit is -- how would I know that?

I don't know how a bike shop could educate people who see no reason to walk into the shop in the first place!

Honestly, I have never met a bike shop I liked. There may have been parts of some I liked, but not the whole thing. There are a lot of shops here, but basically, as stated by someone else, if I didn't have a DH who is a cyclist (and a racer son at the time I started riding) and a very proficient mechanic, I'd be dead. I would have walked away. Even with DH accompanying me for the first road bike purchase, I got treated like shi*t or ignored. I was aware of all of the "roadie" stuff that goes on in shops because of my DH and son, so I chose to ignore them. And why would I pay full price for the clothes? OK, it's not just the full price, it's the huge mark up, especially at the LBS where I bought my bike. Most of the jerseys there cost $200.00. After spending at least 15K on my 2 bike purchases, I don't even get a discount. And, those referrals DH sent them (at least 10)? No discount for that, either.
Maybe a woman owned shop would be better? I don't know. The LBS I bought my bikes from has a woman manager who has horrible mood swings and a woman mechanic, who is good, but I don't have many dealings with her.
I think it's probably the same for beginners in all sports. I went into the LRS to buy shoes a couple of years ago and although the owner was very nice, when I said I was a cyclist who ran about 3-4 miles 2X a week, I got the hairy eyeball from the group of other runners who had just come in from a run sponsored by the shop.

I agree with ridebikeme is mostly about saving money. Quite to often a customer walks in pick the shop’s brain and with the new acquired knowledge at this shop, turns around and just buys the product from an internet retailer that had a smoking deal.

Let me add one more thing!

I do browse online because I hate going into stores. I just don't like shopping, in general, it's not about bike shops in particular.

One of the things that I don't like about the local shops here is that they don't have prices or a lot of information on bikes on their website. Compare that to an online shop where you can browse and see prices and then, if you're feeling impulsive, you click on "buy now" and whoa! you made a purchase.

I'm sure that it's probably not feasible for local bike shops to have a strong online presence. But I do think that would help.

My local bike stores claim they have no drop rides or beginner rides, but again, they aren't real beginner rides. I had contacted the owner of one (I posted here about it) and supposedly it was a no drop ride, but they dropped us by mile 2. The SAG moped kept up with us for a while to make sure we were okay with a promise to ride with us the following week, and then took off with the rest of the group. :rolleyes:

The store that has a friendly retail space also has workshops (for women, for fixing bikes, for fittings, and more) and is very friendly and open. I like them, except for a couple of things: they don't take American Express and they are relatively far away from me. But they have great sales on clothing (so I buy from them when I can) and their mechanics and staff are generally really friendly.

The store I did buy my bike from is more intimidating and the staff is mixed -- some is really worth their weight in gold, others... not so much. But their prices are high and they don't have as many options. I purchased from them because I like the distance from my house, I liked the bike, and they have a "club" that you join where you get an automatic discount of 15% if you pay $25 per year and you can participate in their "beginner" ride (yeah right).

I have had a number of LBSes, just due to moving around a bit.

No matter how nice and helpful the staff is, it's really intimidating to go into a bike shop as a newbie, doubly so if you don't have a friend or significant other who knows at least something with you. I salute those of you who took it up on your own, because I don't think I could have done it. My Cincy-LBS is a very slick 'corporate' bike shop where people with lots of money and spandex go. And while some of the staff are pretty awesome, some of them make me want to bash my head against a wall.

The LBS where I bought my bike hosts two sets of group rides that are billed as beginner, from either of its locations. One is beginner-friendly on a nice paved bike path. The other is 30 miles in a very hilly area, with cobblestones! I never went on it because I didn't have a car to get there, but my friend did and she said it kicked her butt--and she regularly commuted to campus (with hills involved) by bike.

It's also much harder to comparison shop in a shop because there's no easy way to compare specs except by looking at the bike. Even then, the only places where the componentry levels are obvious is the rear derailleur and maybe the crank arm...and the manufacturers know this. ;)

There's also the price thing. If you look around, you can find a number of bikes for less than LBS prices. (I admit it: I wish I had $600 lying around so that I could have picked up the Terry Symmetry in my size on Bonktown!)

I agree with most of the sentiments here, especially what Owlie posted.

My LBS is also intimidating and if you are not an experienced cyclist, it's hard to get their attention and even harder to ask questions without feeling like a total idiot. They are the biggest bike shop in the area (multiple stores) and are in a very ritzy neighborhood.

There is another small LBS by near me who is wonderful but they don't carry many brands. I only learned about the recently and tend to bring my bikes there for maintenance.

In my area, cycling seems to be a male dominated sport and unfortunately, many male cyslists in my area that I've run into have a very elitist attitude. These cyclists frequent LBS #1 and quite frankly, I hate going in there unless it's empty. They do have rides on weekends but they are not beginner friendly.

My take on it is people trying to get the most bang for their buck, ESPECIALLY in the current economy (I'm guilty of buying most of my bike clothes and running clothes/shoes online, because the stores that I do like to shop at are an hour away and most online retailers have free or cheap shipping and far lower prices).

Also...you don't know what you don't know. Were I not married to a self-professed bike geek I most likely wouldn't have ever bought a good bike (and would totally be missing out). Or I would have just looked for something cheap online. I'd have no clue about component quality or fit.

The only thing I wish our new LBS would get is a wider selection of clothing, but they are new. They've been around for 6 months. On the other hand they do have a layaway plan as they do understand people can't just afford to buy a more expensive bike. They also have a facebook page and their own website. They've also tried to get more involved in the community by offering different classes and having movie nights as well as different lvl rides. For bike clothing we actually drive 2 hours to Raleigh to go to Performance. Now they do have a nice on line presence. I just don't like buying clothing without trying it on first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

My take on it is people trying to get the most bang for their buck, ESPECIALLY in the current economy (I'm guilty of buying most of my bike clothes and running clothes/shoes online, because the stores that I do like to shop at are an hour away and most online retailers have free or cheap shipping and far lower prices).

Also...you don't know what you don't know. Were I not married to a self-professed bike geek I most likely wouldn't have ever bought a good bike (and would totally be missing out). Or I would have just looked for something cheap online. I'd have no clue about component quality or fit.

---

This too. DBF suggested I buy a Giant because a) he had one and loved it, and b) because they're good bang-for-buck. Except that he missed the part where they downgraded all the components between the time he bought his and now. (This was 2009, right after the economy tanked.) Oh, and that fit thing. I didn't know any better, and he only found out after the fact. Live and learn.

Clothing is another biggie. I've never bought much clothing from bike shops, because they don't carry what I like. I realize that men's shorts and jerseys are a far safer bet than women's for the shop; men make up the majority of the consumer base. Speaking of which, I think it's still much harder to go into a bike shop as a woman. It's almost always all men and there's a non-zero chance they treat you like an idiot. I certainly found it intimidating until I learned to speak bike, thanks to TE.

The other thing is that people don't want to put LBS bike-level money into something that they may use for one summer and then have sitting in the garage for the next five.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Owlie

The other thing is that people don't want to put LBS bike-level money into something that they may use for one summer and then have sitting in the garage for the next five.

---

Or if they only plan to ride around the neighborhood for 30-40 minutes once or twice a week.

Several of my co-workers have asked me for advice on buying a bike. Usually, they don't want to spend more than a couple of hundred dollars. I always tell them to check out an LBS anyway, and I direct them to a good one near where they live. Then I tell them at the very least to go to REI, because they have real bike mechanics. I also tell them that a bike that causes pain due to poor fit or never shifts right is a waste of money even if it was cheap.

Also, I have to say that threads like this remind me of how lucky I am. I just do not have the problems at my LBS that many people have.

Hey people buy things without knowing what they are getting into every day. People walk into walmart and buy bike shaped things every day. And for some of them, that $150 purchase is just what they needed. They ride once or twice, then leave it in the dust because they're bored with it or whatever.
Far worst to spend $1000 on that whim purchase. We know they're out there. One of my LBS's occasionally sells a custom bike that is OLD (like 25 years old) that was never ridden. They actually make custom bikes some times for people who are never going to ride the thing. Then the widow brings the bike in 25 years later wondering what it's worth.
The original buyer got an idea that he wanted a custom bike... And then he just forgot about it. It happens.

What I am writing here isn't to negate all the good feedback that is going back and forth on this excellent thread. But I want you to know that bike shops aren't failing as bad as many other businesses are. I am sure SOME are; but in some towns and cities they are flourishing. I have seen a lot more bikes in my town in the last 5 years. And some new bike shops that have lasted more than one year! progress!

I love how this thread is going.

Another issue I have notice, especially in NZ is the openeing and closing of bike shops. There's one particular bike importer who likes to open bike shops here and there, and in 8-12 months time closes them down. Please! How is the average person supposed to create a relationship of trust with a store when they flit off once "plundering" the sales in the area?

And the people who often open stores- well quite a few are former professional or elite level athletes. That doesn't mean they make a good bike shop owner. Basically they are satisfying their ego by being able to surround themselves with people and bikes (that's OK) but only so they can keep on riding the latest and greatest model, participate in the cycling industry and not so much for being a guiding hand for newbies. Their shop rides are for their buddies or to create a "club" around them. And worse if they have no business sense or no person skills. One store I know the owner was too nice, extended too mcuh credit to customers and didn't know how to handle the books. He ended up getting ripped off by the "manager" he employed, his wife took over the books and found out how bad a suitation they were in. Bike shop which was rather good now down the drain. So off DH and I go to find a new store we can build a level of trust in.

And often our cycle clubs are just as bad. When I was running membership of one club and answered people's enquiry emails I tried to be nice, but clear- our club wasn't for beginners. There was no way a new person could join our rides on any old bike, we didn't cater for them. And that's because no one was willing (except DH and I) to forgo their riding goals/training program to help people. You drop off the back- well I have to get home to go for a run, you have a puncture, well that ruins my heart rate zone! Almost everyone was so focussed one themselves it wasn't funny. That's why I loved a Veterans cycle club. Older people are not so goal focussed. Having to go slow to help someone complete a ride isn't the end of everything. The ride was more about being with friends.

We don't make things easy for people to join the cycling community (and I know its the same in running clubs etc), becuase we are often so focussed on ourselves and our goals, and cannot take time out to lend a hand on a a regular basis.

I started comparison shopping online because I'm a tough fit on most "standard" brands and most shops around here only carry one or two of the smaller companies. If I was shopping for cars, I'd do the same thing.

But my experience when I went to look is similar to going to most car dealerships - I just get the feeling of "make her buy something HERE" and "upsell upsell upsell" - when maybe what you're selling isn't actually the best choice for me. I know you make money by selling me things, but if you steer me towards a better fitting bike elsewhere, I'll come back to your store for saddle, pedals, helmet, etc.

I bought both of my current bikes used (craigslist) because I wasn't pressured, no one tried to push me towards something I knew was wrong, and no one tried to force me onto a WSD. I walked out of the Trek Factory Store when a salesguy told me that the women's version of the bike I was trying would fit better...because I'd looked at their bikes before I went in and I knew that the geometry (the reach, in particular) was IDENTICAL for the WSD and gender-neutral bike.

And at the LBS that all of the guys seem to love no one ever looked at me twice, much less offered any help, until I came to them for mechanical work on a bike I'd already bought but that they happened to sell. I could've bought one there, but I guess I didn't look the part when I went to shop. (At least they're pretty awesome now, but they're lucky they got that second chance).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiwi Stoker

Another thing I am also a bit shocked at is that some stores have a policy of clearing floor stock first. I meet a girl on a too large Pinarello mid-level model. She had the seat lower, tiny stem and still she was rocking side to side.

She was told this was the smallest frame. Given no option. I ended up convincing her by getting on her bike (and I was taller than her) and showing why it was too big and then making her get on my smaller bike. Total laziness of the bike shop!

---

Back in 1994 I went to buy my second MTB. The sales dude was suggesting a model equipped with Shimano STX. I noticed a more expensive bike and asked what the difference was. "That one has Deore LX." How is it different, and why would I want it? "It's Deore LX which is more expensive!"

In '95 or '96 I was back at that shop buying some minor item. I asked about getting lower gearing for my bike. "Nope. Can't do that. Your 24x28 gearing is already the lowest possible gearing."

Fast forward to a few years ago...

On eBay I bought a NewOldStock cassette with a 34 tooth low cog and a lightly used Deore LX crank with a 22 tooth chainring. The manufacturing date code on these parts was from ... 1994/95. (Things aren't quite that simple - I would have had to upgrade the STX derailleur on the bike too.) Net result - I rode less because my bike wasn't optimal - and the LBS lost out on a significant parts sale.

I would not buy a bike on line, but everything else, yes.

None of the bike stores around here seem to be doing badly; the one I bought my bikes at is making a nice profit (they do cater to people who can afford boutique label bikes, but also sell Giants and a lot of kid's bikes). The other LBS near me expanded last year, has much more clothing, and now sells home fitness equipment. They also have expanded their x country ski selection, which they have always had.
You know, last year, DH and I went to Harris Cyclery, of legendary fame. We were just beginning our search for custom or semi custom relaxed geometry road bikes that we could put couplers on. I was stunned by the horrible condition of the shop, and even worse, the way the person who helped us was bragging about their new fit system. He didn't know what he was talking about. When I said I was not interested in bar end shifters, it was like a case of reverse discrimination. We ran... maybe they have a lot of parts, but, they do most of that business on line. And maybe it's a good thing, because the shop itself was not nice.
One of the reasons I will buy full price clothing from TE or Terry is because of the focus on meeting women's needs and the community that has grown around both businesses. I've had personal service from both. Still, I look for the sales in both places. DH, on the other hand, never, ever buys bike clothing full price. He doesn't have to; everyone makes and sells men's size medium and puts the items on sale. Half of the clothing companies don't even make their products in women's extra small (PI, for example), so I can't afford to be choosy.

I wouldn't buy a bike online because of fit and service ... and I try not to buy parts online because that's where the LBS makes their profit. (I have my limits ... as when I got my saddle for something like half of MSRP... bad me :mad:) As I understand it, complete bike sales are a LBS's "loss leader" to bring customers in for the parts, service and accessories.

Clothing is another thing. I really prefer to buy local, but I don't live anywhere near a shop that has a decent selection of women's gear, and returning something bought online (TE! TE! TE!) is SO much easier - often if I special order something through a LBS it's entirely nonreturnable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kiwi stoker

And the people who often open stores- well quite a few are former professional or elite level athletes. That doesn't mean they make a good bike shop owner. Basically they are satisfying their ego by being able to surround themselves with people and bikes (that's OK) but only so they can keep on riding the latest and greatest model, participate in the cycling industry and not so much for being a guiding hand for newbies. Their shop rides are for their buddies or to create a "club" around them. And worse if they have no business sense or no person skills.

---

THIS. In St. Louis where there are TONS of bike shops, but I find a lot of them are clubbish like Kiwi says above. Now, I would never think of buying a bike on the internet-- the profit margins on bikes aren't that much anyway, and a lot of times there are good deals to be had at an LBS. I shop ebay for bike clothes-- the selection for women are always pink and flowers, or kind of low end (weirdly-- which I suppose is fine). There's cooler stuff online. I am fortunate to be able to shop around for the best bike shop for my needs. There are a few that are awesome for beginners and I have brought friends to some of those because I know how nice they are, and I know they will spend a lot of time giving these novice riders a friendly introduction into bicycles. They are smart businessmen. They are trying to create a repeat customer. I've been to other shops where they are dismissive if it looks like you aren't shopping for something high end/custom.

My shop is the area juggernaut-- it has three locations and a special Tri/running store, but the people are friendly and accessible from the bottom all the way to the top. They are supportive of all kinds of bike related efforts in the community. They are sponsoring our groundbreaking (at least in this city) high school cycling team. I haven't had to buy a bike in years, so I've only been buying accessories and nicknacks from them for the last four years, but the minute I said I was doing a cross country ride for the American Lung Association they offered to fit and tune my bike up before the trip for free as a donation and then offered to sell raffle tickets for the quilt my mom is donating. To me, this is them building a solid customer relationship, even though they don't really need me. I will certainly be buying my next bike from them.

A subject close to my heart and pocketbook. We closed our 100% LBS in 2010 and converted to a small showroom, minor walk in traffic and primary online sales model. With that said, We do not sell complete Bikes online, a complete bike purchase requires meeting, fitting, riding, adjusting, etc prior to the bike leaving our showroom. However because we are touring,commuting oriented in a town that isn't, we depend on our online sales to survive. We have found our buyers to pretty awesome and we do quite a bit of customer service and educating with our blog and over the phone. We aren't a wholesale store, we still need to pay our own bills and have no desire to be the cheapest, we only sell product we believe in. We just celebrated our one year anniversary and I love our new biz model, we finally have time to get on our own bikes and have fun.

Thank you all so much for your insight and knowledge. :) I'm so happy I posed the question. Very valuable to hear from you all. If you keep posting, I'm sure to keep listening.

Pretty much the only thing I buy online is clothes. I'd prefer not to, but there are no plus sized bike clothes in any bike shop that I know of. Now, someone needs to start catering to me and my many plus sized female friends who bike, they could make good money.

But in Minneapolis, there is a bike shop to fit however you bike or whoever you are. I went to one bike co-op yesterday and was helped by two women. Both were awesome and both gave great advice. One worked on the floor and the other in the shop. I really appreciate that particular shop because of the women there and it caters more to how I bike.

I only had two bikes growing up that I remember. Both were awful, probably because my mom couldn't afford anything fancy. Or they were given to me by a neighbor that didn't ride. My brothers had bikes and they just passed them down as one got to big for it. Sizing? Helmets? Never even came up. My DH said he and his gang of friends spent all day riding around town swapping out bikes and doing tricks.

With the days of getting anything you want online, people are doing that. It's easy, fast, and you don't have to deal with the hassles of sales people following you all over the store like vultures or completely ignoring you. You have the entire shopping mall of your dreams that never closes online at the touch of a key stroke. It's a buyer's dream and a brick store's nightmare.

People also are very visual when it comes to bike. They aren't looking at components. I didn't even know they were that important depending on your bike needs. If you want a red mountain bike, you go online and find the coolest looking red bike you can find and buy it. I've found lots of cool bikes online, like the (homer drool) 6000 dollar 29er tandem mountain bike. Or the 12,000 carbon fiber racing one. Won't be buying either of them any time soon but they are out there if I did.

I buy from my LBS because if something goes wrong, he can fix it or send it back. He will order anything I want if he doesn't have it in stock at a reasonable price. He'll go online to the manufacturer's website and find me several options to choose from. With my LBS, the online bike shopping mall is right at his fingertips and I don't have to guess if something will work.

My LBS had found a way to work with the internet so he makes money and I get the help/guarantees that come with a brick store. It's a perfect match. More brick stores need to see the internet as a huge advantage to their sales to help the consumer instead of fighting it. If you can order it for me, we both win and the states don't have to whine about losing sales tax.

I've found that bike parts are far easier to get from my store as most of the time he isn't stuck on having to order in bulk or having to wait for a large specific amount before purchasing. I get my product in 2-3 days, he puts it on, and I have a warranty that's easy to use if something goes wrong.

Now my local quilt stores...that's a disaster. If I have to wait for her to purchase 500+ dollars in goods before I get my order, I'll buy it online especially if I need to get a project done ASAP. That gets frustrating when you want to buy locally but can't. Then the stores are upset that you went somewhere else and even worse (gasp) went out of state or online. It's not always about sales taxes, it's also about availability.

Should you buy a bike online by yourself? Only if you feel like taking the risks of it not fitting right, knowing how to put it together, and if it's not what you wanted, the pains of shipping it back and working with the store to fix it via the phone or email.

There are some things better bought in a brick store than online. Bikes are one of them.