Cyclists are stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, and rude.

It was a dark and foggy morning.

Knot was walking her dog on the sidewalk. In the dark and foggy distance she saw what looked like another pedestrian on the sidewalk. At least 30 yards away. No problem.

But no! Moments later she saw a glint of street light reflecting off handlebars. It was a BIKE, and now only a couple yards away! Knot and her dog were right in its path!

She called out, "Whoa! Didn't see you without a light! Sorry!" and hustled her dog off the sidewalk and out of the bike's way.

Cyclist ninja-girl proceeded to snark at Knot as she rode away.

Knot does not enjoy being called interesting names at quarter to seven in the morning, especially not when she has just abandoned the sidewalk and apologized to the aforementioned ninja-girl cyclist.

Knot was now feeling a bit of a cranky self-righteous passive-aggressive b*tch herself. Her faith in the general goodness of all bike-kind was slightly frayed.

Part 2

It was a twilit pre-sunrise morning, with fog just starting to thin out.

Knot was driving to work on a high-speed arterial with cars parked on the shoulders. Suddenly she sees a cyclist (dressed in dark colors with no lights, just like Snarky Girl) weaving in and out around the parked cars. Riding one-handed. Because he was carrying a coffee in his left hand.

There is a traffic-calmed bicycle boulevard one block to the west.

Knot was now VERY cranky.

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Knot is a cyclist. Knot thinks bicycles are the second greatest invention in the universe. (After beer) If Knot (self-annointed patron saint of pedalling) got cranky this morning, imagine how Joe Blow feels when these events occur in his life. Joe Blow becomes very unhappy. Joe Blow does not feel the velo love.

Moral of the Story: Please don't be stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, or rude. That kind of stuff turns people against ALL cyclists.

:) Well done.

You live closer to the U district now, don't you?

Now if I could just convince people to start thinking the same way about all drivers when they see a driver weaving around.... not stopping at stop signs... driving with a coffee, phone, etc in one hand.....

Why is it that one cyclists behavior reflects on all cyclists, but a bad driver is more of less ignored....

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Originally Posted by salsabike

You live closer to the U district now, don't you?

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Yes.

It's a different world.
(now I know why my coworkers gripe about cyclists)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Yes.

It's a different world.
(now I know why my coworkers gripe about cyclists)

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I know. Different culture there---true for pedestrian behavior on campus as well; it can get scary,dangerous, unpredictable.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Knot is a cyclist. Knot thinks bicycles are the second greatest invention in the universe. (After beer) If Knot (self-annointed patron saint of pedalling) got cranky this morning, imagine how Joe Blow feels when these events occur in his life. Joe Blow becomes very unhappy. Joe Blow does not feel the velo love.

Moral of the Story: Please don't be stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, or rude. That kind of stuff turns people against ALL cyclists.

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+1 million (right down to the beer part)

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Originally Posted by Eden

Now if I could just convince people to start thinking the same way about all drivers when they see a driver weaving around.... not stopping at stop signs... driving with a coffee, phone, etc in one hand.....

Why is it that one cyclists behavior reflects on all cyclists, but a bad driver is more of less ignored....

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This is something I need to point out to people every chance I can.

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Originally Posted by Eden

Why is it that one cyclists behavior reflects on all cyclists, but a bad driver is more of less ignored....

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Because cyclists are these strange, unusual people who go out there and choose to not drive, like everyone normal. Driving is like breathing, ya know, why would you not do that? ;)

Nice story, Knot!

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Originally Posted by Eden

Now if I could just convince people to start thinking the same way about all drivers when they see a driver weaving around.... not stopping at stop signs... driving with a coffee, phone, etc in one hand.....

Why is it that one cyclists behavior reflects on all cyclists, but a bad driver is more of less ignored....

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+1.

I read a forum thread once from my old home town that basically said, "until all cyclists follow the rules I am going to treat them like law breakers/scofflaws and the self-righteous/entitled people they are."

And I thought... I bet you speed in your car, and run stop signs (it's a run if you don't do a complete 3 second stop!) and break the rules of the road in your car... so does this give me permission to treat you like you're a lawbreak/scofflaw and self-righteous/entitled driver? I think so! But I won't, haha.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

This is something I need to point out to people every chance I can.

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+1,000,000

Motorists are stupid, dangerous, irresponsible, and rude.

And as long as they generalize about my mode of transportation, I will generalize about their mode of transportation.
Oh, and by the way. I drive, too. I even drive an SUV from time to time. ;)

I say something (often to the point of scaring my DH) to a lot of bad drivers I see.
I now drive in 2 cities where a large portion of the population learned to drive in other countries. Not saying the rules are different in other places, but the proportion of absolutely outrageous and dangerous driving incidents I have seen is just scary. One of the places I drive in (and where my actual office is) is a city where people have been cited for insurance scams by "causing" accidents, both in cars and as pedestrians. People just walk out in the street, head down, hood over head, into the traffic, and go. I stop... yea, they may be waiting for the lady in the BMW to hit them, but I am as courteous as I can be. I see 3-5 people run red lights after the light has changed.
So, I hate bad drivers as much as I dislike rude cyclists.

Good story!

Why is it that one cyclists behavior reflects on all cyclists, but a bad driver is more of less ignored....[/QUOTE]

Good point and I agree with the others, I think I will bring this up when others point out what wrong with cyclists and how they should be banned from the roads. Not to start an argument but to turn it around and show how it feels on the other side. A lot of us have a hard time understanding what we don't know but can do a little better relating it to things we do know.

Very Good post, Knot.

Bad drivers are why I started commuting by bike! I think if I had to drive with traffic during rush hour, I'd probably die of a heart attack by 35. People are just so entitled in their car-bubbles. It's ok to run the red light, because you've waited too long at the light. It's ok to not allow people to merge, because your life is more important than theirs. It's ok to pull out in front of someone, because you're in a bigger hurry and they can slow down. It's ok to just brake and practically STOP in the left lane because you realized you need to turn right but you have to cross 4 lanes of traffic first (this one absolutely baffles me). And god forbid, don't pay any attention to the "exit only" signs over your lane on the interstate and drive over the median without looking at the last second because you didn't mean to exit there.

The saga as old as the invention of the bike, great post. SO I always struggle with being the bike "police" I don't yell at bike riders when I am driving but when I too am riding I always find myself debating if I should say something, especially to riders going against traffic, then don't get me started on parents riding with children going the wrong way in traffic. But if I truly say I am a biking advocate than I should be letting people know they are breaking the law and gambling not only with their life but mine as well. Maybe the university cycling club could start handing out reflective sticky tape as riders come onto campus on these dark fall mornings :)

we tend to scold idiot cyclists more from on the bike than in the car. Like that "ninja cyclist" that we see in the morning (before dawn) who comes down swift on the wrong side of the street, often turning from the opposite direction's turn lane into oncoming traffic without any lights. I've seen him 4 times total and donald screamed at him.. He then got on the correct side of the road and sped up...

Um, people do generalize about bad drivers all the time.

Have you not heard of 'women drivers'? Or 'Masshole drivers'? Or even worse because it's two stereotypes "Asian women drivers'? People don't stereotype ALL drivers because they'd be including themselves. The only people who stereotype ALL drivers are those who don't drive. Everyone else has to pick a class that they are not a part of in order to effectively bash.

Same for cyclists. We don't stereotype all cyclists because we'd be including ourselves, so we pick on a class like 'triathletes', 'racer types', or 'DUI bikers' or whatever.

It's human nature to exclude yourself from the group you are speaking against in some way shape or form.


I do like your post though, Knott and I agree, if that pissed you off, can you imagine what it would do to the non-cyclist?

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

Um, people do generalize about bad drivers all the time.

Have you not heard of 'women drivers'? Or 'Masshole drivers'? Or even worse because it's two stereotypes "Asian women drivers'? People don't stereotype ALL drivers because they'd be including themselves. The only people who stereotype ALL drivers are those who don't drive. Everyone else has to pick a class that they are not a part of in order to effectively bash.

Same for cyclists. We don't stereotype all cyclists because we'd be including ourselves, so we pick on a class like 'triathletes', 'racer types', or 'DUI bikers' or whatever.

It's human nature to exclude yourself from the group you are speaking against in some way shape or form.


I do like your post though, Knott and I agree, if that pissed you off, can you imagine what it would do to the non-cyclist?

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Well said.

I didn't say anything about any stereotypes.

I spoke specifically about 2 people on bikes who brought negativity into my universe.

My daughter got hit by a bicyclist a couple weeks ago, when she & I were walking to school in the evening. He was riding on the sidewalk and he honked but didn't give us time to react. She jumped off the sidewalk at the same time that he swerved to the right to go around us.

This was one year almost exactly since she was on a bicycle and got hit by a truck.

My opinion of the driver of that truck, and the driver of that bicycle, are very similar. But at least the bicyclist who hit her didn't put her in the hospital. A gash on the leg is a lot better than a skull fracture.

And maybe it's the lower potential for injury that ultimately makes people take bikes less seriously. If it was a car driving on the sidewalk, you'd both have called 911 as soon as you were safe, and the cops would've been there with lights and sirens. As it was, it didn't even occur to you, right? - and if you had called about a bicycle on the sidewalk before a collision happened, the dispatcher would've laughed you off the phone.

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Originally Posted by Melalvai

My daughter got hit by a bicyclist a couple weeks ago, when she & I were walking to school in the evening. He was riding on the sidewalk and he honked but didn't give us time to react. She jumped off the sidewalk at the same time that he swerved to the right to go around us.

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Don't get me started on bikes on the sidewalk. :mad: He honked, or rang a bell? Bikes on the sidewalk are to pedestrians what cars are to us on the road.

There are routes where I make a decision to be on the sidewalk. So I make a decision to be a ped and walk the bike. :)

When I'm walking I "take the lane" for oncoming cyclists. Dude, I don't know your bike handling skills, I don't know if you can avoid me or navigate between an opening door on my right and the freight elevator on my left. I don't know which way you will go.

I do know that if needed I can get out of your way but as a ped I'd prefer that you yield or get off and walk.

Kids, elderly cyclists I see downtown, invisible cyclists I understand. They may not know the "rules of the road". But for the majority I see riding on the sidewalk because of that one way street before your work, c'mon. Walk or ride the extra block around on the street.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

And maybe it's the lower potential for injury that ultimately makes people take bikes less seriously. If it was a car driving on the sidewalk, you'd both have called 911 as soon as you were safe, and the cops would've been there with lights and sirens. As it was, it didn't even occur to you, right? - and if you had called about a bicycle on the sidewalk before a collision happened, the dispatcher would've laughed you off the phone.

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You really think so huh...... a few years ago someone drove their car right down the sidewalk - for about 1/2 a block - in front of my house because there was traffic and they didn't want to wait....

There were no lights, no sirens, no cops..... no one got in trouble....

I think the big difference is that even if people do stereotype some drivers, no one takes a look at a bad driver in an SUV and then turns around and says, SUV's shouldn't be allowed on the road and means it seriously - in fact unless the behavior is *seriously* egregious it is completely ignored, but if a cyclist slides through a stop sign people get all up in arms about how all cyclists are law breakers and how we shouldn't even be allowed to use the roads and they mean it... (the same people who will scream about cyclists sliding through stops probably don't even realize they do it in their cars *all of the time* 99% of people I see around here never fully stop or stop in the crosswalk...)

There is poor judgment behavior all over the place - some intentional, some due to ignorance, some due to selfishness.

<flashback warning>Intentional - waaaaay back in grade school, sibs and I walked to school. 1 kid was always harassing kids walking while on his bike. One day, saw him coming, turned, grabbed his handlebars and forced him onto the grass of someone's front yard (yep, he fell). He stopped harassing others after that.<end flashback>

Woman riding on sidewalk, neighbor street with stop sign, crossed road without a stop sign in my direction without slowing down or barely even looking. I swerved left and yelled, "Nice stop!" (more for my own venting than any notion it did any good).

I see people jumping up to the sidewalk all the time to avoid a long line of cars where there is no room to ride up along on the right side.

I see people ignore pedestrians in crosswalks (of course, vehicle drivers do, too). I try to stop for people waiting to cross (signalling of course, which gets vehicles to stop, and sometimes other cyclists will and sometimes they blow by me).

I see great judgment and considerate riding and driving, too, though and while I might more easily remember the crappy stuff, I believe I see more nice behavior in reality.

What about sidewalks were cycling is actually encouraged? We have many sidewalks with signs that say "BIKE ROUTE" or "BIKES USE SIDEWALK OR TRAFFIC LANE" (the latter due to a bike lane ending before an intersection). On those, I go much slower and softly ring my bell when necessary. I don't use horns or make loud, startling noises.

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Originally Posted by Eden

I think the big difference is that even if people do stereotype some drivers, no one takes a look at a bad driver in an SUV and then turns around and says, SUV's shouldn't be allowed on the road and means it seriously -

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Of course not, because SUV's don't cause accidents, people do. I would bet money that if the person driving that SUV was different from the person making the observation, they WOULD say something like "old people shouldn't be allowed to drive" or "young people shouldn't be allowed to drive" or whatever...

Again, people don't generalize about their own class unless for some reason they hate their own class or they are making a joke.

I think the answer to the bike hatred is to get more people on bikes. Then people will be more likely to blame the specific cyclist who IS to blame and not assign it to an entire form of transportation (that they likely know nothing about).


And Knott - I was directing my commentary about people stereotyping car drivers just like they do bike riders at the general audience. Not at you. I didn't mean to imply that you stereotyped in your original post.

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

Of course not, because SUVs don't cause accidents, people do.

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Except that news stories are ordinarily written to absolve the driver and place responsibility on the car. The usual phraseology is something like: "Dymwhit was driving her 2009 Mazda on Straightflatwide Road when it crossed the median and struck the 2007 Chevrolet driven by N.O. Cent."

I'm not sure what my point is. :rolleyes: I'm just especially ticked off that Ben Sollee had to cancel most of his current tour because Florida roads are unsafe. Just, bah.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Except that news stories are ordinarily written to absolve the driver and place responsibility on the car. The usual phraseology is something like: "Dymwhit was driving her 2009 Mazda on Straightflatwide Road when it crossed the median and struck the 2007 Chevrolet driven by N.O. Cent."

I'm not sure what my point is. :rolleyes: I'm just especially ticked off that Ben Sollee had to cancel most of his current tour because Florida roads are unsafe. Just, bah.

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That's true! I wonder if it's a legal thing since the driver is 'innocent until proven guilty'?