"Scootering" my bike

As I've mentioned here before, I start riding with my butt on the saddle. That is how I've rolled from the beginning because it was the only way I could persuade my body to do it :cool: :o

I learned this weekend's mountain biking camping trip that I REALLY need to learn how to at least "scooter" my bike to start it, even if I can't start in a more traditional way. If I don't then I will start having significant problems getting started when I graduate to more advanced trails, and it is likely already giving me a problem.

It is a mental think, and I KNOW it. I understand the concept, but when it comes to doing it my body just freezes.

Am I the only one with this problem? I assume it is a fear of falling...which frankly I shouldn't have any more as often as I've fallen on the trails :rolleyes:

So, one of my goals this week is to take one of my bikes, probably the mountain bike, out to some grass or parking lot and work on this. I've tried this before and failed...

When you say "scootering" your bike do you mean one foot on the pedal at the bottom of the stroke and using the free foot pushing on the ground like you would on a scooter? I think that's what you mean. Sometimes if I'm in certain situations I do that. For example I was coming to a stop light and basically had almost stopped, but had to cross train tracks to get to the actual line where I had to finally stop, so I stopped & put my foot down and continued to roll scootering my bike over the tracks to it's final stop.
Have you tried starting from a stop in the "more traditional way"? It sounds like you have. Keep working....the body can learn and you can get over any fears. You will gain confidence just like with any new motor skill. ;)

I just can't fathom how this works for you.

Your saddle must be super low.

Have you seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5SjH...eature=related

I watched it without sound, so I hope the advice is good.

Veronica

I almost always start with my butt on the saddle, but that's b/c I like to rest sitting on it, rather than standing over the bike. I have long (err...big) feet so it's not too hard for me to touch one toe down and keep the other foot clipped in while still sitting.

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

I almost always start with my butt on the saddle, but that's b/c I like to rest sitting on it, rather than standing over the bike. I have long (err...big) feet so it's not too hard for me to touch one toe down and keep the other foot clipped in while still sitting.

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I have long feet, and I've proper leg extension on my road bike. I need to raise it a bit on my Mtb bike but have to learn a new way to start it. I've seen the videos, the problem is doing it...

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Originally Posted by Veronica

I just can't fathom how this works for you.

Your saddle must be super low.

Have you seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5SjH...eature=related

I watched it without sound, so I hope the advice is good.

Veronica

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I find they way she stops is odd... the foot that goes on the ground does so from the top of the stroke. I usually unclip my left foot at the bottom of the stroke and that's the one that goes on the ground.

I learned during a race on Saturday that I can just throw my foot over the top tube, land on the pedal, clip in, and GO! With the opposite foot clipped in first than usual, no less! But I have no idea if I can do it not under pressure :)

So I have no worthwhile advice. But it might help if people are chasing you :p

I also cannot imagine starting from sitting in the saddle? I begin like the person in the video, however I'm not sure if I stop at the top or bottom of my pedal stroke, hmmm, I'll have to pay attention next ride.

I know there are many many ways to mount a bike. When I was a kid I would run next to it for a couple of steps and jump on. I have a friend who starts off the bike, gets it into motion with one foot/leg then throws her leg over it all in kind of one motion. I did this when I was a kid too but can't quite imagine doing it now. I remember watching the "cooler" big kids do it and when I learned how to I was thrilled.

I think you can learn other ways when you want to, just takes a lot of practice and determination.

Oh, starting in the saddle is easy! I usually lean a little to the right with my weight on my right foot, left foot clipped in at the top of the stroke, and just push down on the left while I push off a little with the right. Boom, you're going.

I had to practice starting a lot before I felt in traffic. Probably you just need practice.

Is your saddle very low? I'm not sure how you can start with your butt on the saddle if your saddle is where it needs to be.

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Originally Posted by PamNY

Is your saddle very low? I'm not sure how you can start with your butt on the saddle if your saddle is where it needs to be.

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Not sure if that's me or Catrin, but both of mine are the right height. It helps if you have a size 10 foot. I can touch both tippytoes to the ground at once if I really want to, though it makes my foot cramp.

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Originally Posted by PamNY

I had to practice starting a lot before I felt in traffic. Probably you just need practice.

Is your saddle very low? I'm not sure how you can start with your butt on the saddle if your saddle is where it needs to be.

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My saddle is perfect on my road bike - this is my custom bike that was designed for me and I've proper leg extension and knee angle on that bike. My foot is barely on the ground but it works - where there is a will there is a way :) It may have partially to do with my proportions, I don't know.

Of course my mountain bike has a much higher bottom bracket, so it it is a different story. I need to learn another way of doing it before it gets higher - or just break down and get a remote control seatpost (NOT) :)

I have no problem starting either bike, but my current method makes it impossible to start on an incline. This is more of an issue with the mountain bike... I actually want to learn how to scooter it as it will be helpful to me in several situations.

I did look at the video - as I said I do understand the concept, it is just getting past that block of doing it. I also unclip at the top of my pedal stroke - FOR ME this is more stable than unclipping at the bottom of my pedal stroke.

Maybe try this -
Engage both your brakes.
Stand over your bike, one foot on the pedal (usually the left foot). Pedal position for this pedal up, but not at 12 o clock, more at 10 or 9, if you'd look at it from the side.
Keep your brakes engaged.
Now push of your other foot and put weight on the foot on the pedal. You can do it just for a very short time and put your foot back on the ground. If you practice, you can stand on the pedal for quite a long time, balancing, so you are not in a hurry.

If you feel secure doing this, you can release your brakes, and all you have to do now is push down on the foot to get your bike going.

Imagine the pedal you are standing on is the first step of a ladder, it's the same movement.

Hmm, I also start with my left foot on the ground and my butt on my seat. Post-proper bike fit and all. When I am stopped however, my toe just barely grazes the ground. Still, I have more power starting already on the seat. The only time I 'scooter' the bike is when a light catches me by surprised and I've had my left foot flat on the ground, butt off the seat.

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Originally Posted by Susan

Maybe try this -
Engage both your brakes.
Stand over your bike, one foot on the pedal (usually the left foot). Pedal position for this pedal up, but not at 12 o clock, more at 10 or 9, if you'd look at it from the side.
Keep your brakes engaged.
Now push of your other foot and put weight on the foot on the pedal. You can do it just for a very short time and put your foot back on the ground. If you practice, you can stand on the pedal for quite a long time, balancing, so you are not in a hurry.

If you feel secure doing this, you can release your brakes, and all you have to do now is push down on the foot to get your bike going.

Imagine the pedal you are standing on is the first step of a ladder, it's the same movement.

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I see what you are saying, practice first with my brakes engaged just to get a feel for it, I will give this a shot. I think when I've tried this in the past it felt so scary-unstable that my body or brain (or both) just decided "nope" :o

I think if I can figure out the scootering part, then the rest of it (getting in the saddle) will come naturally.

I rode with my personal trainer and his wife Saturday, they are both avid mountain bikers. She rode in front of me, he stayed behind and coached me. With his help, and some pushing, I was able to ride all of a trail that I've not been able to ride in the past - had a mental problem with the rocky portions and the bits with a drop-off at the side. I have been chipping away at that trail, but it took riding with someone who knows how to motivate me to get me over the scary bits. Now I know I can do it ;)

It is his strong opinion that my current starting position is really going to limit me, which is a good incentive to finally deal with it.

yes, I can see how this would be a problem. I always WANTED to be able to sit on my seat and have my foot on the ground. Wah!
Can you scooter your bike with your butt on the seat? It might be a way to get used to scootering. You also might try sitting on the bar. Uncomfortable, but might help to learn scooter that way. Third idea might be to try starting with your other foot first and retrain your body and mind for the entire process.
Good luck.

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

Oh, starting in the saddle is easy! I usually lean a little to the right with my weight on my right foot, left foot clipped in at the top of the stroke, and just push down on the left while I push off a little with the right. Boom, you're going.

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I see. But no can do it, I'm all torso and no legs. My inseam is in the middle teens.

sheesh. i don't know HOW i do it. I just know i do it ungracefully.

I don't think scootering will help you get started on inclines. You will not have enough momentum.

Find a big flat grassy field and practice until you can get started like in the video.

I used to have problems getting started and clipping in on an incline, but I'm able to do it now with very little trouble. I pretty much do what's in the video.

1. Make sure you're in an easy gear.
2. Clip in with one foot and position that foot at about 2:00 (just past the top of the pedal stroke).
3. Start pedaling with that foot.
4. At the same time, sit your butt on the saddle. This makes you very stable.
5. Clip in with the other foot and off you go.
6. If you have trouble clipping in with the other foot, that's okay, because you're sitting down which helps your balance a lot. Just keep pedaling once or twice around with the foot that is clipped in, helped by the other foot if possible, and try again.

Once you can do this on flat ground, try it on a slight incline, then a bit more of an incline, etc.

Trust me, you can do it. Stop thinking about all the reasons why you can't, because you can.

Ditto what ny biker said. Don't make excuses for something you want to learn. Is there a reason you don't want to learn this? I am not trying to be a know it all or bossy or anything mean. As you know it's sometime difficult to express well in writing. So I am trying to encourage you. Just go do it an have fun mountain biking!

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I see what you are saying, practice first with my brakes engaged just to get a feel for it, I will give this a shot. I think when I've tried this in the past it felt so scary-unstable that my body or brain (or both) just decided "nope" :o

I think if I can figure out the scootering part, then the rest of it (getting in the saddle) will come naturally.

I rode with my personal trainer and his wife Saturday, they are both avid mountain bikers. She rode in front of me, he stayed behind and coached me. With his help, and some pushing, I was able to ride all of a trail that I've not been able to ride in the past - had a mental problem with the rocky portions and the bits with a drop-off at the side. I have been chipping away at that trail, but it took riding with someone who knows how to motivate me to get me over the scary bits. Now I know I can do it ;)

It is his strong opinion that my current starting position is really going to limit me, which is a good incentive to finally deal with it.

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If you do it right, there is no need to scooter. Your weight on the front pedal is enough to get you started (if it isn't, use a smaller gear).
Even if you think of it as unstable, generally it is less so than standing on your tipitoes while sitting on your saddle.
Strange enough, steep inclines are the only place where I need to start sitting on my saddle because you need the weight on the back wheel, or it will slip.
Still it will help if you can get started out of the saddle, so don't let this discourage you, there are plenty of places where you will need this skill.

Actually scootering will help me on the trails, like when I am going around a really tight hairpin curve - helps me from having to get all the way off the bike to walk it, or when I start to stall out :o

I think part of my problem with starting in a more traditional fashion is that I LIKE starting with my butt on the saddle. It doesn't help that I've full leg extension on my Gunnar even though I can do this...but I really need to learn to do this for my mountain biking, so I will!

I did it, well, sort of :o However I DID it! Not the scootering thing, but the stair-step mounting method. Not fully, but I got most of the way there. The Gunnar is so well fitted to me and works so well for starting from the saddle that I wasn't successful with that bike. Basically because when I am standing there with my right foot on the pedal at 10:00 and left foot on the ground, the nose of my saddle is already under my butt. I am still amazed that I get proper knee angle/extension/KOPS on that bike byt I do. I did manage to "scooter" it once.

The saddle on the mountain bike is a bit higher, though not high enough. I took someone's suggestion and, while keeping my brakes firmly engaged, I put my right foot on the pedal at 10:00 or so and just jumped up - brakes still engaged so I wouldn't go anywhere. I did this a few times - which must have looked odd to anyone watching (what IS that crazy old woman doing?)

Ok, that worked so it was time to let go of the brakes...and found that the hardest thing I've ever done on my mountain bike :rolleyes: Here I am beating the fear of the edge and rolling over rocky patches on the trail and I can't let go of the brakes to start the bike - that is just plain silly and I got mad at myself.

It took a few false starts, but was basically successful :) I also tried the same position but leaning the bike a bit so that my inner thigh was touching the saddle but not at a crazy angle - that worked better.

Thanks for your encouragement and I think I am on my way to beating this :) Practice, practice, practice!

See? We knew you had it in you! ;) Seriously though, new skills just take practice. Don't be hard on yourself. This is a new thing for you and with continued practice this motor skill will become habit and you won't even have to think about it. Nice job.

I watched that video, and yes, that is how I start on my bike. I've never had an issue starting, but I absolutely cannot start on even a small incline. After ten years, I have given up and pray for green lights! I end up scootering across quite a few intersections, looking like a dweeb. I know I have the strength, but I fail almost every time, on an incline. I know lots of alternate routes. Some of it is in my head; on Saturday I was stopped at a light on an incline in an unfamiliar place with bad drivers. I had to scoot across a rather large intersection, which slowed me so much, my 2 slower riding friends were far ahead! I was able to pass them and catch up to DH once I got throughout he intersection, but the next day when I had to go through the same place and the light was red, I actually stopped way back, where the ground was still level.

Crankin, when you scoot across, I assume your pedals are down?

Do most of you start on a mountain bike facing downhill like that? I hate when I can't get that second foot clipped in but need to stand up on the pedals. Scares the bejeebus out of me. How do you start on downhills, Catrin?

Yay Catrin! Good going!

I wonder if you just hold one brake if it would be easier to let go?

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Originally Posted by jessmarimba

Do most of you start on a mountain bike facing downhill like that? I hate when I can't get that second foot clipped in but need to stand up on the pedals. Scares the bejeebus out of me. How do you start on downhills, Catrin?

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Until now I've started with my right foot on the pedal and butt on saddle. My brakes are engaged until I get my body situated, then I let off the brakes while pushing forward with my left foot - as the bike gets going I get the left foot on the pedal and go...

If there is a little flat spot at the top of the hill, I actually prefer to start there but of course that isn't always an option. I CAN start uphill this way if it isn't too steep, but if I can walk it a few feet to get to a flat or downhill bit then I will do that.

Red - I tried that and it was even harder to let go - I just need to practice, and practice and...

I also need to figure out the difference in how it feels between an almost-stall that I can power out of and a real stall so I can get my foot on the ground a split second before falling over ;) This is body awareness I think, my trainer is adding things to help me with this...after all, it isn't like I am clipped in or anything!

When I scoot across, my left foot is unclipped and doing the scootering and I *think* my right foot, which is still clipped in, is kind of almost completely down. The whole thing is kind of ridiculous, though.
I had one of these intersections (with a light) on my old commute, and it almost stopped me from commuting, after I moved. It's a t intersection, so not super dangerous, but I ended up leaving for work so early, that I actually (shhh, don't tell on me) went through the red light, as there were often no cars at 6:15 AM. Sometimes, I could start off fine, but now, I often dread this spot, as I am usually in it with traffic. This is also why I hate left turns that occur at the top of an incline that doesn't flatten out.

I've actually mastered starting from a stop while seated...and my saddle is definitely not low. My right foot is the foot that I always unclip and it touches the ground with my toes. If the stoplight is not unusually long, I'm fine with this method and I can take off with relative ease as long as I remember to gear down into an easier starting gear. If the light is long, then I will often place my entire foot on the ground, which in turn, forces me off the saddle with my left foot still clipped in. Sometimes, if I'm stopped at a light and there is a curb nearby...I will rest my unclipped right foot on the curb and start off from there.