Living near people or big separation

Ok, let me turn the question around (for those who live in areas with less access to transit, with children...):

If you had a choice, would you want to live closer to people or you like alot of acreage around you to separat yourself from neighbours?

I perceive this as the fundamental difference between more rural folk vs. city folks. For instance, I would not enjoy living 1 km. away from my closest neighbour. I don't like that type of isolation...I actually find it scary.

Maybe my lifestyle by not having a car, gives me that attitude. :confused:

But also I've grown up in a family of 8 people and know how to live fine in tight quarters. Generally speaking I have lived near ok and great neighbours. Some wierd ones. But it is part of urban living.

I prefer living near amenitites ;) Grocery store, post office, schools, parks, beach, shopping, etc.

I have not lived out in the country, but I have lived in a residential suburb. I HATED having to drive everywhere. I felt like I spent all of my time in my car, it was horrible.

I moved back into the "city" with a little apartment right downtown. I had a longer commute to work, but once I was home I never needed to get in the car again.

DH thought he preferred the having acreage and living in the country. I was adamant that I wanted to live in town, we finally found a house we agreed on. It's hard to explain, but the front of the house is in the city and the back of the house has a country feeling (no neighbors behind us, just a hill and a lake).

DH has been converted to city living. He enjoys that its a nice place to run at night with lighted streets/sidewalks, everything is close and within walking and biking distance, friendly neighbors that help out when you need it . . .

For the kids, they have neighbor kids to play with. They can walk to school, friends houses, to the convenience store for a snack. There are 4 playgrounds within a mile radius.

We are fortunate to live in a unique location, a bit of city and then less than 5 miles away are the beautiful shores of Lake Michigan and a state park with miles of hiking.

Specifically on the car issue--I like having my car but I like living in a location where we are not dependent on it :)

The thing that I really can't take about living in town is the light pollution.

I sometimes tell people I'm sensitive to light, but I really think it's the opposite - that I'm one of the lucky few who gets to live away from light pollution for most of the year, so when I'm exposed to it, I'm aware of my body's acute reaction to it, while most people just suffer sleep trouble, depression, high blood pressure, diabetes, weight gain, breast cancer, and all the other health problems linked to disruption of circadian rhythms, and they never connect it to the freakin' street lights shining in their bedroom windows.

If it weren't for street lights and security lights, I'd miss the country, but I could be fully immersed in the joys of living in town. As it is, if I had to choose one, I'd choose the country, but I do appreciate the ability to bike wherever I want to go when I'm staying in town - or walk/take transit when I'm visiting the city.

I lived for several years in a non-bikeable town. That was really the worst of both worlds. Most smaller towns in the USA are like that, I think.

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Originally Posted by limewave

I prefer living near amenitites ;) Grocery store, post office, schools, parks, beach, shopping, etc.

I have not lived out in the country, but I have lived in a residential suburb. I HATED having to drive everywhere. I felt like I spent all of my time in my car, it was horrible.

I moved back into the "city" with a little apartment right downtown. I had a longer commute to work, but once I was home I never needed to get in the car again.

DH thought he preferred the having acreage and living in the country. I was adamant that I wanted to live in town, we finally found a house we agreed on. It's hard to explain, but the front of the house is in the city and the back of the house has a country feeling (no neighbors behind us, just a hill and a lake).

DH has been converted to city living. He enjoys that its a nice place to run at night with lighted streets/sidewalks, everything is close and within walking and biking distance, friendly neighbors that help out when you need it . . .

For the kids, they have neighbor kids to play with. They can walk to school, friends houses, to the convenience store for a snack. There are 4 playgrounds within a mile radius.

We are fortunate to live in a unique location, a bit of city and then less than 5 miles away are the beautiful shores of Lake Michigan and a state park with miles of hiking.

Specifically on the car issue--I like having my car but I like living in a location where we are not dependent on it :)

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I pretty much agree...I'm single and don't have any kids but still feel that living in town is the most practical thing, unless one is going to have a farm and be somewhat self-sufficient. The peace and quiet of living in the country would be nice, but I would not enjoy having to spend a ton of time in the car to do everyday errands. It's nice to have some things within walking/biking distance (including work--the hospital is about 0.6 miles from my apartment). That said, I could not live in a big city like NYC etc.--too many people too close together and too much noise. The town I am in has a population of about 21,000 and has all the everyday amenities, and we also have access to the beach and more rural areas fairly close by (though I wish there were longer hikes closer...the places where one can really cover some distance are all an hour or more away, unless there are any I haven't heard about yet).

For me, the perfect situation was living at a boarding school (one of the coolest ones on earth) that was located in the heart of the Adirondacks on the outskirts of a very sporty town. I had the benefits of living within 200 yards of a number of interesting, active people. I had the benefits of living in mountain heaven, with fresh air and all the playground I could ever want. I had the benefits of Lake Placid, a little slice of culture and fun in the middle of nowhere.

It's pretty much perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if I wound up there again someday.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

If it weren't for street lights and security lights, I'd miss the country, but I could be fully immersed in the joys of living in town. As it is, if I had to choose one, I'd choose the country, but I do appreciate the ability to bike wherever I want to go when I'm staying in town - or walk/take transit when I'm visiting the city.

I lived for several years in a non-bikeable town. That was really the worst of both worlds. Most smaller towns in the USA are like that, I think.

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Agree with everything 100%. DH thinks I am nuts sometimes - I have curtains for our windows for when our neighbors leave their outside light on, and I'll get up and turn off our outside light - which is at the far end of the house from our room - because just that little bit coming through the window at the other end of the house will make me wake a few times during the night. I also insist on low light in the house at night. He's really bad about turning on the big recessed lights - which make the house brighter than day. I think he's finally understanding that when he does that... he can't fall asleep even hours after bedtime.

I prefer country, but need to be a little closer to civilization than we are now. We live in a tiny nothing town, but I am seconds from some of the best country cycling this country has to offer. I want to be closer to Chattanooga for things like, organic groceries, restaurants and "date nights" - currently, that's an hour drive. :( Oh, and closer to jobs.

I would not want to live right in the city. At one point, I thought I would, but if you mean a city like Boston, NYC, etc, no. I can't stand the density of people, noise, etc. There are other cities that are a bit different, that I could maybe live in.
I live in a further out suburb that is considered slightly rural to those who live in the city. I moved here because there are actually 2 "downtown" areas with stores and restaurants, and a commuter train. But, I don't live close enough to walk to any of this, unless it's for a serious 8 mile hike round trip! (it's just under 4 miles). I feel like I have the perfect combination for me, as it feels like I live in the country, yet I am just under 2 miles from a major highway and very close to most things I need (within a 5 mile radius). It's hilly and a great area for cycling and other outdoor activity. We tried to buy a house closer to the shopping area, but it didn't work out. Since I used to live in 2 really more rural suburbs in the area, this feels much closer to Boston (it is by about 10-15 miles) and the fact that there are actually destinations I frequent in my town (coffee shops, restaurants, bakeries, health club) helps.
When we eventually sell this place (5-8 years), we will look for a townhouse/condo within walking distance of preferably West Concord center, as it is a little more down to earth, with lots of artsy type places and it is closer to our former community and friends.

I like having it all ;)

Oslo is probably a small town to most of you. The town itself is easily bikeable, and from most of the residential areas around Oslo you can also bike into town given just a little bit of oomph. The single best thing about it is that it's surrounded by woods, and lies on the coast as well, so the affluent or lucky ones can live by the seaside. We also have decent public transportation, at least if you keep your wits about you when picking where to live.

I spent most of my childhood years in an isolated area, not more than an hours drive out of Oslo, but very sparsely populated, and I would not go back to living that way. We didn't have a car, so we were dependent on the bus which ran at best once an hour, we scarcely had any neighbours and our circle of contacts was just very limited. Any socializing had to be rigorously planned. I wouldn't mind living like that if I had a large family and somewhat more friends and neighbours around, but that degree of isolation I would not choose.

It did leave me with a need to "keep my back free", though. I live right up against the woods surrounding Oslo, and can wander right into them in the course of minutes and be gone for hours, without having to cross a single road, just minor driveways. Living like that makes me happy :) I like having neighbours, and I very much enjoy having large communal green areas where kids play, people walk their dogs, you bump into people you know. But I still need to have one side "free". A park is not the same.

btw, since being car-free has come up - that was a big part of choosing where to live. We wanted close to the woods, not more than about 25 min by public transport/35 minutes by bike to the town centre, and then within our budget of course. Stuck a pin and drew a circle, and narrowed it down.

I could be happy either in a cabin away from everything or in the middle of the city. It's the suburbs I hate. I'm surrounding by people but nothing useful is in walking distance. Except a gas station, which by nature probably needs driven to.

I live in a town of 16,000 people, in a house on 2 acres. My neighbors are close but I still have my privacy. This is just perfect for me. I can't stand living right on top of people.

I'd bike to work in the summer except for the 1000 ft climb in the middle of the ride. I can't face that climb on the ride home after a long day at work.

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I could be happy either in a cabin away from everything or in the middle of the city. It's the suburbs I hate. I'm surrounding by people but nothing useful is in walking distance. Except a gas station, which by nature probably needs driven to.

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Ditto here.

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I like having it all

Oslo is probably a small town to most of you. The town itself is easily bikeable, and from most of the residential areas around Oslo you can also bike into town given just a little bit of oomph.

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Surely, lph you don't think North America is full of urban megacities? :rolleyes: I bet alot of Europeans and Asians perceive huge hunks of North America as the last stop (next to parts of Africa and central Australia) as having more protected large wild (and some dangerous) animals still running around. (That's reality..for Germans at least.)

Yup, I like having it all, the conveniences within a 15 min. or half hr. walk.

And I have for 3 major cities over 1 million. I grew up in a town at the time, when town was 30,000 and we lived downtown at that time too near bus stop. This is in southern Ontario...in 1960's to 1970's.

I actually don't like sleeping in country homes, that's pitch black. I have done so with friends who live in very rural areas. My partner also had a farm when I initially knew him.

Because I don't have children and have lived alone (without any dogs) at different times in life, I really don't want to sleep in a neighbourhood that is totally pitch black and isolated. I don't feel safe. Forget it.

Limewave, I've in lived in homes that have faced water body (creek in middle of downtown) or river just only a few blocks away or better a huge lake /ocean body just 5 kms. away or less. Living downtown or near a major shopping area in 3 big cities. So have been fortunate with parkland, etc. to give the pseudo country feel.

Of course all of this with bike routes running by home or less than .5 km. away.

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I could be happy either in a cabin away from everything or in the middle of the city. It's the suburbs I hate. I'm surrounding by people but nothing useful is in walking distance. Except a gas station, which by nature probably needs driven to.

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This is how I tend to feel, too. I like urban settings a lot, but I'd prefer to live in an urban setting where there is also a fair amount of green space, too. Downtown Indy wasn't ideal for me in that regard, although I otherwise liked living downtown. A city like Portland would be better (for a lot of reasons). But I'm also not one to be particularly chummy with my neighbors--although this is perhaps more of a reflection on having has some really lousy neighbors over the years and would appreciate having some land, too.

How happy I am in my environment has more to do with how like minded the community is than it's size or density. I hate where I live now, not because it's a small town, but because it's an extremely conservative small town lacking in any diversity. Compare that to the smallish town where I went to college that I loved, mostl because it is pretty liberal and diverse. I could be happy in the country if there was some degree of progressiveness there, too.

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I could be happy either in a cabin away from everything or in the middle of the city. It's the suburbs I hate. I'm surrounding by people but nothing useful is in walking distance. Except a gas station, which by nature probably needs driven to.

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I agree with Jess here.
I lived in the center of a 50 acre farm. When the corn was tall, I couldn't see any neighbors, in the winter, I could see their houses but the closest one was 1000 feet away. I LOVED it.

I also love living in the city. As long as I have my postage stamp-sized yard, my OWN turf, I am happy. Not sure if i would like living in a high rise apartment although since D has been in the hospital on the 10th floor, I have REALLY been enjoying the panoramic view!!

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Originally Posted by lph

Oslo is probably a small town to most of you.

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I just looked up the population of Oslo..."small" does NOT describe that! "Wicked big" is more like it (especially when I think about how the biggest city in my state has just a little over 10% of that number of people...wow!). ;) Not a small town by anyone's measurement...well, maybe compared to NYC or something like that. Actually, it's probably similar in size to Boston.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

Surely, lph you don't think North America is full of urban megacities? :rolleyes:

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Not at all. But Norwegians tend to think of Oslo as The Big City. Most visitors don't :D
(eta: Jolt, I think the population listed includes suburbs and residential areas quite far away from the town centre, which is pretty compact. But I get your point :))

Interesting that you mention feeling unsafe in the countryside at night, in the dark. I feel a lot more unsafe in an urban environment at night. Pitch black woods I feel very safe in.

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Originally Posted by lph

Interesting that you mention feeling unsafe in the countryside at night, in the dark. I feel a lot more unsafe in an urban environment at night. Pitch black woods I feel very safe in.

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Same here...nobody is around in the middle of nowhere to cause any trouble! I've spent a couple of nights by myself camping (granted, both occasions were in campgrounds so it's not like there wasn't anybody nearby) and felt perfectly comfortable. I feel most unsafe in the middle of big crowds in the city, even during the day--there's the sense that if you needed to get out of a bad situation, it wouldn't be possible because there are a bunch of other (potentially panicked, violent or just clueless) people and no clear path of escape.

I definitely miss the kind of darkness at night where you can't see your hand stretched out in front of you.

On the other hand, I miss the nights with piercingly bright starlight. I don't get either in St. Louis.

The only time I experienced pure night black and stars galore was on top of Mount Kea in Hawaii where there is an research observatory.

But we were outside to see th whole night sky canopy of stars and multiple constellations. It was truly amazing and riveting. :)

Who would ever have a sky like that often in a residential area?

I understand about feeling threatened in the city but the probability of something happening can be just as real as out on country road with no one to witness anything. In fact there have been several home invasions...in the suburbs for all these cities I've lived ..simply because the homes aren't close to one another and no one is around to hear/see anything during the work week, etc.

The phenomena of gated communities in the U.S. which is much more dominant compared to Canada, reflects that type of perception/reality.

It occurred to me, gated communities in Europe are probably...rare. Though one would have to research this...

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

The only time I experienced pure night black and stars galore was on top of Mount Kea in Hawaii where there is an research observatory.

But we were outside to see th whole night sky canopy of stars and multiple constellations. It was truly amazing and riveting. :)

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That really is an amazing sight :) One I sometimes see in the mountains in winter, but even there rarely.

I'd like to clarify my answer. If I had my way, I'd live somewhere that if it snowed 2 feet, I could either walk (snowshoe?) or cross-country ski to where I wanted to go. So...remote but close enough to a cluster of important places, or near in to a smaller town. I'm imagining Telluride - without the tourists :)

I don't like people who drive in snow like it's nothing. I had three morons try to pull out in front of me this morning - fortunately they just spun their tires and no one actually made it, but you can't cut people off in this weather and expect them to be able to stop on a dime!

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I could be happy either in a cabin away from everything or in the middle of the city. It's the suburbs I hate. I'm surrounding by people but nothing useful is in walking distance. Except a gas station, which by nature probably needs driven to.

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This. Or in my case (and the case where I grew up), there are things within walking distance, but there are no sidewalks. I could walk to the grocery store or the bank (it's about a mile), but they only recently put in sidewalks.
I have lived "in the city" (technically an older Cleveland suburb, but it was spitting distance from downtown). Everything I needed on a daily basis (grocery store, coffee shops (yes, that's necessary), post office, bank, some very good but cheap restaurants) was within walking distance. If I needed anything else (Target, Whole Foods, yarn), it was a short bus trip away. (Cleveland had pretty nice public transit).

Here, however (not helped by the fact that it's a very white-bread area), there are no sidewalks, and while everything I need on a daily basis is in walking distance, there are no sidewalks.

DP likes the benefits of living in/near a city. I think they are ok, but I could do with a lot less people and would prefer to live somewhere more remote or even in Duluth or further up the North Shore in MN. So, our "compromise" of the past 11 years has been to live 15 minutes, by car or bus, from downtown Minneapolis in an inner ring burb that is heavily forested, has no street lights, street parking or sidewalks and has 3 ponds on our "block" - looks more like a gerrymandered congressional district - and lots of wildlife. Yet, we are 5 minutes from a TJs. Also, the biking possibilities from our front door are amazing. We have pretty good spot. I am still hoping for the North Shore for retirement though. :D

I know I'd never be happy living in a big metropolis. I tried that in Boston when I was young and even then, it was a bit much for me (and I was in my partying 20's!). Now? No thank you.

On the other hand, we are currently a bit too far out for my tastes. I love having a little land. I love even more that my neighbors aren't close to us (they have way more land than us), but our 6 month old car already has over 10K miles on it. :( If I could afford enough land to buy privacy closer in to town, I'd do it.

There are a few smaller cities where I would bet that I could be happy. I'd need lots of green spaces, easy commute to work and at least a tiny bit of my own land (postage stamp is fine if it includes dirt!). Portland would work if I actually worked in Portland. Unfortunately, moving there would make my commute to work complete hell, so it's not really a viable option. Boulder, CO was also very cool, but I don't have a job there either. ;)

Oh, and I totally agree about darkness in the country or forest! I walk our yard in the pitch black and it doesn't phase me. Running near my office in the winter dark (even at 5pm) freaks me out.

My small city has it all. I'm really lucky. It has stores and restaurants, nice architecture, parks, beaches, and a few beautiful cycling options, which I'm content riding over and over again. Most of this is driven by tourism, which has its drawbacks, but at this time of the year, it's pretty serene. Neither my bf nor I work in this city, but it's halfway for each of us to our jobs, and he takes public transportation to his, so we get by on one car.

I wouldn't go back to big city life. It was too stressful, and I wouldn't be happy cycling in that kind of traffic. DBF would go back in a heartbeat. It's been a big loss to him that we moved. He especially misses the entertainment, and I admit, being able to walk or subway to the see our favorite bands, or the ballet, was really great.

I like small cities too. Moved here to Belize from Chapel Hill, NC, and I think if I were to move back to the US at some point, it would probably be right back to Chapel Hill/Carrboro, NC. It's progressive, there's plenty to do, good restaurants, good cycling infrastructure, fantastic medical facilities, a great bus system (free -- thanks to UNC), and decent weather.

But for now, I'm loving Belize, the "small city" of San Pedro on Ambergris Caye, and living car-free. :)

I am in the hunt for nicely isolated towns with great amenities that are surrounded by outdoor playground. Lake Placid was like that, I'll be looking for it again some day, particularly in the northeast. Brattleboro, VT strikes me as a place like that, so does Bethel, Maine, Pittsfield, Massachusetts, Hanover, NH, etc etc. Le sigh.

I like St. Louis, it has everything I'd want in a city, but I don't like being so far away from the mountains and it's a long way to get out somewhere truly peaceful and isolated (1 hour drive +)

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Originally Posted by Reesha

I am in the hunt for nicely isolated towns with great amenities that are surrounded by outdoor playground. Lake Placid was like that, I'll be looking for it again some day, particularly in the northeast. Brattleboro, VT strikes me as a place like that, so does Bethel, Maine, Pittsfield, Massachusetts, Hanover, NH, etc etc. Le sigh.

I like St. Louis, it has everything I'd want in a city, but I don't like being so far away from the mountains and it's a long way to get out somewhere truly peaceful and isolated (1 hour drive +)

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Moab?

If I won the lottery tomorrow I would find a wonderful old small farm someplace in the foothills of the mountains of NH or VT. Then I would find a loft kind of apartment with a terrace, or big balcony, in a big city.
I love being away from everybody, but I also love all the things there are to do in a city. The main thing I need is privacy and a space outdoors I where I can grow some plants.
But, until my lucky ticket shows up, I’ll make do with my half an acre with lots of bushes growing along the perimeter. :)

Personally, I like being around people. It is the TYPE of people that is the issue, ha ha. I live in the Austin, TX area (great biking routes) but I am also a mother and there are some parts of town which give me the heebie jeebies. However, I get frightened pretty easily since I'm small, ha ha, when my friend moved into a....well....not so nice part of town I ended up downloading a personal safety app created by an Austinite called real alert and believe it nor not it helps with cycling as well. I feel a little better but I am still a scaredy cat to the core. I'd rather have GOOD people to be around :) but I think a lot of you are right. Being around the necessities play a big part.

I live in a town of 3500 people. Nearest "real" stores are an hour or so to Lincoln or Omaha. I like living in a small town, but miss the conveniences of a city and the opportunities that my kids don't have here. If ours was more pedestrian and bike friendly it would be nicer.

What I will never do is live in gated community hell again. Texas was like that. Neighborhood Nazi organizations is what we called them. It was a prison with beautiful homes, 6 foot privacy fences, fake people and plenty of fire ants. I'd rather deal with a trashed house next door than face fines for my grass and snitches for neighbors.

I told DH when we were looking for houses I wanted a town with a gas station, a real grocery store (not an IGA rip-you-off store) and decent schools.

My kids hate it here and I don't blame them. There isn't anything to do and I won't let them "troll" around town out of boredom.

It wasn't until I went to Newark for a flight to England that I realized how big a city really is. Seeing the New York City skyline blew me away as it was so stunningly beautiful. I've lived near St. Louis, Austin, and San Antonio, but this was completely different. In England, we were in Newcastle and it was a crush of people everywhere. I loved the excitement and energy. Part of me would love that kind of living but then I look up at the sky at night w/o the glare of lights and decide I like living where I'm at.

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What I will never do is live in gated community hell again. Texas was like that. Neighborhood Nazi organizations is what we called them. It was a prison with beautiful homes, 6 foot privacy fences, fake people and plenty of fire ants. I'd rather deal with a trashed house next door than face fines for my grass and snitches for neighbors.

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Wow.....and sad.

Where we live I think we have the best of both worlds, as we live within driving distance of a big city (Orlando), and live in a small community that's bordered on the east, north, and west sides by state land. To the west about 150 feet is the Wekiva River. Our community is about 70 homes, older community - no gates except the ones to keep the livestock from wandering off!

The only thing I'd like is for the Seminole County bike path to extend a little further so I could ride to it more easily. Other than that, can't complain too much, except in the summer when it's hotter than blazes and steamy, too. Right now the weather is perfect.

Reminds me of Arizona. I didn't live in a gated community, but the 6 foot block walls created artificial boundaries between neighbors. One year, when I took my older son trick or treating, we rang the bell of the people who lived behind us. It was a newer house than ours and after 4 years, I finally saw who lived inside.
Here I can choose to engage with my neighbors or not. We have 2 acre lots, far back from the street, but most of the houses are on shared driveways, so there has to be some communication, about snow removal, at least. We are very lucky; we are actually friends with our driveway neighbors, who are very much like us, i.e. not people who have lived in Concord forever. The others, not so much. Pat (my neighbor) peer pressured me into attending the neighborhood "holiday tea" for women this Friday. Since neither of us can stand these people, we decided to have a glass of wine before we walk down the street.

I prefer living just outside of large cities. I grew up in northeast Ohio (Warren, which is located between Cleveland and Pittsburgh and was a city of around 50,000 when I was growing up). After college I moved to Charlotte, NC, well a town just outside of Charlotte. I loved living there. Whatever I wanted or needed was close by, yea had to drive to it, but not a long drive to anything. What I will never do again is live in an HOA, horrible, horrible, horrible. Totally agree with the neighborhood Nazi analogy. Last year we moved to Jacksonville, NC. It's got around 80,000 people, although a good portion of that military. I really like where we bought our home at. Nice neighborhood where the houses are not right on top of each other and no HOA, yet still close to grocery stores, drug stores, ect. What I don't like is I still have to drive either 1 hr to Wilmington or 2 hrs to Raleigh for certain things that they don't have here.

I should clarify (lest people have certain perceptions), I grew up for the first 20 years in life in a city that was at the time 30,000. (Now it's over 100,000, twinned with another city around the same size.)

But we lived downtown --15 min. walk to a shopping mall, + shops on its main street and less than a 10 min. walk to local transit bus which we did use too. I used it as a teenager occasionally ...and more often later.

What I like about the town was that it was an established town with a defined core that developed over the decades, not a fake kind of homogenous, boring centre.

I do have great memories of growing up in that area in those years. We lived on a street off the main street with older homes, large porches (but our house was the smallest and poorest), all different character. There was (and still is) a heritage house that is marked as a tourist attraction just 1/2 block away. Treed streets, etc.

So I definitely, even living in high rise buildings, want to see green space/mature trees close by + far away from window.

We were the poorest family on the street, yet some of our neighbours were professors, bank manager, ...even 1 block down was a local university president. There were some hard working immigrant families also (German, Austrian, etc.) Not a long street.

In retrospect, it was the best environment to raise "inner city" kids. Actually I resent the term, inner city ...it has all sorts of negative contations...that could have been applied to our family. Yet given the neighbourhood I grew up, it certainly was an atypical blend of socio-economic classes. Healthy environment for kids. We were extremely lucky.

Small world, Koronin. Was born in Warren, OH, and spent the first 4 years of my life in Burton, OH. Don't remember much of the area from that time, but all my siblings recall it with fondness (I'm the youngest). My eldest brother moved back to the Cleveland area this year when he retired.